Pre-model 30 .32 question

[Mossyrock]

I just picked up an UGLY, 2", pre-30 .32 off of GB. It looked kind of rough in the photos, but in person it is considerably worse. I am not going to cry about it too much because I got it for a ridiculously low price. It is currently torn apart and soaking in Kroil before I give it a good scrub to determine the actual condition.

One thing that is not in question is the condition of the grips. They are trashed. I want to replace them, but that brings up a question..... I can buy J frame grips all day long, and twice on Sunday. I frame? Not so much. Are the grips interchangeable? If I have to, I can go with a repro set of hard rubber .32 Hand Ejector grips, but I would rather have a nice set of walnuts. Any suggestions?

[Mossyrock]

OK. Answered my own question. Anyone have a good source for I-frame grips other than GB and Evilbay?

[Erich]

You're going to have a tough time, hombre. Sad thing is that I saw some in not-horrendous shape a couple weeks back, but they're gone now.

I've got a pre-30 in an Improved I-frame - it's pretty ugly due to bad storage shortly before I got it, but the stocks are still decent. I enjoy it a lot: I'm sure you'll be able to do the same.

[walter o]

Place an add in the W.T.B. section of this forum. Lots of S&W owners here

[HARDWARE]

If it's rough, I'd just throw these on it. They're kinda cheesey...but also of its time

S w Round Short Butt "I" Frame Jay Scott 22 Laminated Stag Grips Screw | eBay

[hardcase60]

Mossyrock,

Couple of years past I found a pre model 30 in pretty good shape with very decent matching grips. Decided (maybe unwisely) to take the grips off so they wouldn't get banged up. Didn't think finding a knock around set of stocks would be that difficult. Wrong! So I found a set of black very fake horn J frame on fleabay. Are they perfect? Not! But they function. So, if you find any you don't want then PM me. hardcase60

[Alk8944]

Originally Posted by Mossyrock

OK. Answered my own question. Anyone have a good source for I-frame grips other than GB and Evilbay?

So what was the answer you think you figured out? Bet it is wrong.

If you are looking for Magna I-frame stocks then any J-frame Diamond Magnas can be modified easily. The checkering pattern on both the I and J frame is identical, the stock pin is in the same location. The only difference is the J stocks are about 1/8" shorter at the bottom. They can be shortened and re-shaped and they will look original, if you do a good enough job!

The on-line sellers are still your best bet

[Mossyrock]

Originally Posted by Alk8944

So what was the answer you think you figured out? Bet it is wrong.

If you are looking for Magna I-frame stocks then any J-frame Diamond Magnas can be modified easily. The checkering pattern on both the I and J frame is identical, the stock pin is in the same location. The only difference is the J stocks are about 1/8" shorter at the bottom. They can be shortened and re-shaped and they will look original, if you do a good enough job!

The on-line sellers are still your best bet

Interesting........

[Mossyrock]

Originally Posted by HARDWARE

If it's rough, I'd just throw these on it. They're kinda cheesey...but also of its time

S w Round Short Butt "I" Frame Jay Scott 22 Laminated Stag Grips Screw | eBay

I saw those. I am not that desperate. Yet....

[Hondo44]

Mossyrock,

We need to determine which I frame you have before you shop for grips.

For example, Erich's 32 is an Improved I frame as he said which uses the old I frame/Baby J size grips.

His is not a Pre Mod 30 which is the Model of 1953 New Model I and uses the New I & 1953 New J frames long grip size.

The purpose of the term "Pre Model" is one way to tell the difference between these two models when understood and used correctly, but when used as above, it only confuses the issue. No offense meant to Erich, it's an all too common misunderstanding. As an anology, he's saying he has a Galaxy Thunderbird; yes they're both Fords but two completely different models.

Does yours have the roundish trigger guard like Erich's?

Your serial # or partial serial # will help us confirm which I frame that you actually have.

Originally Posted by Erich

I've got a pre-30 in an Improved I-frame

All the 1950s I frames shown here:

LEFT SIDE:
.32 HE pre-war I frame Model 1903 (2nd Model)-5th Change, 3 ¼” produced Oct. 16, 1913, top;
.32 Regulation Police Transitional Post war I Frame w/Rd sight, 3 ¼”, 6 screw, ‘double pinch’ thumb piece, rebated sq butt, c. 1949, next;
.32 HE Pure post war ‘early’ Improved I Frame w/coil spring, Rd sight, 2”, 5 screw, ‘single pinch’ thumb piece, rd butt, c. late 1951, bottom. This version of the I frame has the same features as the early round sight Baby J/Chiefs.

RIGHT SIDE:
.32 HE ‘late’ Improved I w/ramp sight & barrel rib, 3”, 5 screw, 2nd style flat latch, rd butt, shipped late 1952, top;
.32 R.P. Model of 1953 New I frame (Pre Model 31), 3”, 4 screw, 2nd style flat latch, sq butt, c. 1954, next;
.32 R.P. Target Transitional I, 4”, 6 screw, 4th (final type) thumb piece, rebated sq butt, one of 196 from 1957 only, next;
.32 R.P. J frame Model 31-1, 3”, 3 screw, sq butt, 1980, bottom.

[Erich]

Thank you for the clarification, Hondo44: I'm no expert and it appears I've been using the wrong descriptor. I'm very grateful to learn the correct terminology and even more so for the gracious kindness with which you made your gentlemanly correction.

[Hondo44]

Erich,

You're very welcome.

