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06-05-2020, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelbean
Thanks for the information. I do have it cataloged in my accumulation as a "Post War M&P."
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As an additional thought, it is really best to think about the Victory not as a separate gun, but simply a continuation of the same M&P through the war years. The different finish, stocks, and swivel of the Victory were peripherals. This is also reflected in the factory all through Victory production never calling the gun anything other than .38 M&P.
The M&P is the only model which has that continuity. All others experienced a hiatus and it makes sense to talk about pre-war vs. post-war parts.
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06-05-2020, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
Can you tell us if there are any markings on the left side topstrap, such as "U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D" or "U.S. NAVY"?
Also, are there any flaming ordnance bombs stamped on the revolver such as the one seen on in the butt pic I have provided? (The flaming ordnance bomb is to the left of the "V" on the example I have provided a pic of.)
Dale
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There are no markings on either side of the topstrap.
There is a stamp of the flame and very top arc of the bomb shown in your pic. It is located on the butt, to left of the swivel. the whole serial no. is to the right of the swivel.
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06-06-2020, 10:57 PM
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Add to data base. V749985, converted to .22Rf by Parker-Hale, London. New 6 in Bbl. , adjustable sights , non S&W stocks, Merchon grip adapter British proofs. Ed.
Last edited by opoefc; 06-07-2020 at 04:09 PM.
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06-07-2020, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc
Add to data base. V7749985 Ed.
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Thanks, Ed. However, it appears that the serial number has at least one too many digits in it. Can you take another look at it, please?
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06-07-2020, 04:25 PM
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Got it, Ed. Thank you.
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06-08-2020, 01:51 AM
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I picked up a Victory revolver late last year. Its serial number is V110017. The top strap is marked U.S. NAVY. The cylinder is marked with this number as well as the underside of the barrel, underside of the extractor star and the right grip.
The left side of the grip frame has a 0. There are two 5s on it. One 5 has a 0 or o struck over its lower part.
The right side of the grip frame has a punch mark and what looks to be a flaming bomb on its side. There is a L and a 6 or a B. The is something that also looks like an upside down T.
The Yoke has a 5 and 10 separated from it and assembly number of 59723. The yoke frame area has a 5 and the assembly number 59723.
I wanted to add this to the database or see if it is already on it. Any ideas on when it shipped and where it may have originally been shipped. to?
Thank you.
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06-08-2020, 08:45 AM
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V110017 probably shipped around September-October 1942. The closest SN I have listed is V109432 which shipped on 9/28/42. As to where it was first shipped, about all that can be said was to some Navy supply depot. Navy guns were marked with the "U. S. NAVY" property stamp until about SN V265xxx.
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06-08-2020, 05:21 PM
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Feel free to add to the data base.Feel free to educate me as its my first Victory model.
It came with what I believe is the original brown holster,large US stamp and stamped 1943 on the back.
Roy dates it to Jan.1943
.38 S&W special cartridge on the right side of the 4" barrel.
serial # V 438367 Butt,under barrel,cylinder
lanyard in place
original walnut grips
small P upper left of strap
V P and maybe C (maybe s) rear of cylinder in addition to the serial number.
greyish parkerized finish overall very nice condition.Any information is greatly appreciated.I have a lot of Smith and colts however I know pretty much zilch on the fine victory models.THANKS in advance!!
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06-08-2020, 09:33 PM
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"Roy dates it to Jan.1943 38 S&W special cartridge on the right side of the 4" barrel. serial # V 438367 Butt,under barrel,cylinder"
He may have said that, but 1/43 seems to be much too early for that SN. Most of them on my list with SNs in the same neighborhood shipped around October 1943. The highest SN I see for a 1/43 shipment is around V 239xxx. See: http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/v...and_wesson.htm
Last edited by DWalt; 06-08-2020 at 09:35 PM.
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06-08-2020, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyb
....
It came with what I believe is the original brown holster,large US stamp and stamped 1943 on the back.
Roy dates it to Jan.1943
......
small P upper left of strap
V P and maybe C (maybe s) rear of cylinder in addition to the serial number.
