Need help with manufacturing date

longjg66 · #1 06-22-2013, 11:33 PM

I got from my father in-law a 5 shot, .38 caliber regulation police 4" barrel revolver. The serial number is 1786. It has no company stamps on the gun, nor does it say "made in the USA" either. It does however, have the company logo on the hand grips. Can anyone help me figure the date it was manufactured and about how much it might be worth? I'm not going to sell it, just curious.
Also, my friend just bought a 6 shot, .38 caliber special ctg, 6" barrel revolver. The serial number on his is 602685. Any info on his gun would be greatly appreciated as well.

glowe · #2 06-23-2013, 09:39 AM

Welcome to the Forum. I assume your 38 has extended walnut stocks? If so, your Regulation Police would have been shipped from the factory around 1917, during the first year of production of this model. As far as value goes, it is impossible to determine without photos and more information. It could be worth $150 or it might be worth $700.

The 38 Special is a .38 M&P Hand Ejector (1905), 4th Change shipped from the factory around 1929. By the end of WWII, there were a million of this model manufactured.

DWalt · #3 06-23-2013, 01:30 PM

"The 38 Special is a .38 M&P Hand Ejector (1905), 4th Change shipped from the factory around 1929. By the end of WWII, there were a million of this model manufactured."

Actually, much closer to 2 Million.

GerSan69 · #4 06-23-2013, 04:45 PM

Not an expert by any means, but I haven't heard of a genuine Smith & Wesson without markings. A copy, perhaps?

glowe · #5 06-23-2013, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GerSan69

Not an expert by any means, but I haven't heard of a genuine Smith & Wesson without markings. A copy, perhaps?

I have seen these revolvers so worn or buffed that all markings are gone. Pictures would be helpful.

glowe · #6 06-23-2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWalt

"The 38 Special is a .38 M&P Hand Ejector (1905), 4th Change shipped from the factory around 1929. By the end of WWII, there were a million of this model manufactured."

Actually, much closer to 2 Million.

Yeah, I guess the Victory Model is actually an M&P, but I usually don't count them or the British 38/200s when referring to the Model 1905s. Jinks uses the Model 1905 designation only through the Fourth Change, but all are K frames, so I guess it depends on how a person lumps them together?

Hondo44 · #7 06-23-2013, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longjg66

I got from my father in-law a 5 shot, .38 caliber regulation police 4" barrel revolver. The serial number is 1786. It has no company stamps on the gun, nor does it say "made in the USA" either. It does however, have the company logo on the hand grips. Can anyone help me figure the date it was manufactured and about how much it might be worth?

Welcome to this forum! You have a very early RP.
I assume on the Reg. Police you took the serial # from the forestrap behind the trigger guard.

The .38 RP model production began at serial #1 Mar 5th, 1917. But very few were shipped until 1919.

Early RP's will:
> not have a S&W logo stamp on them.
> have gold medallion grips without the patent date on the bottom of the stocks.
> not have heat treated cylinders until after 1920.
> not have a forcing cone, but do have the fouling cup under the top strap. The engineering order of August 22, 1922 mandates the forcing cone for HE's.
> not have "Made In USA" until after mid 1922.

longjg66 · #8 06-23-2013, 09:38 PM

Thanks for all the info on the guns. I'll post pics of both guns later tonight or tomorrow.

longjg66 · #9 06-23-2013, 10:25 PM

Here are pics of my friends gun. He was wondering why part of the serial number was drilled out also. Just seems a little weird.

Hondo44 · #10 06-23-2013, 10:37 PM

The serial # has purposely been defaced, a felony unless the entire number is reproduced under the grips. The grips are pre 1920 and incorrect for that vintage gun.

longjg66 · #11 06-23-2013, 11:20 PM

Here are the pictures of my gun, the regulation police gun.

Hondo44 · #12 06-23-2013, 11:38 PM

That's a fine little shooter. It will look 100% better with all the rust/black spots cleaned off and the nickel polished back to life. I have suggestions on how I do that if interested.

longjg66 · #13 06-24-2013, 09:55 PM

I am very interested in how to fix up my little shooter. I appreciate it.

longjg66 · #14 06-24-2013, 09:58 PM

Jim, on my friends gun, the serial number was not underneath the grips, but the serial number is on the bottom side of the barrel and on the cylinder. Only the serial number on the bottom of the grips has holes drilled. All the numbers match, of course the drilled holes covered up three of the numbers. The other three match though. Is it legit still or is it a felon to own the gun?

Hondo44 · #15 06-24-2013, 10:39 PM

The 1st step is to wire brush as much rust off the worst areas like the back strap of the grip frame and under the grips.

Then use Mothers Mag Wheel polish, Semi Chrome or Flitz to rigoursly polish the entire gun. This will remove all of the fine scratches, scuffs and tarnish on the surface of the nickel, and polish the brown areas where the nickel has worn thru, down to white metal which will match the nickel much better. Use a small fine bristled steel brush with WD-40 (the top rated non-etching off the shelf product for dissolving rust) on any stubborn black pitted spots until white metal is reached. Scrub the bore with bore cleaner.

Lastly, polish those areas that had to be scrubbed with WD-40 to get the black out. For heavily rusted areas that remain dark after brushing and scrubbing with WD-40, you can use a little drastic measure.

Since the nickel finish is fairly well worn anyway you can't really hurt it much. So use Naval Jelly rust remover (it will etch the metal if left on longer than needed) and carefully apply to the stubborn black spots with a toothpick but try to avoid getting on the nickel. Follow directions. Let set and check often until black is removed and white metal is exposed. Re-polish. Let us know how it comes out.

longjg66 · #16 06-24-2013, 11:22 PM

I'll give it a shot. When I get done I'll post some pics on here. I appreciate all the help everyone has given. Thanks.

Hondo44 · #17 06-25-2013, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longjg66

Jim, on my friends gun, the serial number was not underneath the grips, but the serial number is on the bottom side of the barrel and on the cylinder. Only the serial number on the bottom of the grips has holes drilled. All the numbers match, of course the drilled holes covered up three of the numbers. The other three match though. Is it legit still or is it a felon to own the gun?

It must have the serial # on the frame, so the barrel, cyl, etc., locations don't count from a legal standpoint.

glowe · #18 06-25-2013, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longjg66

I'll give it a shot. When I get done I'll post some pics on here. I appreciate all the help everyone has given. Thanks.

I have used Naval Jelly on some shooters and get good results. The Naval Jelly will dissolve the rust and does not seem to affect the nickel at all. Now if there is rust under the edges of the areas that are rusted, it will flake a little more nickel, but you would probably lose those sections over time anyway. Polish the steel as Jim states by hand and take your time. The results will be a big improvement. I use Mequiar's Scratch X2.0 to polish. You can then wax or oil the surface to protect the finish.

Here are a few before and after photos of the 32 HEs.