According to SCSW #3 the 2 inch round-butt, I Frame, 5 screw variation in a 2 inch barrel might be a bit rare.

The 2 inch barrel was supposedly introduced in 1949 and in 1953 the "improved I-Frame" (4 screw and coil mainspring) was introduced.

I know about a letter to S&W but...does anybody on this forum have any idea as to production numbers on the 2 inch version? Perhaps D.C. Wilson?

Thanks for any responses.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

Photos always help. There were a variety of changes, both these have coil springs.
Is it like this one, 1956:


Or this one(my Christmas present), 1953:


Production figures might be difficult to come by...

It is like #2, Pre-War features externally, including the hammer, 5 screws, correct diamond grips.

I love posting photos but do not have the revolver yet.

I do suspect production figures might be difficult, but we have very knowledgeable folks here who might have a clue.

Yours are right purty...........

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

I have a 2" rb that shipped in December '52. I also have a 3 1/4" that shipped in January '52. They both have the coiled main spring and both came with pre-war stocks. The 3 1/4" stocks are numbered to the gun, but the ones on the 2" are not. I think it may have shipped with magnas because of the flat head side plate screw. But I could be wrong...wouldn't be the first time.

Attached Images

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NRA Cert. Inst. RSO

I wish the factory numbers were available, but not known. One of my favorite S&W. I also have a 2", #58978X shipped 7/52,


and then there is the 3 1/4" #60009X, shipped Jan 53

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Thanks for the info and the pictures especially.

However...I just got an email from the seller and he already has a buyer.

I am bummed.

BUT...I took delivery today on a NIB Colt 3rd Generation (some call them 4th Generation) SAA with 5 1/2 inch barrel and .45 LONG Colt (had to say that!).

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

Nothing wrong with that!! Love those too. The gun collecting virus has many strains.

2nd gen from 1958 that started life as a 5 1/2" 38 Special that I picked up cheap and turned it into what Colt only made one of in the 1st gens, a 44 Colt. USFA barrel and black powder chamfered cylinder chambered for 44 Spl.I fit the vintage Ajax India Sambar Stags to it.




3rd gen Sheriff 44 Spl/44-40 convertible. Ivory grips unfitted from E-bite and fit them.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Hard to know production figures for the 2" but it's low. To put a ball park figure on it though just based on observations and IMHO, 7 to 15%.

SCSW 3rd is a fantastic source but not w/o showing it's age on occasion.

The '50s I frames is a case in point. More recent info from my database:

2. Improved I: coil main spring, but still short RB grip or rebated sq stocks, still 5 screw):
Otherwise same as previous transitional model above. Can have round front sight and early thumb latches; later models will have 2nd type flatlatch and serrated ramp front sight w/barrel rib and standardized barrel lengths of 2”, 3” & 4”. I have not observed the 1st type flat latch as used on the Baby J frames, used on I frames but doesn’t mean they don’t exist! The .32s begin to show up with the larger cylinder diameter and frame window of the .38 S&W. Very early ‘50s production may have plastic or steel stock medallions. (.32s beginning at #554536, lowest # known shipped 12/51, #611398 highest known).

3. Model of 1953 New I Frames: the “Pre-Model #s” 4 screws & 3 screws, larger trigger guard and longer grip frame. Bright blue finishes begin to appear and eventually predominate. (.32s beginning at about #613XXX)

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I believe you are correct!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Top gun Model of 1953 New I frame (Pre Model 30), 4 screw, early issue.
Bottom gun Improved I frame, 5 screw, early issue with round sight.
The variation between your two is the Improved I, 5 screw, late issue with ribbed barrel and ramp sight.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

How can it be a 5 screw if it has a coil spring?

Twice you have indicated 5 screw guns with coil springs???

Do you mean 4 screw sideplate??
That is what I call them.

When referencing a model by screw count, the trigger guard screw (the 5th screw because it was eliminated 1st on I and J frames) must be counted if present. And the Improved I frame does have a trigger guard screw.

All 5 screw I frames have 4 screw sideplates but so do all 4 screw I frames have 4 screw sideplates. So using the sideplate screw count on I and J frames just causes confusion. How would you know which model someone is really talking about?

For example: your bottom gun pictured, an Improved I frame, is a 5 screw model w/coil spring, and your top gun, a New Model of 1953 I frame, is a 4 screw model w/coil spring, BOTH have 4 screw sideplates (on both guns 1 screw is covered by the right stock) but obviously they are different models.

NOTE: the five screw count for I and J frames is often confused with the 5 screw count for K and N frames, but they are different. A 4 screw K or N frame only has 3 sideplate screws.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim, how dare you put images of not one but two ¢07+ SAs on this board?

Now say 5 "Hail Horaces" and 10 "Ave Daniels" in penance right now!!

I'm glad to see that you lived up to your normal strategy of building up neat variants that everyone would like to have but were either not built or are too rare for mere mortals to find (and shoot.) That stag handled 44 Spl has to be on a lot of bucket lists, even on this forum! Well done, my friend.

Froggie

When dealing with and distinguishing between the "real" I-frames, "improved" I-frames and 1953 Models, I like to refer to the "sixth screw" or strain screw on the bottom of the front of grip frame. If that screw is there, you know you are looking at the original I-frame with flat of "leaf" type mainspring. Just my 2¢!

Froggie

I'm obviously screwed up ;>)
Sorry...
Steve

I like Froggies method. You can't go wrong with that 6 screw count to distinguish the pre war/post war I frames from Improved I frames!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

No apology needed Steve! If you've read the SCSW or posts from someone who has taken it as gospel, you can't help but be confused/misinformed.

As excellent as the SCSW is, and it truly is an excellent resource, we must remember that identifying Smiths is like an ongoing investigation. Every day, actual observations of the actual guns expose new details. There is no factory documentation with all the details and answers we seek, anywhere. That's just one of many things that's so great about this forum!

My copy of the SCSW 3rd Ed., has almost as many handwritten updates in it as there is text! I wouldn't sell my copy at any price.

And the I and J frame sections have the most notes because those are the sections most lacking in new information. Distinguishing between the Improved I frame and New Mod of 1953 I frame is a case in point, those two variations are particularly muddled.

So no worries!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thx Froggie, and ah...I'm on my knees as I write this.

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Jim
S&WCA #819