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I saw where Roy said that and was a bit nonplussed. I agree with DWalt that this is hard to reconcile with our available data.
In addition, by your description your gun shows the P proofs on cylinder and left frame which were not applied in those locations until late 1943.
You don‘t mention any topstrap property stamping. If there isn‘t one, the gun was most likely a DSC contract gun shipped to a civilian end user, and it‘s less likely that the military holster you have came with it from the war.
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06-08-2020, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
I saw where Roy said that and was a bit nonplussed. I agree with DWalt that this is hard to reconcile with our available data.
In addition, by your description your gun shows the P proofs on cylinder and left frame which were not applied in those locations until late 1943.
You don‘t mention any topstrap property stamping. If there isn‘t one, the gun was most likely a DSC contract gun shipped to a civilian end user, and it‘s less likely that the military holster you have came with it from the war.
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there are no topstrap markings...I did locate the ordinance bomb on the butt,next to the V
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06-08-2020, 10:48 PM
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Hello KennyB:
Thanks for providing the information on your revolver for the Database. From the Database I would estimate that your revolver V438367 likely shipped from the factory in the November, 1943 time frame.
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Charlie Flick
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06-08-2020, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ordnanceguy
Hello KennyB:
Thanks for providing the information on your revolver for the Database. From the Database I would estimate that your revolver V438367 likely shipped from the factory in the November, 1943 time frame.
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Charlie,Thanks so much sir..and to all that have information.We are all so fortunate to have a forum such as this one!
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06-10-2020, 05:47 PM
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U.S. Navy Victory Model for Data Base
I believe this is a U.S. Navy order Victory Model the Serial is:
V200929 and it has the stamping "U.S. NAVY" on the left side of the top strap.
Serial in all the correct places except stocks. Although they are the correct type stock, they are replacements with no numbers.
On the right grip frame there are stampings that I haven't seen a lot: "1161", R and a square stamp (both 1 mm in size), at the heel is the stamp of a diamond shape and at the top of the back strap under the grip is the Letter "V".
Otherwise seems a standard victory model with what seems to be a Black Magic-style finish.
Of course it is in .38 S&W SPECIAL.
Thanks.
Last edited by grendelbean; 06-10-2020 at 05:48 PM.
Reason: spelling
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06-11-2020, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelbean
I believe this is a U.S. Navy order Victory Model the Serial is:
V200929 and it has the stamping "U.S. NAVY" on the left side of the top strap.
Serial in all the correct places except stocks. Although they are the correct type stock, they are replacements with no numbers.
On the right grip frame there are stampings that I haven't seen a lot: "1161", R and a square stamp (both 1 mm in size), at the heel is the stamp of a diamond shape and at the top of the back strap under the grip is the Letter "V".
Otherwise seems a standard victory model with what seems to be a Black Magic-style finish.
Of course it is in .38 S&W SPECIAL.
Thanks.
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After thinking more about the grip frame stampings I wonder if they mean the gun was refinished at the factory in November 1961? That from the Diamond stamped on the heel and the "1161" stamped on the toe of the left side of the grip strap.
This may not be an unreasonable assumption, as I know they were still in use after 1961. I was issued a Victory Model in 1963 as a Naval Aviator, was issued another one (2" barrel) when I first got to Vietnam on the Naval Intelligence Staff, and finally had to qualify with a 4" Victory Model in 1973 when first assigned to the Naval Investigatiave Service Office in New York. So - a Victory Model being refinished and reissued in 1961 doesn't seem too far fetched. Can anyone, who actually knows, add some real knowledge?
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06-11-2020, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelbean
After thinking more about the grip frame stampings I wonder if they mean the gun was refinished at the factory in November 1961? That from the Diamond stamped on the heel and the "1161" stamped on the toe of the left side of the grip strap.
This may not be an unreasonable assumption, as I know they were still in use after 1961. I was issued a Victory Model in 1963 as a Naval Aviator, was issued another one (2" barrel) when I first got to Vietnam on the Naval Intelligence Staff, and finally had to qualify with a 4" Victory Model in 1973 when first assigned to the Naval Investigatiave Service Office in New York. So - a Victory Model being refinished and reissued in 1961 doesn't seem too far fetched. Can anyone, who actually knows, add some real knowledge?
