Here we are (well, not me, actually, but most of you reading this) treating the RMs like Michelangelo paintings... preserving them... babying them... jealously locking them away in safes protected from the light of day to keep them as pristine as possible... but when new most of them went to cops who put them in holsters and carried them on the "mean streets" or to sportsmen who took them afield, in the rain, and snow, and heavy brush in search of game. I wonder what those original owners would think if they saw how collectors now treat their guns.

I agree that like most guns when first produced, the registered magnums were designed as tools and most were carried by law enforcement, in the field for hunting, and kept around the house for personal defense.

I think some of the owners would have understood the fuss if they could come back today and see they are coveted and prized. There were firearms collectors in those days, too. Some of them collected SAAs, rolling blocks, revolutionary flintlocks, Turkish matchlocks, civil war revolvers, etal.

The tricky part was reading the tea leaves and determining which guns were going to become popular for collectors. That is usually something that cannot be predicted.
But, the vast majority of guns bought were not treated like jewels, as you suggest.

My guess is that most of them would scoff at the practice as absurdity in their day. But if they understood todays values and the scarcity of pristine RM specimens, they might very well think otherwise. It is however, an interesting subject for speculation and discussion.

Cheers;
Lefty

I'd want to know that my guns were venerated and treated as history and fine arms, to be cherished and admired by future generations.

I treat them now as I'd want them treated in future. I just use them with care. Most show very little wear, perhaps because of wise choices in holsters and proper cleaning.

If I owned a RM, I'd probably shoot it occasionally, maybe hunt something of suitable size with it. M-27's from the 1950's and early '60's are also fine items, as are the early .44 Magnums and Combat Magnums, if not stressed with excessive loads.

Saxon, good thought. My father had many S&W's over the years and while he kept them clean, they were never babied. My father and most of his friends thought of guns as tools, nice tools mean to be kept up, but tools. My father would laugh at the way I treat some of my S &W's, especially the ones I do not shoot! While I may never own a Reg Mag, I am glad that there are those who have them and keep them for the next generations to see.

This is one of the reasons I sold my former 1954 M&P 2" Airweight with the aluminum cylinder. Shooting it would have risked cracking the cylinder. It bugged me I had a gun that I felt I would not shoot under most scenarios. I do have guns I baby and rarely shoot but in this case I felt I couldn't shoot it without exposing it to risk of damage.

If I had known I'd be worth this much I'd have taken better care of myself!!

I think this is the answer right here. We can assume that some, if not many, of those same men who put a RM on their hip every day had things- stamps, art, other guns, whatever- they collected and babied, with others wondering why and failing to see any sense in it. The "safe queen" is hardly a recent development and has likely existed since man first began hoarding sharp pointed sticks and flint rocks.

I have only one. It is just breaking to shooter quality. I see no need to fire it, as I have numerous shooter grade guns that will pop a .357/.38 round of ammo.

__________________
Living a dream - S&WCA #2364

In the '70s I was fortunate to own some very fine single shot rifles--ALL of which I shot. Today's collectors might be horrified if they saw me out on the range with an original Pope Stevens or a Hepburn Creedmore. Maybe age has changed me but I own several S&W's (and a coupla Winchesters) that I don't shoot. I think there is value in enjoying some and preserving some for future generations (or balance the retirement account if necessary). JM2CW

__________________
Randy
Provenance nerd

Given the condition of the one I lucked into.... whoever had it from 1939 till 2006 treated it pretty well..... it's still +95%.

I saw a thread not to long ago speculating that maybe only 40-50% of the 5400 Reg mags are still around and most of those are not in "great" shape. I will keep mine as a found it ...... if I need a .357 I've got a 28 or a 686 that will do me just fine.

At some point that "tool" becomes a piece of history.........and I will do my best to perserve it. Now if I could just find a 54 corvette...................at MSRP..LOL....I would promise not to drive it in Pittsburgh winters.

