Just won this cut barrel S&W 1917 .45 acp revolver at an online auction yesterday. Description said it is locked up, not operable and not to be shot in this condition (Uh...duh).




It is obvious from the under barrel lug locking pin sticking forward in the lug under the barrel, that the cylinder release is stuck in the OPEN position. Haven't received it yet, but when it arrives and I get it from my dealer, it will be immersed into a pan of Kroil penetrating oil for several days. Then I'll use a dental pick to clean as much as I can get to, and work on it until I can get it to release the cylinder. No doubt I will completely disassemble it and go over everything with a fine tooth comb (so to speak).

Once I get everything operating correctly I will sand and buff to remove all pits and corrosion and then back immersed in the oil it will go until I can get it to someone who does a really good job on hot bluing. I have a friend who knows someone locally who can do a really good hot tank blue job on it. No considerations needed regarding buffing and refinishing towards collect ability with this little rust bucket's current condition.

The only hard decision I have to make is if I want to put another barrel on it or make my own 1917 looking front sight and simply torch solder that onto the existing cut barrel (if the rifling is good) to make a snubbie like someone I know called Buckeye's S&W 1917 .45 acp snubby below.....



At first I was thinking I'd like to have a 5 & 1/2 inch barrel like it came with originally, so it would be kind of a match for my S&W 1917 commercial model below...


But now I'm wondering if maybe I'd like a snubby and just get another full length barrel 1917 when I see another good deal.

I'm fully aware of the special tools needed to remove the barrel, wherein you shouldn't use a hammer handle on the frame to turn it off the barrel for fear of bending and ruining the frame. I know to put a replacement full length barrel on it that I need to either cast my own plastic halves for fitting to the frame to hold it securely to unscrew it from the barrel, or else get to a COMPETENT gunsmith (emphasis on COMPETENT) who has those special frame insert tools.

So what do you fellas think? Replace the barrel with a full length replacement or make a half moon front sight and solder it on the snubby barrel and keep it that way? Decisions decisions.




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Here's a pic of my 1917 with 2" 625-10 barrel and cylinder. Lots of hand fitting but I think it turned out great.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Very neat piece. Reckon the barrel decision could turn on the condition of the existing metal, including bore. I would tend to leave it at current length, and add sight, as you have suggested.

Please keep us in the loop!

Regards,

Dyson

That's a sweet snubby 1917 you've got there cgt4570
Looks like it turned out great to me too.
I like the little round ring you replaced the original lanyard loop with.
Any problems with replacing the barrel?


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SNUBBY! SNUBBY!

Yes, I was also thinking my decision would be predicated on the condition of the rifling. I will keep y'all in the loop as to its restoration progress when I start on it.


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I always loved projects like this. The Stags alone are worth a few hundred. CONGRATS!!

Thanks! But alas, the stag grips on the cut barrel snubby were listed as plastic in the auction description.



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Get it to working first then go to the range and see how well you can shoot it without the front sight-instinctive style-you might be surprised.

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Forum consigliere

I guess a lot would depend on what you end up with when you get it and have it operational. If the bore and/or chambers are a total mess, you may have to replace both barrel and cylinder.

If everything is usable, I might be inclined to just properly crown the barrel, put a proper-looking front sight on it, and call it a day. As the Cajunlawyer says, a bit of initial shooting will tell more the tale. It is not hard to improvise some sort of front sight which will last for a dozen shots or so and tell you more about what you have there.

If those stocks are in fact plastic, they are darned convincing-looking! Look like the real thing to me.

If the barrel and cylinder are good, I'd keep it a snubby. Lots of promise in that old revolver.

Charlie

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SWCA # 2294

Good idea, I'll do just that. Only I don't have to go to a range, I can shoot it on my property as I live in the country on acreage.


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You know I thought the same thing. Although the auction description said they were plastic, I think they look very real too. Variations in the coloring unlike most plastic grips. Sure would be nice when I get it to find out that the description was wrong and they are truly stags.


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I'm kinda leaning that way....if the bore and chambers are good.


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It looks like it's locked up because the ejector rod has unscrewed, binding against the locking lug. Use a scrap of leather and plyers to see if the ejector rod will screw back in some. It's standard right-hand threads.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Thanks I'll try that when it comes in. It also could be crud under the cylinder release button jamming it in the forward release position.



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I saw that one and was real tempted to bid. I've got way too projects underway to get another one! Best of luck!

I would lean towards keeping it short, but with a front sight installed. Something like a 3" barrel should be very handy.

Conversion to a snub is something to think about if I get a chance to pick up another .45 HE.

