I recently bought an early hand ejector for fifty bucks thinking it was a paper weight. Uh, re-blued; mismatched cylinder (serial number); wouldn't lock up. Didn't seem to matter since the hammer/trigger were frozen. Not bad shape overall though. A friend said the grips alone were worth fifty.

Anyways, I thought to bring it to a gunsmith nearby and was somewhat surprised to hear that it's fixable for about 75 dollars. Huh.

But, the clerk told me that the smith said that it takes .32 long colt ammo. A little checking shows that to be an extinct cartridge, but quite similar to a .32 S&W which the same store has right behind the counter.

What's the deal? I can't wait to see it again. It's the only 5-screw I own!

Congratulations! Those little I frames can be addictive. They're quite accurate, too!

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SV,14,17,21,28,29,39,66,586

Those little guns are fun to shoot, and can be quite accurate. I think the smith or his clerk misunderstood the chambering. S&W never made a revolver for the .32 Colt cartridge (which was really about .30 caliber) and chambered their early hand ejectors in .32 S&W Long, which is the slightly more powerful version of the original .32 S&W that they used in their small top-break centerfire revolvers in the late 1800s. When S&W won the .32 caliber fight in the marketplace, Colt began producing revolvers that chambered that round but called it the .32 Colt New Police in order to keep from giving any recognition to S&W. The Colt-branded cartridge carried a slightly different bullet.

A Smith & Wesson .32 would say SMITH & WESSON on one side of the barrel and .32 S&W LONG CTG on the other. There would be some patent dates on top of the barrel.

A total investment of $125 for a serviceable .32 shooter sounds like a good deal to me. For $75, the smith must have figured the gun needed not much more than a good cleaning and maybe a spring or two to get back in service.

Please post pics when you get it back.

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David Wilson

I will be delighted to post pix. I expect it back next week.
Thanks for the replies.

A shootable 32 Hand Ejector for $125 total? What a deal! You'll have a ball with it and just cannot lose! Pictures are a requirement, though. Congratulations and enjoy.

Froggie

What a great introduction to obtaining a Smith little 32! Bravo, another old timer brought back to life. Can't wait to see it.

And oh yeah, never believe anything a 'clerk' tells you about guns w/o validation from non-clerks.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

GA 1911, I think iwanna found something a little earlier... it would have been hard for one like you picture to have had time to age that much, shy of outright abuse! Regardless, all of the "little frame" guns go great with the 32 S&W Long cartridge, don't they? That little square butt snubbie you have there is a pretty rare unit. Is it marked Mod 31 dash something? I hope you are getting the most out of it by shooting it a lot. The nickel 3" would be nice to take to a Bar-B-Que in a fancy holster rig. Thanks for sharing.

Regards,
Froggie

Sorry. After TWO MONTHS, NOT TWO WEEKS, I'm still waiting. I've practically forgotten what the thing looked like. In fact, I was talking to one of the guys up at the shop... The question of how many Smiths I own came up and it seemed I was coming up one short in my memory. Of course! The one I had forgotten all about. They'll be getting a call next week.

Now it seems I've neglected this thread like my gun smith has neglected me! Believe me, I'll get the camera out just as soon as I get it back.

Well just to keep us salivating to see it, did it have wood grips or black hard rubber. Did it have a short barrel like the blue gun above or the longer like the nickel gun?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Well, I've just gone from one extreme to the other... I found a $75 Reg Police in 38 S&W (has a badly bulged barrel) and parts to fix it for less than I had dared hope; next I found a 32 Reg Police Target for well over 10 times as much. I-frame Smiths, like any other finite collectibles are where and how you find them.

As for the long wait for the OP's repair of his 32 I-frame, it seems that some gunsmiths follow a different calendar than the rest of us. It may have to do with parts availability, other work getting in the way, or just being over busy and unable to estimate how long it will take for work to get done. Hang in there, it will still be a bargain!

Froggie

"... it seems that some gunsmiths follow a different calendar than the rest of us."

I have come to believe that gunsmith years are inversely proportional to dog years.

Repairing anything is tough to estimate. Automotive repairs even have step by step instructions and times required published in manuals but how many get them done on time as estimated.