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Pics of the example and markings in question would help greatly.
Sounds like you have much firsthand experience with the Victory model. Would you happen to have any pics of yourself with any of them while you were in the Navy?
You know we love pics of Victory models in actual use!
Dale
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06-11-2020, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelbean
After thinking more about the grip frame stampings I wonder if they mean the gun was refinished at the factory in November 1961? That from the Diamond stamped on the heel and the "1161" stamped on the toe of the left side of the grip strap.
.... So - a Victory Model being refinished and reissued in 1961 doesn't seem too far fetched. Can anyone, who actually knows, add some real knowledge?
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Stranger things have happened. But I doubt very much that the Navy would have bothered.
I could envision a collector having the factory recondition his Victory. The un-numbered stocks would fit with that. Back in 1961 the S&W shop might have been flexible enough to take such jobs. You should ask Roy behind the SWCA curtain and maybe have Bill Cross run the serial.
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06-11-2020, 11:36 AM
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I too am curious about the possible S&W rework markings. I have always heard that S&W would not do rework on Victory models, but I kinda took that as an absolute with regards to Victory models in civilian ownership.
Surely S&W wouldn't turn down refurbishment rework on a large enough batch from the Government/Navy...…...especially if Navy fliers still used them extensively post-WWII? (I still think that there would have been gobs of them still floating around in Navy supply/armory inventories so that actually having to have S&W repair/refurbish any of them would be a bit unusual and/or unnecessary.)
It does bring up a very interesting topic with regards to possible factory rework/refurbishment government contract(s) pertaining to the Victory model. You would think if it was truly a large need it would have been performed at an arsenal or armory level similar to what happened with the M1917 revolvers...…..but I've never really heard of either large scale factory refurbishment or arsenal refurbishment for Victory models for the govt/military.
Could it simply be it was easier for the smaller unit level to simply send Victory revolvers back to S&W as the need arose, versus trying to get a repair/replacement internally within the Navy supply chain? (Assuming S&W would even work on them?) It all seems a bit unusual to me, but heck I'm always surprised when it comes to "never say never".
Definitely much food for thought and actual data supporting either would be greatly appreciated!
Dale
Last edited by tenntex32; 06-11-2020 at 11:44 AM.
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06-11-2020, 11:45 AM
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Here is another one to add, picked it up about a year ago. V1913xx 38. SW with a 5” bbl, flaming bomb and GHD on butt. Made in USA on right side and a large S&W logo on side plate. All matching numbers, Smith & Wesson on left side of bbl. and 38 s&w ctr on right side, address and patient date on the top.
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06-11-2020, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
I too am curious about the possible S&W rework markings. I have always heard that S&W would not do rework on Victory models, but I kinda took that as an absolute with regards to Victory models in civilian ownership.
Surely S&W wouldn't turn down refurbishment rework on a large enough batch from the Government/Navy...…...especially if Navy fliers still used them extensively post-WWII. (I still think that there would have been gobs of them still floating around in Navy supply/armory inventories so that actually having to have S&W repair/refurbish any of them would be a bit unusual and/or unnecessary.)
It does bring up a very interesting topic with regards to possible factory rework/refurbishment government contract(s) pertaining to the Victory model. You would think if it was truly a large need it would have been performed at an arsenal or armory level similar to what happened with the M1917 revolvers...…..but I've never really heard of either factory refurbishment or arsenal refurbishment for Victory models for the govt/military.
Definitely much food for thought and actual data supporting either would be greatly appreciated!
Dale
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My assumption was that if refurbishment of Victories had been required, at least in any quantity, they would have been sent to one of the military arsenals where that sort of work was done routinely rather than back to S&W.
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06-11-2020, 11:59 AM
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Dale:
You pretty much hit all the points why I don’t think this is a Navy job if (and that’s still an IF) this 11 61 should indeed be a rework date.
The Navy had oodles of them; they transferred guns to the Air Force, the National Park Service and other federal departments, and lots were dumped as surplus starting in the 1960s. Many are still in great shape without any potential rework markings. It would make little sense to spend money on factory reconditioning this late.
