Just joined so I could try to determine what my father-in-law shoot back in a tournament in Guatemala for my wife. He was fairly famous back there and one of her cousins sent her a picture of his competing and being given a trophy. I am going to hope to attach the picture here and hope you who are more familiar with S&W revolvers than I am can let me know what you trhink it is so I can buy one for her to hang with the picture and also shoot. I thank you all for your help up front.

Attached Files

Papa shooting S&W.pdf (557.0 KB, 644 views)

Maybe a post war 38/44 Outdoorsman?

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Eccentric old coot

looks like it could be a 44spl. bore looks bigger than 38spl.

great picture!!

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George Jamison

The above comments, and my thoughts as well, are that the gun is
probably an N-frame, and not a K-frame ( Model 14). There appears
to be something handing down from the bottom of the barrel. It
looks like an extractor rod housing. I'm guessing the time-frame of
this picture is 1950's. If so, K-frames didn't have extractor housings,
but N-frames did. With adjustable sights, the gun would be a
38 or 44 caliber large-frame revolver.

It would be helpful if you can tell us the approximate date of the
picture.

Mike Priwer

notice the box on the table infront of him....Cool with that front sight it looks like a 1950 target.

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

I would say an N-Frame of some sort. The box looks like it may be a gold box so 1-50's time frame?

Attached Files

Enlarged.pdf (557.0 KB, 95 views)

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Sceva
OGCA SWCA NRA

i think it is the dark blue or the burgundy box

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

That's no 38 and, sure looks like an N frame. My guess would be a model 1950 or a target model triple lock.

I think a .44 or .45. Certainly a N-frame target-sighted model, not a postwar (M-1950) as it has no barrel rib. It definitely has the lug to protect the extractor rod.
A Triple-Lock Target or target-sighted M-1926?

Could be the postwar version of the latter, before it was replaced by the M-1950.

Great photo. The hat, the glasses, and the S&W. That gentleman had good taste.

IMHO, if you look carefully you can tell that the bullets in the cylinder are 230gr ball ammo, ie a 45 ACP.

Gentlemen, thank you all for your replies, the timing of the tournament is supposedly pre world war II, 1939-40 according to my 91 year old Mother-in-law, and who am I to argue? Seriously I was thinking the bullets looked more like the 44-45 range but then I was thinking recoil. My father-inilaw was the champion pistol marksman for all of Guatemala for a while and this was a contest with Mexico. There has always been bad blood between the countries as Mexico continues to claim to be the home of the Mayan civilization, which Guatemala rigorously denies. Well the rumour is that he was drinking and the President told the army to go get him, threw on the train to Mexico with a hangover, and when he came back eith the trophy to the open arms of the President, all was forgiven. My Father-in-law had wanted to be a professional soldier, going to a military school in Kentucky and then wanted to continue to West Point as he had a dual citizenship with the US, but his father told him no, he needed to run the family business and he was not happy after that. So please update your guesses for me as I would really like to get a matching pistol. It was his favorite, but unfortunately stolen before he passed away. My Mother-in-law is sure that it was a Smith & Wesson as that was all he would shoot. Thanks again for your assistance.

Despite the seeming large bore I think this has to be a .38-44 Outdoorsman, whose barrel walls are actually fairly thin near the muzzle. That can lead to a misperception of the actual bore diameter. Note the amount of steel between the charge holes in the cylinder; there just isn't that much meat in the web of larger caliber cylinders. The blue box on the table is not legible in the conventional sense, but the blurs on the side of the box are consistent with the pattern of letters and quotation marks on the '30s-era blue picture box, which reads "Smith & Wesson ''38=44'' Outdoorsman's Revolver" between two S&W logos. If you let yourself believe, you can see the bottom of two 4s right above the thumb cut-out on the box top, and you can see the elevated blur for the following elevated double quotation mark.

Great photo. Great glasses. Great story.

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David Wilson

also, the grips look to be ropers or some other target grips....very large

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

Pre war OD. The cylinder holes look small and the barrel looks thin under that sight.

I am glad he isn't aiming at me, steely stare there.

Bullseye shooting is conducted with 3 guns - 22, Center Fire (usually a 32 or 38) and 45. Unless their rules are different from the NRA, it wouldn't make any sense to use a 44 for the Center fire stage. Therefore, I would suggest it is either a 38 or 45 caliber revolver.

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Dick

Okay, I have sat and stared along with the rest of you. I've found three things that inspire even the slightest bit of confidence. First, I agree it has a round barrel----also I agree it has an ejector rod shroud. Those two items rule out a whole bunch of guns. The last thing I found was I believe the front sight is taller than the diameter of the barrel. And when I say "I believe", it means just that---opinion.

So, I took some guns off the shelf----and grabbed a yard stick. I would have grabbed something fancier, but the fancy stuff is in my shop----which entails a short walk outside---and it's raining. The barrel diameter of a (pre-war) 38-44 Outdoorsman is about a half inch. So is the barrel diameter of a Triplelock Target (44). So is the barrel diameter of a "Model of 1926" Target. The front sight of the 38-44 is less than a half inch high----above the barrel. The front sight of both 44's is more than a half inch high.

It's one or the other of the 44's----and that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

Ralph Tremaine

And if you're going to get one like it to hang on the wall along with the picture, then this old saying applies: "This is serious business----bring money!"

You fellers just ain't use to lookin' at the business end of a revolver from this perspective.

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Eccentric old coot

I would note that the sun angle appears to be from the shooter's back/right side. Given the brightness of the reflection/light density of the bullets in the cylinder, I don't think that a lead projectile would give off the same "shine" as a FMJ, which is apparent here. Unless FMJ was prevalent in other than .45 in competitive shooting circles back then, I'd have to guess .45 also.

Just an observation.

Was the gun even made in .45ACP? And given safety concerns, the cylinder may be empty. That could be light in the chambers.

Would someone with both .38 and .44 guns of this basic model look at the muzzles of both and tell us which it is? Photos?

Great picture. Looks like he may have been the real Indiana Jones!

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

I agree this is some type of N-frame with a round non-ribbed barrel, an ejector rod shroud, and a tall front sight. But I have to diasagree with it being a .44 or .45.

Take another close look at the business end of the revolver-in-question's cylinder, and in particular note the thickness of the metal around the chambers. The chamber walls of this revolver's cylinder appear to be about 1/2 as thick as the diameter of the chambers themselves. For a .44 or .45 caliber N-frame the chamber wall thickness at this end of the cylinder is closer to only 1/4 the diameter of the chambers, and is noticeably very much thinner - in fact it is downright fragile-looking by comparison.

It has to be a .38 caliber.

My two-cents.
TL

The .38 Special was available in a myriad of loadings, including FMJ. And then there was the .38 Special "Super Police" which, as loaded by the Western Cartridge Company, carried a 200-grain Lubaloy-coated bullet giving the appearance of being a FMJ.

Attached Images

38 Super Police.jpg (5.6 KB, 9 views)

The 200 grain .38 is an unlikely match load. Usually, wadcutters were used.

I believe the family has established that the photo was taken in 1940-41. This is in a post here.

That is a Pre-War 38 Outdoorsman.
Thick cyl and barrel walls
Shroud
No Rib
Magna grips
Glossy pre-war dark blue box with dark red interior

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Anyone who has done a lot of NRA Bulls eye shooting would be using 38 Spl WC loads.
You go through lots of ammo in the matches & practicing.
All the old guys when I did BE shooting used .45 ACP revolvers.
Looks like 230 gr FMJ .45 ACP in the cylinder. Since the country supplies the ammo.