I think the vast majority of original Registered Magnum owners, if they could see the way we treat them today, would say, “Wow – I’m alive. It’s a miracle! Woo hoo!”

So looking into the crystal ball, what guns being produced today are going to be collector’s items some 75+ years down the road? Who cares, most of us are likely to be dead by then. But I would guess that the S&W revolvers being produced today will be on that list, particularly with the internal lock intact and the key. “Imagine, a metal firearm, with a quaint mechanical locking scheme, and a grip made of wood!” says the collector of the future. (Assuming all goes well and firearms can still be owned by then.)

We've based this thread on some things I'm not sure are true. I'm not sure at all that "most" were taken afield and fired each day. Or worn in holsters on duty. Surely some were. But we seem to stress the KC guns that seem to have been more mistreated than not. And I've owned a few that were sent to a PD, but sure don't show any more wear than sportsman's models.

I also feel pretty certain the vast majority of the wear and tear took place in their first years. Over the last 50, most enjoyed a life of leisure, slathered in protectant and hidden from the light of day. I have guns I bought 35 to 45 years ago that are still in very nice condition. Yet I took them out at nearly every opportunity. To me, they were major expenditures and I wanted them to remain nice. The $60 the commercial guns cost was a bunch back in the day.

Maybe the ones that were mistreated weren't respected as much because the user wasn't the owner or purchaser. It wasn't his money that bought it, and he didn't even really know how to take care of it. The same situation exists now and all the way back. Remember how nicely honored and polished the Victories were, and the Model 10s, and the Brazilian Contract guns? Maybe here we're looking at the KC guns and trying to extend that same condition problem over the guns Grandpa bought and cherished.

Another problem seems to be shared by all the 1930s guns. Owners modified them to their own liking. Back then if an owner changed something to suit himself, it was respected by others. His gun, his preference, no reason to stick anyone's nose in someone's business. Today we decry anything that removes the gun from "as bought".


And remember, Roy doesn't consider the KC guns to be Registered Models. To him, they may contain the Reg stamp, but they were sold cheap and basically hold the status of the non-reg guns. If we remove them from the pool or population of guns we decry the condition issues, we see a much different picture.

But remember I'm one of the more ignorant of their collectors. I don't even know how many were made. I'm even at the point where I don't trust those who say they know. It requires a lot of assumptions to arrive at an answer. I'm not even comfortable with the definition of Registered Magnum. While I respect those who define it differently, there's a lot of support for the different opinions. Registered Magnum, Registered Model, Non-Registered. Tell us where you put the KC guns (none of which were ever registered) and the hundreds of others that went to PDs or the FBI. Of those last, a bunch were destroyed due to ignorance in high places. But most weren't registered. Individual agents guns would be different still.

I may be in the minority here because I didn't only seek the best ones. I was willing to buy the lesser quality examples as I saw them. This forum is a subset of the collectors out and about. Many big time collectors (and with big money) don't come here to participate. They prefer to operate under the radar. Just because we have a majority here that feel a certain way doesn't mean a majority of collectors feel the same.

__________________
Dick Burg

Wells, I don't know much 'bout collecting, I'm somewhat more versed in usin'.

The pre-war S&W 357 Magnum or should I say long action magnum revolvers exhibit
the pinnacle of fit, finish and 1930s craftsmanship not found today.

Oh, I realize that todays tooling methods are more accurate, what with CNC machines that can hold close tolerances and such.

Too me anyway, there just the pride and joy of owning and using a hand fitted, smooth action sidearm.
One who deprives oneself of the pure pleasure that experience brings to one's life, is well, jest cheatin' himself.

Personally, I'm too close to the end of this race to deprive myself of any of life's little pleasures.
Nor to concern myself with the risin' cost of gettin by and or
the gains of goods or any-other stockpiling of desirables.

SP, thanks for bring this matter to the forefront.
Not everyone can appreciate handcrafted quality to it's fullest for fear of losing a dollars worth of equity.