The other thing is that it is basically a Sasquatch issue: If a military refurbishment contract existed in 1961, we would have evidence by now. Maybe Charlie can speak to this, but I don’t think we do.
There is one factory rework contract which I’m sure you are aware of: 40,000 Navy guns in May 1945, to include the installation of the hammer block.
By the way, S&W had a policy against refinishing Victorys in a different finish. But I do not believe they flat out refused to work on them post-war.
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06-11-2020, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
My assumption was that if refurbishment of Victories had been required, at least in any quantity, they would have been sent to one of the military arsenals where that sort of work was done routinely rather than back to S&W.
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I agree, especially if on a large enough scale. That's why I'm curious about the smaller unit level possibly sending onesies and twosies back to the factory if that was a simpler approach......assuming S&W would do the work.
Hence why I want to see those markings on the possible factory reworked Victory. If they truly are factory rework markings then a SWHF letter would show whether or not it was reworked for a military or civilian owner.....yes?
Maybe we'll see those markings soon.
Dale
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06-11-2020, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
There is one factory rework contract which I’m sure you are aware of: 40,000 Navy guns in May 1945, to include the installation of the hammer block.
By the way, S&W had a policy against refinishing Victorys in a different finish. But I do not believe they flat out refused to work on them post-war.
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This brings up a couple of good points.
We know the "S" was added to the V prefix on the Victory models getting the new style hammer block towards the end of the war production. Did those revolvers that were "reworked" to get the new hammer block safety receive any added rework symbols and date codes as well? I haven't heard of such, other than the "S" being added, but alas I do not own one.
The other point, if S&W would do rework on Victory model examples (but not refinish work) how come we don't see many Victory model examples with rework symbols and date codes, after all there were tons of them unleashed onto the civilian surplus market? Maybe I have seen one or two over the years and I have simply forgotten, or maybe you have seen several examples of such and can correct me if I am greatly mistaken on this point? If you have pics of factory rework symbols and date codes on Victory revolvers that would be helpful.
Dale
Last edited by tenntex32; 06-11-2020 at 12:22 PM.
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06-11-2020, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
Pics of the example and markings in question would help greatly.
Sounds like you have much firsthand experience with the Victory model. Would you happen to have any pics of yourself with any of them while you were in the Navy?
You know we love pics of Victory models in actual use!
Dale
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I probably have given the wrong impression of experience with the in-service use of the Victory Models: The one issued to fly with came with six rounds of tracer - to use as a signalling device if you had to become separated from the aircraft. The one in Vietnam I immediately turned-in for a 1911 .45, which is what I carried for the whole time over there. The revolver I had to qualify with in New York stayed with the armorer in the range after I shot the qualification course - I never saw it again. I was only trying to make the point that the Victorys were still in active service and use at least all the way to 1973. Sorry to give the wrong impression. I don't know much at all and am trying to learn.
Sorry, no pictures. Wish I had some made, but never did. Thanks for the interest.
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06-11-2020, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
.... Did those revolvers that were "reworked" to get the new hammer block safety receive any added rework symbols and date codes as well? ....
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My understanding is that the Victorys on that contract were refurbished to “as new” standard, mechanical overhaul, new stampings, new finish, new ordnance inspection, the works.
I am not aware of rework dates on the grip frame, and I haven’t got one to check. I do have a pre-Victory which was shipped to the DSC in 1/42, thus unstamped, but went back to the factory at some point after late 1943 but before the adoption of the hammer block, because it has a complete set of G.H.D. ordnance/property stampings which can only have been applied at the factory. It has no other rework marks.
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06-11-2020, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelbean
I probably have given the wrong impression of experience with the in-service use of the Victory Models: The one issued to fly with came with six rounds of tracer - to use as a signalling device if you had to become separated from the aircraft. The one in Vietnam I immediately turned-in for a 1911 .45, which is what I carried for the whole time over there. The revolver I had to qualify with in New York stayed with the armorer in the range after I shot the qualification course - I never saw it again. I was only trying to make the point that the Victorys were still in active service and use at least all the way to 1973. Sorry to give the wrong impression. I don't know much at all and am trying to learn.
