I am new to the site and would like help Identifying this S&W revolver that belonged to my dad. It has a 6" barrel with the patent dates Feb. 6,05 Sept. 14,09 Dec. 29,14. The number on the cyl. is 682XXX. (Unfortunately it has had the after market grips since the 60s when as a youngster first saw the revolver.) Is it worth trying to find the swivel and factory grips? I have included a number of photos any help would be appreciated.

I hope I have posted this in the right area.

Thanks in advance,

Denny

Welcome to the Forum.

It appears that the hole in the butt of your revolver is bigger than standard. I don't believe a factory lanyard loop will fit.

Has the serial number been stamped on the frame under the grips? The serial number can also be found on the bottom of the barrel.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Thank you so much for the reply. I did find the number under the barrel and it does match the number on the cylinder and on the butt. Under the barrel there is what looks to be a B about 3/8" before the number. I can make out what appears to be some numbers on the frame under the grips but they are very light. I will try to get a magnifying glass tomorrow.

Thanks again.

Denny

The "B" means that your revolver shipped with a blue finish.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

The gun has been modified somewhat, and it is not completely clear to me what has happened. It does look as though a lanyard loop was added to a gun that originally did not have one. The gun has been refinished. As part of the refinish, somebody stamped a cartridge designation on the left side of the barrel a little above and to the right of the the SMITH & WESSON rollmark; it says .38 S&W SPECIAL. Ordinarily you would see that kind of marking in that location on a gun that was rechambered from .38 S&W to .38 Special, which was done to thousands of British Service Revolvers tht S&W produced for Commonwealth countries before and during American participation in WWII.

The hammer and trigger look as though they have been nickeled, which is not original. Possibly they look so bright just because of the flash illumination. S&W hammers and triggers were case colored when shipped, and left in that finish when the company refinished a weapon. Commercial gun refinishers would often nickel or blue hammers without reference to company policies and preferences.

Your gun is a Military & Police Model of 1905, fourth change. It probably shipped in 1939 or 1940. If it originally chambered the .38 S&W round it would say so on the right side of the barrel, and it would be classified as a British Service Revolver. But a BSR should have come with a lanyard loop in he first place, so I'm not completely sure what's going on here.

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David Wilson

Muley, thanks for filling me in on the "B" for blued finish and thanks for your military service. My dad was proud to be a marine, I was born at Lejeune during the Korean conflict. When I wanted to join up during Viet Nam my dad talked me out of it. One of the few times I listened to his advice.

Denny

DC,

Thanks for the information that you have provided. The info about the cartridge change is good to know and yes you are correct the trigger and the hammer are nickel plated. I have attached a photo of the right side barrel and it confirms what you had suggested. It does appear that the revolver has been modified but it is still a good thing that the numbers match am I right.

Thanks again,

I appreciate the knowledge.

Denny

Sorry,

I forgot the attachment of the rt. side of barrel

Attached Images

Barrel 002.jpg (37.9 KB, 58 views)

If the numbers all match (including some that are hard to see on the underside of the ejector star and the small rear face of the yoke), the gun is all original. You might be able to read the yoke number by looking through one of the charge holes while you shine a light down past the face of the cylinder.

Some caliber conversions of these guns were better than others. If the charge holes were overbored and sleeved, then chambered for .38 Special, that's good. But the cheap fix was just to lengthen the charge holes so a .38 Special round could be completely inserted. The problem with this is that the .38 Special and .38 S&W have slightly different case diameters, and .38 brass can swell or even split if fired in chambers that are marginally larger than they need to be along part of their length.

ADDENDUM: I just saw your last photo, which clearly shows the gun chambers .38 S&W Special. That means it is not a BSR, and I don't understand why the same cartridge designation was also stamped on the other side off the barrel above the manufacturer's rollmark. Very strange.

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David Wilson

Denny,

Can you take a picture of the cylinder from the rear, showing the chambers?

The right side of the barrel shows that it is a .38 special; why would someone mark the left side as well?

A number of K frames in the 682xxx range shipped in the first part of 1940.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Thanks again I wish my dad were still around to help enlighten me as to where he got the revolver and what he knew about the modifications. There is a quality local gunsmith that I will check with on Tuesday. Sometimes mysteries make things interesting. I will keep checking for the numbers too and will repost when I am able.