I holstered mine up 4 or 5 hours ago and probably won't un-hitch my gun-belt till around dark this evening.


Su Amigo,
Dave

__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

It's all about supply and demand. Why shoot a RM, especially a nice one, when the values of these revolvers keep escalating? There are plenty of .38/.357s that will shoot just fine without the worry of devaluing them.

I love the beauty and workmanship of the old S&W revolvers. Although I'm not shooting them, I enjoy taking them out, cleaning them, and admiring them. Sure, they were made as tools and tools are made to be used, but I wouldn't use a RM any more than I'd use an antique dagger, sword, or axe.

All of this said, I don't own a RM. I've been looking for one, but haven't been fortunate enough to buy one yet. Someday...

__________________
NRA Life Member

It is interesting to me that I had a similar conversation with a gentleman just yesterday about this same thought. His opinion and mine too for that matter is that when you are holding/shooting an older firearm you are holding history and it is enjoyable to put yourself in thought in the time period. We are for the most part"gun guys" who enjoy firearms of many types and when we are discussing 1935 S&W Magnums we should think and enjoy the idea of going into the gun store and "looking " at the latest Model from S&W and think if we would order one for ourself and if so what would it have. Unless the example is perfect, I would have no problem shooting a few rds. now and again with others who would appreciate doing so. For me, it's all about enjoying all aspects of our hobby. All my best, Joe.

Doc, yer gonna be dislikin' me here. I've been known to shove an RM in an old Heiser holster, put on a Randall in a Heiser sheath, and go for a walk. Just as bad, back in the 1980s I found the poison ivy vines too thick for easy wackin', so I took to tossin' an early Marbles hand axe in the jeep. I quit doin' that last, but I don't recall why.

Careful usin' doesn't do much damage at all.

__________________
Dick Burg

Rburg is right..... once or twice a year I'll take my Dad's 6 inch Colt New Service in .357mag to the range for a few .38s. My way to reconnect. It was his primary duty gun from 1939 till about 1965. It was sent off to get king sights and an action job; it was also his center-fire target gun until he retired in 1977. It's still about 85%, after about 5460 days in and out of a holster and police car.

I think that for a lot of old timers,my dad included, each gun was the best they could afford;prized possesions, and were cared for accordingly. In fact I use to joke with him about not having a Reg. Mag.(I like Smiths better). His reply was that the Colt NS and the trip to King's was $5-10 cheaper than just ordering a Smith.

Dad's last "new gun" was a Smith 41, .22lr in the early 60s. He made a padded wooden box to take it to the indoor police range every Monday night for at least 10 years...... that gun is as close to new as if bought last year.

That said my RM is just too nice and isn't a part of our "family" history so it will be a safe Queen that will be handed down to one of my boys as a piece of history....maybe once it's in the family for 20-30 years............like my 3" 66-3 sporting Spegel boot grips from 1988, or my first year 3913NL which the boys know as "dad's guns"!

Funny you mention that. I just passed on a fully engraved 66-1 for the same reason: I know it would never, under any circumstance, be fired.

Except for a couple of commemertives that I lucked into cheap, I have at least took out all my guns at least several times. I do have a supream skeet ithica 37 20 gauge with the sticker on the stock that I owned around 30 years and havent shot yet. A original win 63 and a browning side by side and win 64 that were only shot a couple times, also a 1950 smith shot just on one outing. Now if I had no other comparable type guns to them and needed to shoot that type gun at this stage of my life I WOULD shoot them and not be looking to buy a cheaper gun to shoot.
75 years ago I imagine some people did have money durring the depression etc and bought the highest grade guns they could. Maybe a few bought them with no intention of shooting them but I belive the vast majority of the buyers bought them with the intention of useing "The best". Many of us including me, have bought nice guns with the same intention of useing them, maybe take it out and shoot it once or twice and then when it does come a oppertuneity to use it in the field grab something beat up out of the safe that will do the job.
I find myself doing that at least weekly. I cant quite seem to take one of my pythons or colt saa`s on the trail rideing ATV`s in the dust and always reach for a nice used smith. I have created a safe queen without intending to.