Sorry, no pictures. Wish I had some made, but never did. Thanks for the interest.
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No worries, I was just hopeful another pic of a Victory in actual use was going to surface. The fact that you did use them occasionally during your service has me green as hell though.
I would see our Marine helo pilots wearing them occasionally when I was aboard the USS Wasp in the early nineties. I just remember seeing them as old smooth gripped revolvers back then. (I didn't know anything about Victory revolvers then and had no way of knowing they were a WWII era item. Pity.)
I have heard/read that some helo pilots preferred the Victory over the 1911 due to them being lighter and less in-the-way when working the helo flight controls. In my military era I would think they would have preferred the higher capacity M9, or even a 1911. It may have simply been a numbers game and they used what they had available for them. The Marine Corps rarely threw anything away if it still had a shred of serviceability left in it.
Dale
Last edited by tenntex32; 06-11-2020 at 12:54 PM.
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06-11-2020, 01:15 PM
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Here are some pictures of the grip frame stampings on Navy Victory Model V200292. I should have included them before. Better late than never I suppose.
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06-11-2020, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelbean
Here are some pictures of the grip frame stampings on Navy Victory Model V200292. I should have included them before. Better late than never I suppose.
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I know I am asking a lot, and it is a bit of a stretch, but can you rule out the 4-digit butt number "1161" being the same as the assembly number stamped on the frame/yoke mating areas? (Just to eliminate someone adding the assembly number to the grip frame for some silly reason?)
With the diamond symbol and the location of the "1161" stamp I am leaning very strongly towards it being a rework date code.
Dale
Last edited by tenntex32; 06-11-2020 at 01:40 PM.
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06-11-2020, 02:56 PM
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I'd agree, it probably was returned to S&W for service work of some kind in 11/1961
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06-11-2020, 05:27 PM
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Navy Victory Model V200929
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
I know I am asking a lot, and it is a bit of a stretch, but can you rule out the 4-digit butt number "1161" being the same as the assembly number stamped on the frame/yoke mating areas? (Just to eliminate someone adding the assembly number to the grip frame for some silly reason?)
With the diamond symbol and the location of the "1161" stamp I am leaning very strongly towards it being a rework date code.
Dale
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No match there. The assembly number on the yoke and on the frame at the yoke is "48045" Good thought though.
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06-11-2020, 05:36 PM
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Grendelbean:
I would reiterate my previous suggestion. Let’s stop the guessing game. Since you are a SWCA member, post that photo of the 1161 in the “ask Roy” sub-forum and see whether he thinks this is a rework date.
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06-11-2020, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
Grendelbean:
I would reiterate my previous suggestion. Let’s stop the guessing game. Since you are a SWCA member, post that photo of the 1161 in the “ask Roy” sub-forum and see whether he thinks this is a rework date.
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I can't see it being anything else but a rework date, especially with the diamond symbol. Now I want to know what was done to it by them.
Dale
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06-12-2020, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjen
Here is another one to add, picked it up about a year ago. V1913xx 38. SW with a 5” bbl, flaming bomb and GHD on butt. Made in USA on right side and a large S&W logo on side plate. All matching numbers, Smith & Wesson on left side of bbl. and 38 s&w ctr on right side, address and patient date on the top.
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Need the complete serial number to add to the database.
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06-12-2020, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KEN L
Need the complete serial number to add to the database.
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sr# 191321 it also has UNITED STATES PROPERTY on left side of top strap
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06-12-2020, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
Grendelbean:
I would reiterate my previous suggestion. Let’s stop the guessing game. Since you are a SWCA member, post that photo of the 1161 in the “ask Roy” sub-forum and see whether he thinks this is a rework date.
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Done.... Thanks for the prod.
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06-12-2020, 08:37 PM
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What did I just buy?
I purchased what was supposed to be an S&W Victory .38 Special with the serial number (per the paperwork) of V931991. That does not seem to be possible from what I am reading here and reading in the Bible.
I don't have possession yet and won't for another week or two, but can anyone help with this mystery?
Methinks something is screwy here.
