First off, let me just state that I know no one can authoratively state anything for sure regarding my particular gun, without proper examination by a gunsmith, etc, etc. I am just looking for some general ideas though to point my in the right direction before doing that.

I have an early 40's K frame (pre-10, pre-victory), that was rebarreled into a snubbie in the late 40's/early 50's for a police department. Its a .38 Special cylinder, barrel and all, was never a British lend gun that was reamed out later on, etc. Shoots brilliantly, proverbial glass rod breaking trigger, good condition.

I am just curious if it would be okay to try shooting some of the modern +P rounds through it? I am planning on using it as a carry gun and would just like to be able to load something a bit hotter than regular .38 for defensive purposes. Someone I already asked suggested calling Smith and Wesson directly, but I figured I'd start here on the internet first...

If it was originally a 38 S&W cylinder, then I'd say no it is not safe for +P.

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Geoff. Since 1960.

If you had read his post you would have seen his gun is not a Victory or Lend-Lease revolver originally chambered for .38-200, but was originally .38 Special.

Litak45,

Per "Smith & Wesson Handguns" by McHenry and Roper it is mentioned that when the 2" M&P was introduced in 1938 S&W advertised that among acceptable cartridges for this variation was the .38-44 S&W Special, a cartridge which developed pressures in the 25,000 PSI+ range. There is no reason to suppose that any revolvers buillt from that time on would not be capable of shooting this cartridge. As a matter of fact, the specific comment was made that any M&P manufactured after the introduction of heat treating of cylinders in 1919 should be capable of using the .38-44.

The .38 Special +P is loaded to roughly 75% the pressure of the .38-44. Draw your own conclusions.

Since the barrel steels are softer and more susceptible to mechanical wear I would recommend staying away from jacketed bullets. Revolver barrels, or any for that matter, will last virtually forever is shot exclusively with lead bullets.

This post is a little more in-depth in it's citations: .38 Special +P in K-Frame revolvers

Factory +P is not loaded beyond allowable chamber pressure and would not be a problem in a 1940s K frame.

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No life story has happy end.

Actually, I did read his post, and originally it said that the cylinder was a 38 S&W cylinder. It has been edited/corrected since.

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Geoff. Since 1960.

Well if in sound mechanical shape plus P's will not blow it up, but I feel a steady diet of them may or may not accelerate wear. With that said, I personally do not use Plus P's in my older K-frames just because they dont make em anymore and why take the chance? I save them for my more modren gun's and sleep better.

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Stay safe people!

S&W will tell you that if the gun has a designated Model number stamped in the frame, it's OK to use +P ammo. I think previous posters are right, but draw your own conclusions.

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Eccentric old coot

There is +P rated at 125 gr/850 fps, and another at 158 gr/1200 fps. Neither will blow up a mechanically and metallurgically sound gun of this era, but hotter loads will accelerate wear. I would try a few +P loads (Speer Gold Dot, Hornady Critical Defense are two often recommended), see how they work for you and the sights. These will be fairly expensive and you wouldn't want to use them all the time.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Your ok to shoot 38 +P in your revolver. I have a M&P 38 special 4 inch made before S&W labeled their revolvers with a model number and I use 38 +P rounds. Any S&W 38 special made back to 1940 and older can handle the +P round. Most standard 38 special LRN back in those days was running in at close to 900 fps in a 6 inch barrel. Todays +P is running at 850 fps. Standard pressure is running at 750 or less now. Like previous threads on this forum, +P is a marketing tool for the ammo makers. Your revolver was rated at 21,500 psi. Todays +P round runs no higher than 18,500 psi. I use rounds that run in the 900 and higher in my M&P. I have no problems. I can shake out the fired rounds from my revolver. I have no forcing cone damage or any evidence that the revolver has excessive wear. The M&P is a strong revolver. It will take just about any factory 38 or 38+P round made today.
So have fun shooting your classic revolver.
Regards.
Howard

Would you supply the source/manufacturer of this 1200 fps +P 38 Special load? I've never heard of it and frankly question it's existence.

The old 38/44s, intended for use in the N-framed Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman produced only about 1150 fps from a 5" barrel but that load isn't around any more. Buffalo Bore is the only one that comes close and it's almost a perfect duplicate of the old 38/44. Still not 1200 fps.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Heavy .38 Special +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Note the quote for load 20A in a 4" barrel. I took poetic license in rounding 1162 to 1200 fps. In reviewing the original post, I see his M&P has a 2" barrel - my mistake.

My point is there appears to be quite a range (no pun intended) of what is considered +P loads, and some will probably cause a gun to shake loose more quickly than others with prolonged use.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

From a 1939 catalog

Nice as those numbers look, you have to remember that no one except the factories has chronographs then. There was no way for the average person to check actual velocities. Most of these velocity figures, unfortunately, bear little resemblance to reality. They cannot be used to make comparisons between what is currently available and ammunition performance "back in the day".

There is one, the .357 Magnum listing, which is realistic as it can be duplicated with the same powder used by the factories at that time, 2400, in an 8 3/8" revolver, and with cast bullets.

Geoff,

Since I didn't see the OP until after the edit, and he didn't indicate what the edit was, I will concede that to you. If that is what he said you were absolutely correct. I wouldn't go so far as to say shooting +P in a modified .38-200 would be dangerous, or hazardous to the gun, but it certainly would be inadvisable.

The issue of the whether to shoot +P 38 special ammo in a older S&W M&P is a myth. Most of it is the result of ammo makers downgrading there standard pressure 38 special ammo and relabeling what used to be standard pressure ammo to "+P". Before 1972 the standard pressure 38 special LRN round was running right a 850 fps. I was using this round in S&W M&Ps and early model 10s. If one is curious they can look on the internet and find several good articles by knowlegable sources confirming that the standard pressure 38 special round was running at 850 to 870 out of a 6 inch barrel. I never heard or scene a S&W K frame blowing up from using the standard pressure rounds in that time frame. Any revolver can wear out because of various reasons.
I have always maintain that a S&W 38 special steel revolver that is in good condition can shoot any round that is on the market right now.
Here is another article on the M&P 38 special hand ejector. It does reveal the first 38 special revolvers and the kind of ammo that was used.
Regards,
Howard
The First M&P - the Smith and Wesson Military and Police Hand Ejector Model of 1899