Gun repairs are much worse; even the masters like Bowen, etc., will give you an estimate for their packages that they do regularly and always take longer. The local one or two man shop gunsmiths answer thier own phones and are the same guys that sweep up the place at night.

I'd rather wait longer and get it back done right. Somebody once said; you can have speed or you can have quality, but you can't have both. Probably the same guy who said; if I wanted it done next week, I'd of brought it in next week.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

The .32 has the black grips and the longer barrel--3" if memory serves. When I bought it I figured the grips were worth something since they were in nice shape.

I'll be going right back to the gunsmith with a 27-2 I bought from that store last week. Nice shape, but needs a rear sight repair (I learn when I get home). Looks like a stripped adjustment screw. Grrr. My fault. Should have seen it. I don't want to wait for months again, but the guy is right around the corner.

The gunsmith is a 'man of few words'. Not known for being friendly.

Gunsmiths are technicians/craftsmen and can be like artists in some respects. It seems to be a trait of some, especially some good ones. Some get that way after being badgered by customers ignorant of guns who complain about repair prices or lead time.

Well the black rubber grips, if original, date your gun to early last century, probably a .32 Hand Ejector Third Model. But the serial number will help pin it down closer. If the barrel looks more like a 3" that would make it the 3 1/4", the shortest standard length of the time period.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I think you're exactly right on the model. Going by my fading memory (we only had a few precious moments together--sniff), I believe mine is the same as the one pictured 2nd from the top on p. 127 of Supica's Standard Catalog.

To tell the truth, I might be one of those "ignorant fools". I've been dealing with this gunsmith for years and I'm sure I've gotten on his nerves in several different ways. Funny. It seems I always find a way to make a fool of myself around people I genuinely respect.

I sent my wife up to check on the repair status the other day. I figured the guy might actually talk to her. Which was true. The clerks told her that, "He's in a good mood today."

Oh, it has two different serial numbers. I noticed that. The cylinder is a mis-match which might explain the crazy chambering question. The gunsmith insists that it's a .32 Long Colt. Oh, great, an extinct cartridge. So I will have to badger the 'smith one more time and make him take me by the hand and explain one more time why it says .32 S&W on the barrel. The store sells that ammo. It's in stock.

Well, I bought it as a paperweight with maybe saleable grips. Now I know it's at least a very interesting paperweight.

I'll check back in two more months.

iwana,

This gun is very interesting. The only way to get a 32 Long chambered cylinder for a S&W is to fit a Colt cylinder but that wouldn't be likely for several reasons, the worst of which is that it rotates in the opposite direction. The much more plausible way would be to rechamber a Smith 22 cal cylinder and possibly the reason for the mismatched serial #.

However, the wisdom for doing either escapes me since your barrel seems to be original and marked 32 S&W Long. The 32 L Colt bullet is smaller in diameter and would just rattle down the S&W barrel! Although the older heeled bullet (like a 22, same diameter as the case) version would work well.

I researched the .32 centerfire cartridges for you from oldest to newest:

32 Short Colt w/ heeled bullet .311" diameter
32 L Colt w/ heeled bullet .311" diameter
32 L Colt w/ modern inside lubricated bullet nominally .280" diameter
32 S&W (original length), .311" bullet
32 S&W Long same as above but longer case for more powder,.311" bullet
32 Colt New Police, virtually the same cartridge and bullet diam. as the S&W Long and interchangeable. Made for Colt so that they wouldn't have to mark their guns 32 S&W.

Some comments: the 32 S&W and 32Colt NP are a little too fat and will not chamber in 32 Short or Long Colt chambers.
32 Short or Long Colt will chamber and shoot in 32 S&W and 32Colt NP chambers but is ill advised; the cases bulge and/or split. And as I said above unless they were the very obsolete heeled bullet cartridges, accuracy would be nill in your barrel unless your barrel was relined for the later, smaller 32 L Colt bullets.

I wish you lived close, I'd love to get that gun in my hands with a Mic for just 5 minutes and know for sure what you have and if the barrel is relined.

Since the work hasn't been done yet it might be a blessing! This might be the time to get the gun back from the gunsmith! Why put money into a gun you can't find cartridges for except at collector prices! And most likely cartridges that are too old to shoot anyway.