++++++++++
Solved! See my post below.
Last edited by TTSH; 06-13-2020 at 05:13 PM.
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06-12-2020, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH
I purchased what was supposed to be an S&W Victory .38 Special with the serial number (per the paperwork) of V931991. That does not seem to be possible from what I am reading here and reading in the Bible.
I don't have possession yet and won't for another week or two, but can anyone help with this mystery?
Methinks something is screwy here.
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Most likely it is a pre-Victory with Victory style finish and plain uncheckered stocks if the serial number you have provided is correct. (Then most likely it won't have a "V" in the serial number.)
Here is my pre-Victory example with red letter U.S. Navy markings...………(As you can see there is no "V" with the actual serial number of 985033.)
From a collectability standpoint they made far fewer pre-Victory wartime finish examples than actual V-prefixed Victory examples, although I doubt many collectors would affix much of a premium, if any, due to such. If it has any U.S. NAVY markings it usually would command a bit more.
I like them and generally clump them in with the actual V-prefixed Victory revolvers that came about after pre-Victory s/n 999,999 as they have the similar wartime finish and plain uncheckered stocks.
Can you provide a link with pics for the example you are purchasing?
Dale
Last edited by tenntex32; 06-12-2020 at 10:01 PM.
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06-12-2020, 09:30 PM
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SWCA Member Absent Comrade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH
I purchased what was supposed to be an S&W Victory .38 Special with the serial number (per the paperwork) of V931991....
Methinks something is screwy here.
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Indeed, as described it can’t be.
Either it is a pre-Victory as Dale suggests and has no legitimate V-prefix.
Or they misread the first digit which can be no higher that 8 for a Victory, but must actually be lower than that here since only a 0 or 1 could follow an 8.
Or it has only five digits and they accidentally doubled the second 9.
Or something is indeed fishy.
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06-13-2020, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
Most likely it is a pre-Victory with Victory style finish and plain uncheckered stocks if the serial number you have provided is correct. (Then most likely it won't have a "V" in the serial number.)
Here is my pre-Victory example with red letter U.S. Navy markings...………(As you can see there is no "V" with the actual serial number of 985033.)
From a collectability standpoint they made far fewer pre-Victory wartime finish examples than actual V-prefixed Victory examples, although I doubt many collectors would affix much of a premium, if any, due to such. If it has any U.S. NAVY markings it usually would command a bit more.
I like them and generally clump them in with the actual V-prefixed Victory revolvers that came about after pre-Victory s/n 999,999 as they have the similar wartime finish and plain uncheckered stocks.
Can you provide a link with pics for the example you are purchasing?
Dale
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Thanks Dale. Unless I am losing my mind (which is actually quite possible at my advanced age), there was a "V" in the serial number. It's the first thing I checked to make sure it was a 'real' Victory and not some refinished 4" M&P made up with a lanyard ring to look like a Victory. Where I failed miserably was not recording the entire serial number with my own eyes and heading home to check it out before buying... something I almost always do when dealing with an older S&W revolver.
No pics as of right now. It wasn't an on-line purchase.
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06-13-2020, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
Indeed, as described it can’t be.
Either it is a pre-Victory as Dale suggests and has no legitimate V-prefix.
Or they misread the first digit which can be no higher that 8 for a Victory, but must actually be lower than that here since only a 0 or 1 could follow an 8.
Or it has only five digits and they accidentally doubled the second 9.
Or something is indeed fishy.
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Yep. Something is wrong somewhere. The dealer is highly reputable (we've done business before) and will give me my money back in a heartbeat if it turns out not to be a 'real' Victory or has had its serial number altered or is otherwise fraudulent in any way (e.g., refinished, lanyard ring added, etc.).
Or it might just be that he read the serial number wrong. I'll find out later today.
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06-13-2020, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH
Yep. Something is wrong somewhere. The dealer is highly reputable (we've done business before) and will give me my money back in a heartbeat if it turns out not to be a 'real' Victory or has had its serial number altered or is otherwise fraudulent in any way (e.g., refinished, lanyard ring added, etc.).
Or it might just be that he read the serial number wrong. I'll find out later today.