I guess it is the rarity and condition that cause us today to think twice. But then, the RM's were as good as you could get. I have an American Rifleman article by Elmer Keith testing the RM in the mid-30's. I think a lot of people with the money bought one just because of what the people like Elmer were saying. These things were spectacular performers and that is what attracted most buyers. Did most have thousand of rounds through them like Elmer used his, probably not, as we have a lot of them that are still in very high condition. But some were used as tools and unfortunately, some were abused as tools. Not much different than today.

Personally, I think they are a wonderful example of what America could do during this period. The hand work, fit and finish will never be approached again in a production piece. Thing is Winchesters from this period are much the same, the special order, high end stuff is simply magnificent. A lot of those got used and abused too, but some didn't. I love guns from this period around 95%, because I can still shoot one if I want without ruining the pristine collector value and appreciate what we did as a nation during that time. At that condition they are just plain fun. Collectors seeking like-new condition guns with all the goodies that go with them will continue to cause the values to escalate and thats fine. Those type of guns are just harder for me to enjoy, not that I don't appreciate what they represent.

To close, a friend of mine last year bought a pristine, in the case, 4 screw 44 magnum (pre-29) at a gun show. Beautiful piece, maybe never fired outside of the factory. Another friend said, "Boy, I wish that one could talk". I answered "Why? All it would say is 'let me out of this box in the back of the safe'". I guess what I'm saying is a little use gives them a voice. A lot of use gives them a story.

No dislike from me, partner. I don't mind at all when other folks use their tools, S&W or otherwise. In fact, I'd love to go to the range with someone who doesn't mind shooting their old S&Ws so I could try them. I just can't bring myself to shoot the ones I have. I think the excessive fear of devaluing them may have something to do with my Scottish heritage. 8^ )

Best wishes,


David

__________________
NRA Life Member

I refuse to be possessed by my possessions. For me any firearm is nothing but a tool, perhaps a very well-engineered and manufactured tool but a tool never less. I use all of my tools as intended and I also take very good care of my tools.

More power to you. My ancestors invented copper wire during a fight over a penny. I'd love to shoot my old revolvers, but can't bring myself to do it.

__________________
NRA Life Member

Well, we're back to this perennial topic again. Still no consensus in sight. My guess is that it is a long continuum with the "Ain't gonna own no gun I cain't shoot" bubbas on one end and the "I can't sleep because the recording hygrometer in my vault is out of paper" effetes on the other end. I'd probably put most of us somewhere in between the two extremes. And our position probably slides on that scale depending upon what gun we are discussing.

Here's an exercise in visualizing the future. Can you imagine some 22nd Century collector gnashing his teeth when he stumbles on some early 21st Century S&W that some Neanderthal had removed and plugged the lock mechanism and replaced the glow worm sight with a rainbow laser. I suspect there will be a thriving cottage industry in supplying those parts that we now throw in the trash. I would guess that the lock key might be as cherished as a RM sight adjustment tool is to us.

Bob

"Anything else?"
"Plasma rifle in the 40 watt range." - T-100 Terminator

Doc,

That's kinda like a feller was by a high breed (read high priced) reinin horse I had one time.

We's fixin to gather a pasture in some pretty rough country and my uncle sez, "Ya ain't gonna ride that hoss are ye?
Why you're liable to cripple him in one of them gullies or sumthing, why think of the dollars there!!!"

Wells that pony worked purty good that day...He'd at least look at a cow like he was breed to do.

I had this nice long barreled revolver once...Was showin it to a close friend, tellin him how much I cherished it and all.

His observation was, "Well your wife's next ol man will likely use that 'n as a poker for that stove right thar!"