I would ask the gunsmith for a chamber diameter of your gun and if he sees evidence of a lined barrel. A good eye can tell by looking at the barrel muzzle. A 32 S&W/32 Colt NP chamber measures .336" and a 32 L Colt chamber measures .317".

Possible solution:
Pre WW II and post war pre 1960 (either would fit your gun) 32 S&W barrel and cylinder sets are easy to find on Gunbroker for $50 give or take a few bucks. The gunsmith could just change them. Then you'd have a safe, shootable gun.

Hope this helps,

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks so much for the research! I'll call the gun smith on Monday and try to get to the bottom of this. I agree this has gone on far longer than I anticipated, especially with this chamber issue hanging over my head.

I'll print out what you said and get his explanations and recommendations.

I should have the answer early next week. I hope he's in a good mood and talkative! --Man of few words.

I just wish there was a way to see him in person. Trouble is, his work hours are the same as mine.

Thanks again! This project has kind of taken on a life of its own.

I finally got it back after four months, un-fixed. The claim is:'Can't get parts for it.". Well, this smith is good for some things. Kind of hit-and-miss. The barrel says .32 long cartridge. Serial 121251

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That gun looks great (for 50 bucks). It is begging to be fixed and shot. If you can't get it up and running, use it in a shadow box display. It's 32 S&W Long and ammo is readily available.

That's a nice looking gun, especially for $50! The cylinder doesn't match and as you said, the serial # indicates it's a replacement. The serial # on the but indicates it's a .32 Hand Ejector Model of 1903 (2nd Model, 5th Change). It has the 4 1/4" barrel. The screw above the right grip is a replacement since it looks flat but should be domed. From what I can make out the serial # dates it to the 1910 to 1917 period.

The hammer spur looks longer than normal and may have been broken off and repaired which was not uncommon if dropped.

I expect the gunsmith tried a few sources for parts but didn't want to waste anymore time and gave up. It's definitely worth fixing in my view. I would send it to David Chicoine for a repair estimate. He's a master at repairing old Smiths and has his own extensive parts inventory.

Dave Chicoine: Performs repairs on all Tip-Ups, Top-Breaks and Hand-ejectors up to 1920; author of many gunsmithing books.
Phone: 704-8253-0265
e-Mail: [email protected]
Web site: oldwestgunsmith.com

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I'm going to try to get it fixed, and re-chambered if necessary. Thanks for the reference. I'll post any progress.

There shouldn't be any need to rechamber this revolver. If S&W made it, it is almost surely a 32 S&W Long already, and this is the most abundant cartridge that is available for this class of revolver. You cannot rebore the cylinder to 38 S&W because that caliber only allows 5 chambers and your cylinder already has 6! As has been suggested, if you want the gun to shoot, get it to a gunsmith who knows something about S&W revolvers (like David Chicoine, for instance) and it should be up and running in no time. It is meant to be shot and enjoyed!

JMHO - YMMV
Froggie

I think you probably meant rechambered to 32 S&W Long if it isn't already. But if that's necessary, factory 32 S&W Long cylinders are very available on Gunbroker or Chicoine and would be much cheaper than rechambering.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I was a little confused about the caliber and availability. I really don't want to change if there's no need. I'll contact David Chicoine soon. Thanks again for all the help! It's a cool little revolver. I prefer the small frames. My three inch bull 36-1 is a total favorite for some reason although I own far more valuable firearms.

A question about the action: are the hammer and trigger still frozen? When you talk about lock-up, do you mean the cylinder spins freely? If so, does the cylinder still spin if you hold the gun upside down?

I just can't imagine that a nicely refinished revolver like that one would have so many internal problems. It's almost as though it was reassembled incorrectly or incompletely after being refinished.

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David Wilson

Right. She's frozen up good. When I got it, I was able to get the cylinder to open. That's how I noticed the mis-match serial numbers. Now since the 'smith had at it, the cylinder won't even open. (Okay, I don't want to be too hard on the 'smith, even though he's disappointed me about every other time.)

Hammer won't go back. Trigger stuck. Cylinder never would close all the way it seemed. I guess I bought it as a refinished parts gun. I'll get it fixed pretty soon if it's at all reasonable. I really like the little thing. My one and only 5-screw.

