LOOKING AT THIS PRE-WAR HEAVY DUTY

[lowhog]

I'm looking at this pre war 38/44 heavy duty.The finish looks original for sure and would rate 98 to 99%.The pre-war magna grips are numbered to a latter gun and do not match but are in great shape..The case colors on the hammer and trigger have been removed as seen in the pictures.The seller said I could have it for 1,100.00. Do you think this is to much $ ? And can the trigger and hammer be restored?Mikedsc05776__large.jpg

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[Camster]

The finish removal from the trigger and hammer,the mismatched stocks,are telling to look real hard for the gun being reblued.

[beagleye]

Are you positive it's original blue? I cant tell from the picture but the white trigger and hammer raise a little suspicion. They can be restored, but not for free. If that's important to you maybe reach out to turnbull and chicoine before you pull the trigger on the deal. Maybe there are others out there that could do that work as well.

Probably an interesting deal even if reblued. Even if it was strictly a shooter it''s a darn nice one and if you wanted to cushion the blow you could sell those grips cause those grips are worth a ton. If blue is original, seems like a winner to me, but I really ain't an expert, just a guy willing to take a guess.

[tbury]

At that price I would pass. Those are post-magnas and it may be the light but the finish looks too black to be original to my eyes. I am sure that the real HD experts with make comments soon; but that is what I would do.

[beagleye]

Originally Posted by tbury

...Those are post-magnas...

Hmmm... I thought they were pre war magnas, the ones that sell on ebay for ridiculous sums, especially in that condition.

[lowhog]

They are pre-war magnas not postwar.I figure they must be in the 500.00 range in the shape there in.Here are some closups of the blueing.If it was reblued its the best job I have seen!dsc05778.jpg

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[tbury]

My miss on the magnas and light and oil sheen may be affecting the blue color to my monitor/eyes. I do not see the usual tell tales of buffing but the lack of finish wear on the ejector rod combined with the lack of case color on the trigger and hammer raise the question. I paid similar money for a 1931 vintage HD with a lot more wear and numbered service grips so it depends on what your reason for buying, having one or having a top quality "collector-grade" gun. I watched my gun sit for more than a year at a higher price and bit the bullet when I could get $200 of the price. In that time frame I did not see another pre-war HD locally.

[lowhog]

Originally Posted by tbury

My miss on the magnas and light and oil sheen may be affection the blue color to my monitor/eyes. I do not see the usual tell tales of buffing but the lack of finish wear on the ejector rod combined with the lack of case color on the trigger and hammer raise the question. I paid similar money for a 1931 vintage HD with a lot more wear and numbered service grips so it depends on what your reason for buying, having one or having a top quality "collector-grade" gun. I watched my gun sit for more than a year at a higher price and bit the bullet when I could get $200 of the price. In that time frame I did not see another pre-war HD locally.

Yes there is alot of oil smuge on the gun.Mike

[wordsmith]

The case-color restoration should not cost more than $150, if you can do the R&R part yourself. At $1,100 you should buy the gun and not waste any time doing so.... imo.

David

[bettis1]

I agree with David that if the gun is in original condition, that price isn't bad.

When evaluating an antique for its originality, one of the best tricks is to see if you can attribute a logical reason to any issue that seems out of character. In this case I am referring to the lack of case hardening on the hammer and the trigger. We often see situations where the color has faded on one or the other and often where the colors are lightly applied. But there is always some indication of color when they are closely examined. The complete absence of case colors raises a concern. Why would someone remove them? If they were polished off, that act would remove the very thin layer of hardening that is the reason for applying the case hardening in the first place. And, if the person was skilled enough to do it without any signs, he would also be skilled enough to do that to the complete gun.

The second question is why would someone replace the grips on a gun that is otherwise in perfect condition. It isn't as though this was a gun that was being put back together on an armorers bench and the grips simply got mixed up.

Bob

[lowhog]

Originally Posted by bettis1

I agree with David that if the gun is in original condition, that price isn't bad.

When evaluating an antique for its originality, one of the best tricks is to see if you can attribute a logical reason to any issue that seems out of character. In this case I am referring to the lack of case hardening on the hammer and the trigger. We often see situations where the color has faded on one or the other and often where the colors are lightly applied. But there is always some indication of color when they are closely examined. The complete absence of case colors raises a concern. Why would someone remove them? If they were polished off, that act would remove the very thin layer of hardening that is the reason for applying the case hardening in the first place. And, if the person was skilled enough to do it without any signs, he would also be skilled enough to do that to the complete gun.

The second question is why would someone replace the grips on a gun that is otherwise in perfect condition. It isn't as though this was a gun that was being put back together on an armorers bench and the grips simply got mixed up.