That got me to thinkin', I don't want to be one of them fellers are jest to darn fond of their horses.

The next hand to take 'em over, may very well jest hook 'em to a plow!

Su Amigo,
Dave

__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

i must agree...these guns came out during the great depression...they cost more then the other offerings and one could custom order to suit his own tastes,send in his registration and in short have a gun built to order in a brand new caliber....and was quite pricey to boot!
hmmmm...looks like collector material,smells like a collector material...yep!i think many were in fact fussed over...not all mind you as some went to police agencies and were more or less simply tools however i'm certain a lot were carefully taken care of

__________________
SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

Kieth44spl..... your comment about "the next hand.....hooking it to a plow" reminded me of the history the LGS told me about my RM.

As I said earlier it had Rubber grips and came with a Uncle Mikes shoulder holster. When I first looked at it, and asked about its history; the dealer said "it was on consignment,that it had been part of an estate,but the wife didn't want handguns in the house.... so the husband had brought it (and a couple of other "old smiths" which were already gone) in ..... to get rid of them."

My guess is after 60 some years of the RM being someone's(s) well cared for prize revolver.... the last owner (the heir), didn't know what he had....... thought he'd make it better by slapping some $20 rubber grips on it and take it into the woods in a one size fits all nylon holster.

I think we all owe it to our families to make sure they know exactly what they will inherit.... working guns, guns with family history and those special safe Queens...... to pass on the love of firearms and shooting.

Good topic, SP!

I imagine that there were people who bought RMs back in the '30s because they liked to own the best of everything. Perhaps they brought it out occasionally as a status symbol to impress their less financially fortunate relatives and associates.

But for the most part, my bet would be that RMs were bought to be used. For a while, they were the only .357 Magnum available, and touted as being the ultimate handgun for hunting, law enforcement, and self defense. Anyone who just wanted a status symbol could buy just about any gun and have it engraved and plated in gold, encrusted in diamonds, etc, etc.

This reminds me of a recent thread a guy started about some old target stocks ("cokes") that had at some point been carefully and skillfully reshaped to fit someone's hand.

The poster was beside himself with outrage that "some moron" would do such a thing. He stated "it almost brought me to tears!"

Can such a statement be serious? Something that was done to wood maybe 50 years ago has the guy wailing and gnashing his teeth?

We have no idea who did it or for what reason.
Maybe he was a champion target shooter and these stocks helped him win matches. Or he was in law enforcement and believed the modified stocks would help him get off an accurate shot just a hair faster than some murderous gangster.

The point is, be careful about second-guessing people you don't know and whose motivations you can't possibly understand.

__________________
You're shy a few manners.

The guns cost $60 or so, back in the middle 1930's . Since the inception
of the US Federal Reserve, the dollar has lost about 97% of its value.
Prices were probably about the same, or close to it, in 1935, as they
were in 1913, when the Fed was established.

$60 back then is about $2000 today. In mint condition, all other things
being equal, reg mags should sell for $2000 today. If one takes into
account the uneven distribution of wealth ( think 99% vs 1% ), or
the big increase today in S&W collectors who like reg mags, or the
survival rate of reg mags, or the scarcity of certain barrel lengths,
then one should easily expect to see prices much higher than $2000,
and in fact, we do. $6000 to $10,000 is not uncommon for good
pieces with good provenance.

This is the reality of the market place, like it or not.

So, these can be expensive guns, and reasonable and rational people
can be expected to take care of them. Its not surprising that they are
safe queens, and its not surprising that a lot of money is spent getting
them as close to original configuration as possible.

There is a world of difference between shooters, and collectible
pieces. I have no problem with shooters, and the people who like to
shoot them. I have no problem with collectors who never shoot their
good pieces. This is just the nature of the beast.

Regards, Mike Priwer

My old grannie always said there ain't no reason to ride a mule if you own a throughbred. Larry

I dunno Larry. Anyone who knows and has worked with mules can think of several places where the mule would save your life and the thoroughbred would probably get you killed.

