Thanks Charlie!

Hi All, have what I think is a victory based on SN at auction. Any additional info would be great. Barrel length and sights confuse me because I didnt think the victory models were available in this configuration. It also had newer K frame grips on it. Barrel looks like its smooth bore the last 2" or so. SN is V633455. No caliber is marked on barrel. Has this been rebarreled? Also, any idea where I can get some period correct grips?

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It has been rebarreled reblued, buffed, adjustable sights drilled and tapped in frame and lanyard hole plugged.

I wouldn't worry about putting original grips back on it. There is nothing original left on the gun except the bare frame.

I agree, it's only value will be in how well it shoots for you...Find grips that are comfortable for your hand, and try it out on the range......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Hello,
I just purchased a Victory .38 S&W Special Ctg Pistol.
Any information I can get for it would be greatly appreciated.
Serial number V200929 and every part that has a serial number on it including the grips, matches the frame Serial.

Hello Will4me:

Your Victory is listed in the SWCA Database. According to our Database your revolver shipped in December, 1942 to the U.S. Navy at Oakland, CA as 1 of 1500 units in the shipment.

By the way, it further appears that your Victory was sent back to the factory and repaired in November, 1961 for the City of Moses Lake, Washington Police Department. Thus, your revolver may have had a second career after leaving the Navy. You might want to check the left side of the grip frame with the stocks off to see if there are any repair markings there.

I hope that information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Gorgeous gun...Congratulations...Anybody would be proud to own it, especially me.

Charlie,
Thank you for the response.
I lucked into this pistol at a local gunshow.
Thanks for all the info and I do love this pistol.
William

Here are some pictures of the markings under the grips.

William:

You are welcome.

The diamond symbol is usually considered to be an indicator of a factory repair. The 1161 translates to November, 1961 for the repair work date.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Good day:

Recently learned my brother-in-law who passed away last year had a Victory. Serial V345167. Using information from this very useful thread I think this example was likely manufactured in the July, 1943 to August, 1943 period. Does that seem correct?

Thank you.

Ned

Yes, Ned, your July or August, 1943 range is correct on the ship date for this Victory.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Thank you Charlie.

Also realized we are discussing ship dates - not date of manufacture. My error.

Ned

Here is one with no marking on the top strap, P on the barrel flat and above the cylinder latch, with ordnance (flaming bomb) mark mixed in with the serial number. Then there is the W stamped on the butt. Any available info would be appreciated, of course. This one has been very lightly used and I'm thinking DSC.

I'm pretty sure I have a butt swivel for it somewhere.

Edit to add P on the rear face of the cylinder.

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After reading C. Pate again some of the marking point towards Army Supply Program (ASP) but I am still a little confused as to the year.

I recently got this Victory Model in very good condition. All serial numbers and assembly numbers are where they're supposed to be and are matching.
My confusion stems from the Historical Letter that came with it. From my admittedly limited knowledge, I don't believe the shipping date and the finish can be correct.
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No expert here, but according to Pate, from March, 1942 till the end of the war, finish was, sandblast "Black Magic" (parkerized).

Not an expert, but the finish looks right to me...Proprietary oxide finish known as "Black Magic". There were a few parkerized in 1942, but I am not sure if zinc oxide or manganese oxide was used....The manganese oxide parkerized is charcoal black, whereas zinc is lighter gray.

I would imagine that the information on the letter would be correct as actual shipping invoices and dates are reviewed when research is done. What exactly makes you think something is wrong with the date?

From what I have read the serial number is far too high for 1942.

Charlie is the expert on these, but from what I have seen, the serial number doesn't always correspond with shipping date. Say a 5 inch .38/200 model is produced and the order is 2500 guns. Then simultaneous orders for 4 inch guns comes in in .38 Special for the US Maritime Commission....

Then some stamped and numbered frames are sent back for tolerance issues and then used in another batch, but they sat in a pile for 6 months waiting on tolerance repair or another like order or whatever other chaotic issues that S&W had at this time.

It's frankly amazing that S&W kept such good records during wartime and people like Roy Jinks and others saved those records.

I was researching a wartime British Webley and that company kept nothing...Zilch, nada.

Retired W4:

Your V492220 likely shipped from the factory in the December, 1943 to January, 1944 time. Your suggestion that it may be a DSC authorized shipment is probably accurate, although it is also possible that it was a Maritime Commission shipment. Many examples of both destinations are found in close proximity to your serial number.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Lancerdg:

Nice revolver you have there.

I agree that your letter is in error. This occasionally happens as none of us is perfect. The correct ship date should be July 15, 1943, not 1942. The finish was indeed Black Magic.

SWHF Assistant Historian Don Mundell would, I am sure, be happy to double check on this for you and correct the suspected error. Bring it to his attention and, if warranted, a new letter will be promptly issued with the correct shipping date. Don works very hard to get things right but every now and then something slips past. Even Babe Ruth did not bat 1000.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Thanks, Charlie.
I'll contact Don Mundell for a corrected letter.

I was under the impression that Black Magic was a black oxide applied over a sandblasted surface that was used prior to the short-lived Parkerizing process used in 1942 which infringed on the Parker Rustproofing Company's patent. Thereafter, a different phosphate process was used called Military Midnight Black.
I got this information from a 10 year old post. Is this still correct?

Lancerdg:

No, it is not correct. Further research and analysis on the Victory Model, facilitated in large measure by the S&WHF's document digitization project, has revealed additional information that changes what was thought to be the case years ago.

In February, 1942 the Hartford Ordnance District approved a change in finish to the use of Black Magic after sandblasting with 120 grain media. That is what was used until the end of the War. Several terms have been used over the years to describe this finish ("military midnight black finish"; "rough military finish"; "blued, sandblast finish"; "parkerized finish" - note the lower case p; "military black magic finish", "non-light reflecting finish"; etc.) but after the aforementioned date all were Black Magic.

Parkerizing was only used for about one week during June of 1942, and its use was exclusive to DSC shipped guns.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Once again, thanks.
It's always good when a more simple explanation corrects a more complicated one.

Sharing a new purchase, correct me if I'm wrong, calling this a "Pre Victory". There are no US markings, no "US Navy" and no proofs. Serial is 981405. I think this is from the first Navy contract of 20K. In almost 100% condition, this must have missed the war. Additional info welcome.

G2

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That is almost certainly a DSC or US Maritime Comm. gun. And a nice one, too.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

I was told the W could be Dept. of Strategic Services, OSS?

I thought it might be worth getting a letter, as I have not seen this and could not find it mentioned in Pate.

The 42 is a separate issue I think.

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G2:

Your beautiful pre-Victory likely shipped from the factory in May, 1942. I agree with Kwill that it most likely would letter as a DSC authorized shipment or a Maritime Commission gun. Very, very nice piece.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Retired W4:

I would encourage you to get a letter on it, although V492220 will not letter as shipped to the O.S.S. The "42" is most likely a form of rack or inventory number marking.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

I have two for the database. The first one may already be in there.
The first one is a BSR in 38 S&W and has not been converted to 38 spcl.
V623315. Most of the markings are there. If anything was on the top strap it's gone.

The second one is in 38 spcl. Most of its markings are there but the top strap sanded.
V292470.
I know the grips are wrong. I'm thinking about swapping them around.

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Thanks for supplying the pics and data on your two Victories for the Database, UltraCarry45. Every bit helps.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Charlie, thanks for the info. You may remember you helped me with one of the post war 2 USMC contract "C" prefix "post Victory" guns. I'll get some pics of that posted.

G2