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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 05-05-2013, 09:03 PM
96wa6 96wa6 is offline
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Gentlemen (and ladies):

First off, this is my first post with photos, and I am trying to imbed the images inside the post but seem to be failing. If I screw it up even more than that, I apologize in advance.

A customer is slowly relinquishing his bank account of S&Ws in preparation for retirement. Most are garden variety, but a few are unique. One or two are beyond my experience, like this one.

I've seen Regulation Polices, even a RP Target or two. But this .32 seems a very complete package. I need help to value it.

The gun itself is in VG to excellent condition, but shows honest wear. Some thinning of the blue on the sides of the muzzle (a result of "Cease fire! Guns on the bench! ..."), freckling on the left side of the frame and backstrap. Grips complete and undamaged.

The contents of the box are what amaze me. Included are a spiral-wire cleaning swab; a wood-handled brass cleaning rod with jag at the end; a "Caution" flyer; a S&W-marked "This is a standard U.S.R.A. 20 yard Bull's Eye" target with S&W trademarks notice on back; and a S&W logo-ed "DRY FIRE PRACTICE TARGET" with sight-adjustment instructions and diagrams on back.

I have never seen a S&W logo-ed dry fire target.

The box is dark brown and in good to very good condition. The hinge is still intact. Is this what was once and is still known as a "Red Box"?

The Regulation Police Targets I've seen have been priced astronomically. The most recent two I saw were well-used and still asking almost $2G at gun shows. Is that reasonable??

What does this learned group think is a reasonable price for this package?

Best and TIA,

96wa6
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AllLoRes.pdf (168.8 KB, 108 views)
File Type: pdf Backstrap.pdf (165.9 KB, 40 views)
File Type: pdf FrameLt.pdf (217.9 KB, 45 views)
File Type: pdf MuzzleLeft.pdf (172.1 KB, 27 views)
File Type: pdf Label.pdf (113.4 KB, 42 views)
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:37 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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Welcome to the forum. It certainly looks righteous to me and a wonderful package. The oxblood hinged box matches mine. I can tell you w/o s/n it's a c. 1930 produced gun. The wire mop is correct but I can't say for sure on the cleaning rod or paperwork, we just don't see that many near or complete packages. The sight adj tool is missing but even so it's a $2K plus package to me.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:50 PM
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DCWilson DCWilson is offline
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Nice package. Would I be correct that the serial number is a little under 505000?

I suggest that number because I think that gun probably shipped in 1929, and there is a known block of RP Targets that left the factory that year. I am assuming -- dangerous, I know -- that the stocks are original and number to the frame. Their design indicates a date in the 1920s, as beginning in 1930 the company's checkered stocks began to carry silver medallions in the rounded tops of each cheek piece. Yet the gun has to be from late in the decade, because the shape of the ejector rod knob is typically what we see on guns of the 1930s. There was only a brief manufacturing period in the late 1920s when these two features would be seen together on a S&W revolver.

Last year I acquired 504907, which is identically configured to the one you show. A quick pic:



Is the box numbered to the gun? I ask rather than presume because I would have expected the label to mention that the included revolver was a target model. But the company did not always have proper labels for the guns it shipped and would press the nearest relevant box into service. If your box numbers to your gun, it might have the annotation "Target" written in pencil on the bottom.

The swab looks to me to be original, but I have not seen a cleaning rod like that as original equipment. I think that was an independent purchase by the gun's original owner and that he just kept it in the box with the gun. I have seen dry fire targets included with target revolvers, but they are from the immediate postwar Masterpiece series and were on the flip side of a card that showed how to adjust the new micro-click rear sights. I think that is what you are describing, so the target you have is an anachronism for that particular revolver. I don't even know if dry fire targets were included with prewar target revolvers. They may well have been, and I simply haven't run across one. I believe the "caution" note could be prewar.

For all their unquestioned scarcity (I doubt more than a thousand were manufactured between 1917 and 1940, and perhaps as few as 800), RP Targets are not outrageously expensive. The best guns (high 90s condition) could go for more than $2000, but the ones I have seen change hands in the 80-95% zone usually sell in the $1250-1750 range. With the box and related gear I think your gun could sell for close to $2000, maybe even a little more if a couple of deep-pockets bidders got into an argument about which of them should get to call himself the next owner. If it appeared in a nationwide auction -- Gunbroker, say -- I would be interested but would probably drop out of the bidding if the price went past $1800. Because of the observable wear, I think the gun itself would be fairly priced at about $1400. It's the box (which if not original to the gun is still mostly correct) and the extras that make the package.

I have been tracking serial numbers on prewar RP Targets for about three years, and I have identified only 32 of them. If you would be willing to PM me the serial number of your gun for a data base I am keeping, I would very much appreciate it. I am a big fan of the prewar adjustable-sight I-frame revolvers in both .32 Long and .22 LR calibers. (As is Hondo44, whose post precedes mine.)

That box is actually called a Display Box or Patent Box by collectors. The company patented the flip-top design that let the top of the box stand up behind the bottom half with the gun in it. The red box is actually a two piece postwar box that is unmistakably red, not maroon or oxblood.

If you are looking at acquiring this one from the current owner I hope you can come to terms with him. It's not a completely original package, but it has some good stuff in it.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:18 AM
96wa6 96wa6 is offline
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Gentlemen:

Wow. You are amazing.

The box label has no notation that the contents are a Target model and there is no serial number. The photo I attached is of the only label on the box (and there are no notations on the inside top.)

I will have to remove the grips and see if they're numbered.

The package was acquired from the original owner, who shot it in matches. He said it included everything he got with it, so the present owner tends to think the Dry Fire target came with it (I'll have to ask when he got it). I will also ask if he knew when the original owner stopped shooting matches with it.

When you mentioned the cleaning rod does not look familiar, I looked at it more closely. Bingo. It is a .22 cleaning rod. So it is an added piece.

A further note; the pictures of the flaws are far more dramatic than the flaws are to the naked eye. I just took the gun out to check the serial # and thought I had the wrong gun; I remember now that I had to light the backstrap specially and photo it at just the right angle for the speckling to show as clearly as in the photo. So does the left side of the frame.

The serial number is 501XXX. DCWILSON: I will PM you the complete number in the near future - very late now and I'm starting to lose focus. (Darn bourbon...)

Thank you all, and I will post more info as it comes to me ...

96wa6
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