Now, I'd probably agree with Granny if we are talking about guns, girls, and cars.

Bob

Most (99.99%) of 1963 Corvettes are in the junkyard. At the local Mecum auction this past weekend, one went for over 200K. I bet it wasn't a daily driver and I don't know if it brought joy to everyone associated with it. Everyone values "things" differently. Joe

__________________
Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

Wells,
Them mules are alright in the hills...But it takes a cow horse to bust the brush
when ya tryin to lay yer twine on an ol mossy horn.

I always held to the old saw, "No Guts, No Glory!"
And that goes for my ol Smiths too.

Su Amigo,
Dave

__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

That also applies to guns, girls, and cars. What grannie was saying is use the best you have. There is no reason to use junk when you have something good. Larry

This reminds me of a story of the fellow who was the previous owner of our house in Michigan. Mr. Green told my father that he had a hankerin' to try pheasant hunting in the open fields near 14 mile road outside of Mt. Clemens (it's all factories there now), so he bought himself a fine over-under shotgun and bought an expensive bird dog that he had trained for him.

First day out, he's walking through the fields when he slips and falls into the mud. The noise he makes flushes up a pheasant, so he quickly jumps to his feet, raises his brand new shotgun, and fires.

What he didn't know until that instant is that when he fell, the barrel went into the mud and got plugged...

In that instant, he blew up his expensive new shotgun and scared the dog so badly that it ran off and he never saw it again. He said he never went hunting again.

Now THAT would be my luck if I ever took a RM out into the field. 8^ )

__________________
NRA Life Member

I suspect some of the old timers would feel the way I feel when I see the prices paid for the RMs much younger, plain-jane sister, the M28 I carried my entire time in uniform and on stakeouts for a few years more: amazed at the price they bring and the attention they draw and, as Jack Flash noted, a little irked that somebody who wants it just to stare at and fondle has the gall to criticize the neon green insert I put in the front sight or the rubber Mustang finger-groove grips that fit my hand so much better than the magnas it came with. And grateful to be around to hear about it because the tool I chose did what it was made to do so well.

__________________
I need ammo, not a ride.

Well, I own one of those questionable KCPD "non-registered, registered" guns (the rarest of the rare!). I find that my enjoyment taking it to the range a couple of times a year far exceeds any concern I have about diminishing it's value by doing so. But, to each - his own.

Jerry

Keerful with your terminology. No KC gun was ever "Registered". They never even got the postcard to mail back to "mother". So what you probably have is a KC Magnum with a Reg # stamped in the crane. Same exact workmen, same polish, same tune in the action.

With KC guns, the real question seems to be, was it still original, refinished once, twice or more, and by the factory or Bubba.

__________________
Dick Burg

I have a RM shooter. It letters with an 8 3/4 barrel, but it is now a 6" with a cockeyed hammer and pearl grips, with red ruby eyes. The Call gold bead sight has been rounded somewhat , apparently to slide better in a holster. I would not do anything to bring it back to its original condition. Someone worked it over to his needs, whatever they were. I take it out and exercise it on occasion. It is very good condition and I doubt I can hurt it any with reasonable loads. While I was disappointed with the cut barrel, I appreciate that the owner customized it to his needs and took very good care of it. I have changed many a trigger and grips myself so I cannot begrudge someone else doing it.
On the other hand the new in a blue picture box with the original mail in card and cleaning rod and original numbered grips will probably not be shot as long as I own it!!

__________________
Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

I bought one few years back 2003 and kept it in the safe only to wipe it down and look at it. I knew when i bought it that it had been reblued even at that i would not shoot it. Then this past year as i looked at it mech. it was sound so then decided if I own this and never shoot a piece of history I lost out. Not getting any younger as well. If it was factory new and all the goods maybe not. As far as how they treated them back in the day well most understood that taking care of what put food on the table or saved your life needed taken care of.

Thanks RB