Bob

Bob,There still is a sign of light case hardening on the hd.There are no rework stamps on the gun.Just a b stamped on the frame under the grip panel.Its a 1935 vintage gun with 1940 grips.Did someone like the looks or feel of the magna's better than the service grips? maybe? Mike

[bettis1]

Mike,

If there is still some evidence of case hardening, that would go a long way in reassuring me that it was simply an instance that it had been lightly applied and has faded.

Bob

[keith44spl]

Mike,

I'd think you would be alright on it at that...


Su Amigo,
Dave

[lowhog]

Originally Posted by bettis1

Mike,

If there is still some evidence of case hardening, that would go a long way in reassuring me that it was simply an instance that it had been lightly applied and has faded.

Bob

Bob,If you look at the countersinks on the hammer You can still see the yellowish brown color.I still think the hammer and trigger have been polished by some ding dong.Looking at the sideplate screws closely it also appears the sideplate was of the gun.

[lowhog]

Originally Posted by keith44spl

Mike,

I'd think you would be alright on it at that...


Su Amigo,
Dave

Dave,Do you think original finish?I do! Mike

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by lowhog

Dave,Do you think original finish?I do! Mike

Mike,
From the pics, Other than finish on the ejector rod as to the turn ring of the cyl.
I didn't see anything of notice.

I do believe your right about the case colors being polished.

As for the magna stocks...Anyone that's ever fire them hi-speed 38-44 cartridges or
equivalent handloads, I'd guess probably didn't care for the service stocks much.

Dave

[Reddog]

Here is another, 46871, from 1935 for comparison.
Dick

[DCWilson]

Look at the bevel on the front of the ejector rod. If it is blued, the gun has probably been reblued or at least touched up. If it is in the white, the gun is likely not to have been refinished. Look also at the ratchet on the rear of the cylinder. All blue? Bad sign.

[beagleye]

Like you said, if it's a re blue it's a fantastic job! I'd buy it for that, assuming you don't tell my wife.

[Bill Bates]

The hammer and trigger do look polished which doesn't surprise me.

A few years ago a gentleman had a Colt Bisley I looked at. The gun was beautiful with 80-90% bluing, great grips and no case color. He proudly told me he spent three days scrubbing and polishing the frame to remove some sort of stain on the metal.

I was sick.

If it is a re-blue whoever did it is an artist.

[Peter M. Eick]

I would buy it as it. It looks like a nice shooter to me.

[olskool]

i like the gun, i would try to get it for less, around the 700.00 range. in my mind it has reblue wrote all over it.

[bigmoose]

On the question of a possible reblue...the front sight edges seem to lack crispness, like they were somewhat softened by polishing. Or maybe it's just the lighting and camera lens playing tricks.

[1Aspenhill]

From what I can tell from the pics, it looks original except for the grips. You find guns in the 47000 serial number range showing up wearing magnas. Even if it shipped with service grips, after selling he grips you would only have 7-800 in it.
Bill

[handejector]

I cannot see any sign of a refinish.

[Texas Star]

Look: the gun needs at least restoration of the color casehardened hammer and trigger. Call one of the very few famous (and expensive!) men who can do that and ask the cost and the turn-around time!

It is foolish to sell the grips, if they fit well. You'd have to shell out a bunch more for original service stocks, if that's what you think is needed. THe Magnas allow more comfortable use, if you ever fire it, and they were inspired by the recoil of this gun. That's part of its legend.

I wouldn't pay that price for a gun that has had the H&T scrubbed of the hardening. It may be reblued; no one can agree. I think David has the right idea about looking at the end of the extractor rod and the center of the cylinder assembly, but a shrewd faker might have avoided bluing those areas, although if he had, the extractor rod should show more wear.

I like the gun, but not with the need to refinish the H&T. That's just not acceptable, and suggests that other tampering was done.

If vou contact Turnbull or Chicoine, tell us what they want to restore the parts. And how long it'd take them to do that. You may be shocked.

[lowhog]

Originally Posted by DCWilson

Look at the bevel on the front of the ejector rod. If it is blued, the gun has probably been reblued or at least touched up. If it is in the white, the gun is likely not to have been refinished. Look also at the ratchet on the rear of the cylinder. All blue? Bad sign.

David ,the bevel is white.The face of the ratchet knobs are white.Mike

[lowhog]

Well I figure the grips are worth a 500.00 bill, so I'm looking at 600.00 for the rest. Also a very nice n frame El Paso Saddlery holster was added to the deal.The holster will be sold off.I will have the HD in my hands Monday.I like the way it looks with the magna's so they will stay with the revolver.I Thank all you members for your input and insight. Regards Mike

[1Aspenhill]

Mike,
What style holster is it?
Bill