If it were my gun, I'd shorten the barrel to the end of the barrel lug, affix a ramp front sight, and round butt it, if the SN allowed.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I vote for a snub. That is some serious stag on that gun!

I'd keep it short as well. I've always bee a fan of Fitz Specials, and that looks like a good candidate! A half nickle silver soldered on the barrel would make an interesting front site.....

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Even older, even crankier....

Just don't cut the trigger guard!!

I vote snubb as well. Interesting project you have there, cant wait to see the out come.

I vote keep it short...even shorter than it is now. I like the snub conversion 1917's...S&W's and Colts.

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C & L

Very nice piece and a fun project gun!

I can tell you right now w/o the slightest doubt that those grips are genuine India Sambar Stag. And I would polish them up and fit them to your gorgeous Commercial model replacing the plastic grips.

Then I agree with most, keep it a snubby, the same length or shorter and solder on a proper original front sight and base. You can get them from old replaced bulged barrels. Get some nice handfilling wood carry grips and round the butt.

This all assuming the original barrel and cylinder checkout OK of course.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

That is great to hear that you are positive they are real stag and India Sambar stag to boot! Value?
I thought those looked like real stag, and it looks like TNDave and M29since14 were right about them being real stag too. But the auction description said this....

"Lot Description:
Barrel Has Been Cut Down, Synthetic Stag Grip, Gun is Locked Up, Can't Loosen Up Cylinder."

What do you suggest I use to polish them with? Also where can I get an old bulged 1917 barrel or front sight cut from a barrel? (From all advice I'm leaning towards keeping it snubby)

On another note, regarding my U.S. commercial model. It has a square rear sight notch and the front sight is ribbed on top and as you can see it is ramped. I thought only the Brazilian models had a square rear notch. Why would my U.S. commercial model have a square rear notch? Also, why does mine have a ribbed ramp front sight instead of the usual half moon front sight?

And by the way, thanks to each and every one of you for all the helpful info and advice thus far fellas. I appreciate it very much. Been here just a short time and already learned a lot not only in this thread but just poking around the other forum threads too.


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I would polish the stag very lightly with 600 paper and clean crevices with a toothbrush. Then a little auto polish-wax. Some say not to use any petroleum products. Were they mine, I would think less is more in the polishing dep't.

The idea of using a dressed-flat trimmed nickel for a sight sounds pretty good, if you silver solder...

Regards,

Dyson

My guess as to value of the stocks is in the $100 to $200 range, so say $150. (I think I remember seeing some that sold for about that recently in the Forum Classifieds.) I will chime in to say they sure look real to me, for what that's worth.

In the late 1920s to early 1930s S&W transitioned from the round top "U Notch Rear Sight" to the flat top "Square Notch Rear Sight". So yours would have been made during or after this time period.

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You're shy a few manners.

Gotta go with A10 on this one. It would be a great candidate for a Fitz job. Maybe just thin the trigger guard instead of cutting it away.

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Always bet on stupidity.

Following Chris's line of thought, I doubt the problem is with the
cylinder release bolt. Even if it were stuck forward, that would not
stop the cylinder from opening. The natural position for the bolt
with the cylinder open is forward, because of its rear-mounted pin
and spring pushing it forward.

It well could be that the extractor rod has come unscrewed slightly,
jaming it up against the extractor rod.

However, I think there is something else going on here. If the
center-pin return spring is working properly, even if the extractor rod
has come loose, the bolt (thumbpiece) would be returned to its
normal position. I can't tell, for sure, if the thumbpiece is jammed
all the way forward - it looks like it not quite all the way. It looks
more like the center pin is stuck in the extractor rod, either because
that assembly is bent, or something corrosive has gotten in there, and
is causing it to be stuck.

The first thing I would do is take the side-plate off, and see what
position the bolt is in. If its not all the way forward, I'd get a rod
up against the rear face of the front part of it, and tap it with a
hammer, to see if it will come loose.

A couple-day soak in Kroil may do the trick, as well.

Mike Priwer

I get the distinct impression that with your abilities you won't have much trouble with the lockup problem. If it were me, I'd probably pull the innards before I put it in to soak, but either way would work.
I think that those grips are the real deal, and since I don't much care for the look of Sambar, I'd likely sell them to help finance the project. If the rifling looks good, I'd vote for the snubby option, along with rounding the grip frame, "melting" all the hard edges and then hard-chrome after a good bead blast. Heck, with my old eyes, I might even stick a truGlo up there on the front. Kind of a new-old school look.

looks good

looks good nice guin

No one else has addressed this, so I'll give it a shot. My best guess is that the front sight was modified by some previous owner (or his gunsmith), well after the revolver left the factory.