Don't give up yet. That gun looks too nice to be a parts gun. I can't believe someone re-blued that if it was toast! You need to have an avid S&W fan who is familiar with I Frames (or older J and K frames for that matter, they are all so similar), open it up and look at it to determine what is the problem. They may not be able to fix it, but at least you would know why. If you have no one locally, I would volunteer to do it at no charge, just the shipping.

My suspicion is it was someone's "parts gun" and they didn't know what they were doing when assembling it. Possibly have incorrect parts in it.

I am not a gunsmith, but I am familiar inside an I Frame. I think I could at least find out what the problem is. PM me if you are interested.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

No. I won't give up on it unless the repair cost is higher than the value. I'm not a 'smith by any means, but I think I can tell this one will be okay. Maybe a missing part.

I might take you up on that PM! Thanks!

It looks like the thumb release is stuck in the forward position. That would freeze the trigger and hammer. Can you push the thumb release towards the back of the gun? Does that free up the action?

If the cylinder does not completely close, it is possibly being blocked by a bad hand sticking through the face of the recoil shield. If you can get the cylinder open again, look at the vertical slot on the left side of the recoil shield as you face the gun. Can you see anything protruding through the slot?

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David Wilson

I think pushing the thumb release backward did release the cylinder before it went to the 'smith. Now that doesn't work. He included a very small part it a baggie that might be one of the ones needed or the bad one he took out.

Hey! Hey! I finally got it back from the second (competent) gunsmith and she's fixed and ready to go! It cost me 115.00. The guy made a new ejector rod for it and straightened the crane and removed a burr from one of the cylinders.

Now here's my question: The guys behind the counter at Capra's really seemed to take an interest in this one which was kind of cool. When I picked it up, they remembered it and told me that they had just gotten in a shipment of .32 S&W long. I asked if this would work for me (I've been so confused on the ammo issue on this piece) The guy was honest and told me he was 99% sure. He took the time to chamber a round which seems to fit the cylinder length just fine. I bought a box on trust, but now I want to verify before I shoot.

Can anyone tell me with fair certainty that this ammo will work or not?

That cylinder is definitely a S&W cylinder. The barrel is definitely a S&W barrel, and the picture shows ".32 Long Ctg" stamped on the barrel. There is no question, S&W only made one .32 Long. Shoot that .32 S&W Long ammo you have. Your 2nd gunsmith sounds like a more knowledgeable & competent individual.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Thanks! That's why I come here! And, of course, to see all the beautiful Smiths!

Bravo! A $165 32 Hand Ejector and it's all checked out and ready to go. You got a bargain in the final analysis. I have no doubt it's chambered for and the proper ammo is the S&W .32 Long (and 32 Colt New Police which you won't find)!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Range Report!! This thread is begging for a range report after we vicariously followed your trials and tribulations. I'm guessing it will turn into another favorite like your Model 36... shooting the little 32 caliber has that effect on folks! I have finally gotten everything together to load for this caliber with a little 95 grain semi-wadcutter (old Lyman mould) and am in Hog Heaven!! I hope all is well now with yours.

Froggie

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WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

I plan to bring it with me up to the cabin next month and try it out. But, I might treat myself to the local indoor range in the meantime.

I will post a report.

Now I have all 5 frame sizes. The .32; my beloved 36-1; a Model 48; a model 686; and a model 629.

Oh how I love to be an enabler....but you still need an M frame :')! (tongue in cheek)

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Jim
S&WCA #819

That range report may be delayed yet again. I have a burr on the barrel face. I forgot about that these long months and I can only guess that the 'smith somehow missed it. It's plain to see even looking down from the muzzle. Looks fixable to me, but I'd better have it checked out.

I noticed it when I took the revolver apart for the grips-off "G96 treatment".

It's just not that scientific to remove a burr on a non-match gun. Chances are it won't even show up in your accuracy. It's certainly not unsafe. Take a piece of 400 or 600 crokus cloth or wet or dry sandpaper
wrapped around the pointy end of a pencil and remove it first. Then go shoot it.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Sorry. I meant the forcing cone.

I'm gonna try that! Thanks!