[H Richard]

The first .32 HE I acquired some years ago has some ugly plastic grips, and I sought out for a factory stocks. I soon discovered they are in short supply. I bought a pair of rosewood J Frame stocks (aftermarket smooth finish) and modified them to fit the Improved I frame. I think it took me nearly 5 years to locate some period correct stocks for 1953. Since that time I have added two additional 32 HE's, both 2", one form 1952, and the most recent from 1957 (but not model # marked). These joined my ever growing list of .32's, (inc. a newly acquired 431PD which just shipped from the factory April 2016, in spite of the fact they had ceased production 10 years ago. Roy is "guessing" the factory found some parts and assembled whatever they could, and I believe one large Sports Center in Ohio bought them all.

[Erich]

Say, for the OP...

I saw a set of parts with grips that might be of interest: stand by for pm

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

[raljr1]

I am pretty sure I have an extra set of stocks for my Regulation Police target model. These would be round to sq butt. I will look after the holiday and send you a photo if you're interested.

[DocB]

This one is a pre M30 improved I frame. Probably made around 1955. The grips are very different. It's such a tiny gun when compared to my M31 from 1970. Smith really got it right back in the early 1950's.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by DocB

This one is a pre M30 improved I frame. Probably made around 1955. The grips are very different. It's such a tiny gun when compared to my M31 from 1970. Smith really got it right back in the early 1950's.

DocB,

That is a screamer, a beautiful Model of 1953 (Pre Model 30) and nickel to boot!

However, the SCSW introduced confusion between the true Improved I frame introduced in 1952 on the old I frame with 5 screws; the coil mainspring being the improvement, and your 1953 New Model I frame (a true pre model).

Erich has an Improved I in post #3 above. Notice it doesn't have the 6th screw, the tension screw for a leaf spring, but it doesn't look like yours and it's a 5 screw.

Your pre model 30 is officially a "Model of 1953 .32 Hand Ejector" built on the "new" I frame with 4 until ~ #640980, and finally only 3 screws. "New Model" I because it's built on a brand new I frame forging; please see post #10 and below.

Here are a few pix to help illustrate the differences between the pre war I/post war Transitional I/ "Improved I”, and the “New I” frame revolvers:

Top gun shown is a post war .22/32 Kit Gun Transitional I frame, which is what the I frame and the Improved I frame (with coil mainspring) .32 and .38/32 look like sans target sights (no Improved I frame .22/32s were ever made). 'Improved I' frames in .32 and .38 S&W will have a round sight on the early versions and have a ramped front sight with ribbed barrel on the late versions, pre 1953.

Bottom Kit Gun is a Model of 1953 "New I frame" (the true Pre-Model 34), with coil mainspring, micro-click sight, new wide target hammer, ramp front sight, barrel rib, flat latch, and only had 4, and after 1956, 3 screws.

It still has the I size main frame cyl window length, but the New I forging trigger guard size and round butt grip frame length, 1/8" longer than the pre war, post war transitional I, Improved I, and Baby J frame. To see the difference, compare the amount of un-checkered wood below the checkering field on the stocks. The new Model of 1953 sq butt available option for all the New I frames is an additional 5/32” longer (not shown).

[Mossyrock]

Gentlemen;

Very educational! The serial number on my little pile of ugly is 573906. Given the serial number and 2" barrel, I am going to guess a 1949 date of manufacture. The finish is in bad shape, and under the grips was a rash of orange rust. Looks like I have another rust bluing project. Will J-frame springs fit this little beast?

If this IS a 1949 gun, this will make the fourth one I have. I also have two 1949 Combat Masterpieces and a k-38.

[Hondo44]

Mossyrock,

A '49 era 32 Hand Ejector would have 6 screws and a leaf mainspring.

From your serial, it's Jan-Feb 1952 vintage Improved I frame, 5 screw.

That's a good thing because J frame leaf springs do not exist.

However its coil spring and the 1953 New I frame, the Baby J, and the 1953 New J frame will all interchange as well as all other springs.

Yours has the early 1st post war new style, scarce double pinch cyl release thumb piece.

The hammer spur looks like it may have dropped on and chipped or welded a bit as a repair. These post war to 1953 hammers are not too hard to find and interchange with 38 S&W I frames and 38 Spl J frames.

[hardcase60]

Moosyrock,

She ain't that ugly. Trust me I have seen and own a lot worse. My 28-2 is so bad she refuses to be photographed. hardcase60

[Mossyrock]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Mossyrock,


The hammer spur looks like it may have dropped on and chipped or welded a bit as a repair.

I was wondering about that. I thought the hammer profile looked a little off. The checkering and borders on top of the hammer are intact, but there is slight evidence that things were heated up at one time. Regardless, it is not new work. Can't say I am too worried about this little popper from a collector's perspective. I will probably give it a VERY careful polish to preserve the roll marks and rust blue it, along with some new grips. Heck, if I get REAL ambitious, I might have the hammer and trigger re-color cased....which would probably cost more than I have into the gun in the first place. :-)

[Hondo44]

From a friend:

"I recommend http://www.classicgunsinc.com/

Fair price and quick turnaround. I polished the hammers myself and sent to them, they charged $35 each and I got them back in three weeks."

[merl67]

Mossyrock if that pretty little Smith is your version of ugly I would hate to see what you think of a few of my rescued ones !

[Mossyrock]

You should have seen it before I cleaned it up. Active orange rust all over the place! But, at least no one has electro-pencilled their SSN on it like my 5-screw Highway Patrolman. THAT'S one I really need to spend some time on...