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You're shy a few manners.

To show you another possibility, here's the one I have:





My barrel is ~3-3/8". I would have preferred an honest 3.5" so if I had yours that's the gun I would make of it. My $.02 worth.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Many people are unfamiliar with real stag and call them synthetic or call elk antler stag. I only like genuine India Sambar Stag and I've been making things from it for 30 yrs or more and once familiar it's easy to spot. Worth at least $150 or more.

It's a tough material and easy to work.. It may need a slight sanding with 600 paper as was suggested but stay away from the edges and be careful not to round them where they match up to the the grip straps. Ususally a touch-up polish is all that's needed to get surface grime off and return the sheen.

I use a CLEAN white very soft cotton power buffing wheel with white rouge and polish very gently. Again avoid the edges. A dirty buff or colored rouge will instantly ruin them by impregnating the color or dirt in the pores of the stag. Avoid polishing the "bark". Just clean with mild soap and water 1st. White automotive 'polishing' compound (not rubbing compound) and a soft rag will work just as well but with a little more labor.

The com'l 1917 was made before 1929 and may have come with the sq notch rear. But more likely has been squared up because the front was definitely modified; Smith didn't ramp the 1/2 moon sights until the late 50's period. Is there any sign of the gun being reblued or the sights touched up with cold blue? The gun doesn't look reblued but it wouldn't if it went back to the factory for the work. Did you look for a factory 'rework' date on the left side of the grip frame under the grip?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Here's mine.

make a bobber out of it brother........

Thanks for that info Hondo44. No sign of my commercial model being reblued nor touched up with cold blue. But due to its age, I just don't believe it would look like a new gun like it does without being factory refinished. Possible but not likely. I mean it looks brand new. Must be a S&W factory refinish unless it was wrapped in an oily rag and stored in a drawer for 80 years. Haven't taken the grips off yet to check under them to see if there is a factory rework date stamped.

From all advice I'm leaning towards keeping this other cut barrel project revolver as a snub. But then again I have a friend who is offering to sell me a brand new, never installed, 5 & 1/2 inch Brazilian barrel (I.N.A. stamped on right side) for $50.00 (What exactly does I.N.A. stand for?)

Someone told me that the Brazilian barrels have a slightly different contour than the U.S. barrels. Is that true?
Any issues different with installing a Brazilian barrel different from installing a U.S. barrel? Brazilian threads match up with U.S. frame threads?


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I agree with most. I would keep it snub. I would consider adding the front sight with a barrel band if there is enough room. I think it would add a welcome bit of visual balance to the gun. Round butting the grip and bobbing the hammer would also rank highly on my want list.

Looks like a great project. I'm envious.

Bob

You could pick up that barrel and just keep it and later if you change your mind, there you go.

I recall seeing somewhere that the INA stamped 1917 bbls were aftermarket made in the Philipines.
I think Numrich used to sell them.

If the rifling's any good, I'd leave 'as is', mount a site, and call 'er good!

I think INA means made in Brazil by Industria Nacional de Armas.

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You're shy a few manners.

If the barrel has been shot out or ruined by corrosive ammunition, I'd recommend putting on a 3 1/2 inch underlug barrel like there is on the customized 1917 I just bought. That seems to be a compromise between the original length and a 2" barrel. Mine shoots like a dream and is a nice compact piece of machinery.

Would like to find out this.....

Someone told me that the Brazilian barrels have a slightly different contour than the U.S. barrels. Is that true?
Any issues different with installing a Brazilian barrel different from installing a U.S. barrel? Brazilian threads match up with U.S. frame threads?


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If there is a difference in the contour, you probably won't notice it... I didn't. The Brazilian barrel is threaded the same as the ""US" version and is a direct replacement regardless so it would be just like any other routine S&W barrel swap. BTW, $50 is definitely a "friends and family" price for that barrel. I'd jump on it at that price if I had any idea of rebarreling the gun.

Froggie

Is the Brazilian barrel thicker?

Some folks report satisfactory accuracy from their old M1917s, even with a "sewer pipe" barrel. Like so many others have said, I would try to get it up and running as it now is, see how it shoots, then decide what changes (if any) it needs.

Still, it may be smart to hedge your bets by picking up the $50 INA barrel so that you have that option. If you later find you do not need it, some one here will be happy to buy it.

Attaching a functional front sight sure sounds reasonable. Round butting it, replacing the barrel, etc., may be less so.

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You're shy a few manners.

About a brazillianth of an inch...