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Keep us updated, and like I said if it happens to be a pre-Victory and is in original factory condition I would accept it as they made fewer of them. Then I would continue looking for an actual V-prefix Victory as there are plenty of them out there.
That is assuming you could live with having both.
Dale
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06-13-2020, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
By the way, S&W had a policy against refinishing Victorys in a different finish. But I do not believe they flat out refused to work on them post-war.
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I found this digging through some of my old Victory stuff and it seems to support your statement with regarding to S&W only refusing to refinish them. Looks like they also didn't want to refinish their Model 28, and a few others as well.
This may have been posted by a forum member, in this very thread somewhere, and possibly even by you, so my apologies if that is the case!
Dale
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06-13-2020, 10:51 AM
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SWCA Member Absent Comrade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
......
This may have been posted by a forum member, in this very thread somewhere, and possibly even by you, so my apologies if that is the case!
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Yep. That’s what I was remembering. I think I still have that snip somewhere. But I’m not the owner. Lee posted it a few years ago.
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06-13-2020, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
Keep us updated, and like I said if it happens to be a pre-Victory and is in original factory condition I would accept it as they made fewer of them. Then I would continue looking for an actual V-prefix Victory as there are plenty of them out there.
That is assuming you could live with having both.
Dale
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As it turned out, the explanation is as simple as simple explanations get: The selling dealer wrote down the wrong serial number on my receipt. The correct serial number is V431991, not V931991 per my receipt.
That makes me feel a whole lot better.
Thank you gentlemen for helping!
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06-13-2020, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH
As it turned out, the explanation is as simple as simple explanations get: The selling dealer wrote down the wrong serial number on my receipt. The correct serial number is V431991, not V931991 per my receipt.
That makes me feel a whole lot better.
Thank you gentlemen for helping!
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You're welcome.
Now pay the picture tax!
Dale
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06-13-2020, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
You're welcome.
Now pay the picture tax!
Dale
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Oh, I will... just as soon as it is in my hands.
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06-14-2020, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
I found this digging through some of my old Victory stuff and it seems to support your statement with regarding to S&W only refusing to refinish them. Looks like they also didn't want to refinish their Model 28, and a few others as well.
This may have been posted by a forum member, in this very thread somewhere, and possibly even by you, so my apologies if that is the case!
Dale
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Hey Dale,
Maybe I’m wrong, but what I understand is that S&W don’t change the finish on Victories (turn black magic in nickel for example), not they don’t refinish them.
__________________
French Pollywog
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06-14-2020, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelbean
Done.... Thanks for the prod.
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Please, keep us updated
__________________
French Pollywog
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06-14-2020, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Smith
Please, keep us updated
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Roy kindly gave his opinion the Navy Victory Model was indeed refinished at the factory in November 1961. This Victory was refinished for an individual collector, as has been previously suggested and pointed out. An advertisement of the time, provided by another member, shows S&W did refinish for individuals on a single-gun basis - for about $16.50. Victory Models were refinished in the original finish only, not changed to another kind of finish. All this knowledge from others in the forum and is respectfully appreciated. I begin to feel I am learning something about these great pieces of history.
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06-14-2020, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Smith
Hey Dale,
Maybe I’m wrong, but what I understand is that S&W don’t change the finish on Victories (turn black magic in nickel for example), not they don’t refinish them.
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It may have had something to do with them wanting to sell more new commercial revolvers after WWII versus making the many Victory models look more like a commercial example.
Then again, maybe they felt the courser finish of the Victory model was only suitable for refinishing only back in the original wartime style finish as grendelbean has referenced.
Maybe someone with access to internal S&W information/documents can clarify. I do remember someone stating that part of S&W's Victory revolver contract with the U.S. Government had a provision for them not to be sold as surplus back onto the civilian sales market as so not disrupt S&W's commercial sales which is what S&W felt happened after WWI with the many M1917 examples that "somehow" became available.
I would love to see more actual documentation with regards to the possible "no civilian surplus sales" provision in the S&W/U.S. Government Victory contract...…...assuming it's not folklore.
Dale
Last edited by tenntex32; 06-14-2020 at 07:42 PM.
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