Ah, I ended up using a round jewelers file from the muzzle. The file has a long coated handle anyway, just like a cleaning rod. The angle was right. I'm happy. And relieved.

I may have to wait a few weeks to try it. Deer season is coming and in a few weeks I'll be bringing far too many guns up to the cabin. Otherwise, I'm considering a little treat of indoor range time.

Thanks. Maybe this one doesn't need to go back to the 'smith for a hundred more years.

Will post range report.

My friend studied the revolver and is convinced that the first 'smith, the gorilla around the corner, only glanced at the side of the barrel where it says: .32 LONG CTG and thought he saw .32 LONG COLT! We both just hate this guy, but I got to use his services sometimes just because he's walking distance away. Maybe never again though. The 'smith across town has a great reputation. The job got done quick and efficient.

Quote: My friend studied the revolver and is convinced that the first 'smith, the gorilla around the corner, only glanced at the side of the barrel where it says: .32 LONG CTG and thought he saw .32 LONG COLT! We both just hate this guy, but I got to use his services sometimes just because he's walking distance away. Maybe never again though. The 'smith across town has a great reputation. The job got done quick and efficient.

The bitter taste of poor quality lasts long after the tempting aroma of low price (or convenience) is gone. Go with the one who will fix it right the first time. Which takes longer: driving across town or waiting until you've forgotten you owned the gun?

By the way, that little .32 will make a fine companion in the deer woods.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

My little I-frame, s/n 985xx, has a 4 1/4" barrel and says 32 long ctg. on the left side of the barrel. It shoots 32 S&W long or short and chambers 32 Short Colt. It's a neat little gun that's fun to shoot.

Rod


. .

Rod,
The .32 Colt Short and Long Colt cartridges are smaller diameter than the 32 S&W. But the 32 Colt New Police cartridge is exactly the same size with flat nosed bullet and will shoot as accurate as the S&W cartridges. You can also safely chamber and shoot the 32 ACP cartridge which is a semi rimless cartridge, not a true rimless round.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

The bitter taste of poor quality lasts long after the tempting aroma of low price (or convenience) is gone. Go with the one who will fix it right the first time. Which takes longer: driving across town or waiting until you've forgotten you owned the gun?

By the way, that little .32 will make a fine companion in the deer woods.[/QUOTE]

You are right. This is the first time I've tried (Larry), but I've always heard good things. I'm told he even does engraving. I'll never go back to the gorilla.

Say, this would make a neat little holster gun for around the cabin. The same friend I mentioned has frequently suggested this or that pistol of mine for that purpose. He always carries while in the woods. I never do. He carried a .22 for years, but he's all the way up to a S&W .44 mag these days. Says he's concerned about the rise in the local wolf population.

Let's see how it works first. Maybe next week at the indoor range.

Jim:
Your correct, the 32 Short Colt has a smaller diameter case, but the bullet seems tight enough. . I've not shot any of the Short Colt in fear the case will split. If I recall correctly the cylinder meas. .336 and SW cartridges measure .334. . The 32 Short Colt case meas .315. A tad loose. . The antique box of 32 Colt is still full.

Yes, I've shot 32 ACP in my I-frame and they work fine. If I push too hard on the extractor rod the rims will sometimes slip underneath, but still fall clear. . The 32 ACP chambers in my Lemon Squeezer, as well, but I believe they're too stout for the little gun.

Rod

The oldest, cheapest gun I own is a 1919 HE in 32 long. It is also, irritatingly, insanely accurate at 100 yds. The extremely thin front sight blade and teeny little rear notch don't leave any room for any interpretation about where to point it. I had been shooting it with a Wondersight, and it was okay, but since I started shooting it using the factory sights, it's a wonder all by itself. I thought it was a parts gun when I bought it!

Interesting comment about the sights. No room for interpretation...

I wonder if that's why my little Beretta Bobcat is so accurate (within its limits--10yds)?

I bought and sold a Japanese Nambu that had similar sights--very fine for a pistol. Never shot it though. Not much-what is it- 8mm Jap around.

My most accurate pistol has always been my Model 41, and it has big honkin' sights.

Congrats on the effort and getting a great, working
shooter. You get extra points in my book for putting that
rascal back in action!
TACC1