Denny

Yes Muley, DC wonders the same thing. I will try to get a photo of the cylinder I usually get some glare but will try.

Denny

Muley,

I was able to get a pretty good photo (attached) of the cylinder and the numbers are legible.

Denny

Attached Images

cylinder 001.jpg (40.8 KB, 40 views)

David,

My wife and I could both read and confirm that the numbers on the ejector star match and she believe that the numbers on the yoke also match but I am unable to see them well enough to confirm. I will keep after it.

Denny

Do you access to any .38 S&W cartridges? They are bit fatter than a .38 special and most will not fit a .38 special chamber.

If you can, please tilt the cylinder a mite amd take a picture. I'm trying to get a good look at the chambers to see if they have been reamed from .38 S&W to .38 special.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

As I look at the charge holes in that picture I think I see two case length indicators; that indicates to me that the gun was originally .38 S&W and was bored to take .38 Special later. But then the barrel's rollmarks needs to be explained.

I don't see the double case-length shoulders in all chambers; but I see them in more than one, which is extremely suggestive.

What a mystery!

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David Wilson

"...I think I see two case length indicators"

Me too!

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Muley and David,

I think I am beginning to understand a little about what you are telling me and I think I can see the two case length indicators that you have mentioned. (photos attached) I do not have a S&W Round available but I did drop a 38 special round in the cylinder and it is not as tight fitting as I would think it should be. So if I understand you correctly the modification to the cylinder to accept the 38 special round is the poor mans modification. I will take it to the local gunsmith on Tuesday and try a 38 S&W round.


I have learned alot about this revolver from you two men and much appreciate your help.

Denny

Attached Images

	cylinder 002.jpg (41.3 KB, 15 views)
	cylinder 003.jpg (32.7 KB, 16 views)
	cylinder 004.jpg (43.9 KB, 21 views)

Denny,

DC refers to a BSR in an earlier post, which stands for British Service Revolver. The standard version was chambered in .38 S&W and had a 5" barrel. However, some also had 4" and 6" barrel lengths. IIRC, the Brits, or some of the other commonwealth countries, did accept a few revolvers in .38 special.

One possibility is that this revolver was sent to the UK by Americans at the beginning of WW II for island defense. Firearms of all sorts were sent over, including single action Colts and lever action Winchesters. It is possible that this Smith was rechambered to .38 S&W and fitted with an oversized lanyard loop in Great Britian.

I wonder if a Webley lanyard loop would fit the hole in the butt??????

BTW, many of the BSR revolvers were sent back to the US after the war. As .38 S&W was not as popular here, many were rechambered to .38 special. A large number of these rechambered revolvers also were cutdown to "snub nose" length and had flimsey ramp front sights fitted to them. The worst of the conversions had the barrels cut so that the barrel lug that secured the front of the ejector rod was also removed.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Muley,

Thank you for your most recent post. What you have suggested would make the most sense. I will try to locate a Webley lanyard loop and see what happens. I will still also stop by my local gun smith on Tuesday (he is closed on Mondays) and will report back. I very much appreciate the knowledge that you and DC have shared.

Thank you,

Denny

I would agree with what has already been posted. I would add that normally, S&W would restamp the frame on the front strap with the serial number if they added a swivel and had to drill through the butt serial number. This is something that you may want to consider having done as IIRC, the ATF considers any serial number mutilation as a big no no. Even though the serial number appears on the barrel, the cylinder, under the extractor and on the yoke, the butt is the only place that the frame is marked and it is the frame that makes it a firearm. The barrel, cylinder, extractor star and yoke are considered parts only and can be purchased without any paperwork or license.

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James Redfield
LM #497

JSR,

Thank you I will discuss this with the gunsmith.

Denny

OK, I'm not the expert y'all are but here is my theory. This is not a 38 S&W revolver that was converted after the war into 38 Special, this is a 38 Special that was converted to 38 S&W. I think this was purchased by a British purchasing agent from a distributor, not directly from S&W. Once it got to England it was re-chambered to 38/200 and a lanyard ring installed.

The British proof marks on the side of the cylinder were probably added post war when the revolver was sent back to the States. However I think it is also possible this revolver was sold through an British Army/Navy store. In this case it probably would have required proof marks prior to sale to an Officer in 1940.