|
|
|
12-28-2014, 10:34 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 18,910
Likes: 11,998
Liked 20,644 Times in 8,607 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdan314
After getting some help from the forum members on trying to identify whether my .45 acp/auto rim Model 1950 Target with factory swivel (S85XXX) was an early 'military' 1950 Target or a factory ordered Pre-model 26, I read your 2013 article...learned a lot. Was wondering if you might be able to add some info on the question.
Thanks
|
You can determine if your swivel is original to the frame or added by Smith in response to a special order BEFORE shipping the revolver new.
Factory swivels original to the frame and factory swivel installations are always 1/10” forward of center. The serial number on the butt will be stamped off center if original to the frame. Also a swivel may be drilled thru the factory serial # for installation of a lanyard ring either before initial shipping or if sent back to the factory for a swivel. But in those two cases the s/n is re-stamped on the left side of grip frame, under the left stock.
If a small order came in for a gun or a few guns with swivels, and those guns were already built w/o swivels, they did NOT build guns to fill the order. They drilled existing guns in inventory in this manner.
Also-
A factory swivel will NOT always letter. IF S&W threw it in on the deal for free, it is NOT on the invoice, so there is currently no way to document it unless SWHF research turns up correspondence about the order.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-28-2014, 07:23 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Desert South West
Posts: 5,356
Likes: 7,356
Liked 8,689 Times in 2,312 Posts
|
|
David,
Thanks for the lesson. it was very informative and new to me. This is what I love about this forum.
__________________
John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor
|
12-28-2014, 09:24 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Occupied California
Posts: 2,729
Likes: 1,542
Liked 5,626 Times in 1,627 Posts
|
|
I have a fairly early, 4 digit LERK K-22 Masterpiece shipped in August 1947 with a lanyard ring that didn't letter as such. The ring seems to be mounted the same as the Victory Models were (although I have never measured the exact placement of the hole in the bottom of the frame and the cross pin hole) and since it was only a 4 digit serial number the hole for the loop didn't interfere with any of the numbers so they were not re-stamped.
|
12-28-2014, 09:44 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 18,910
Likes: 11,998
Liked 20,644 Times in 8,607 Posts
|
|
Walter,
Notice my example above is only a 4 digit number also but was drilled thru. If it's the proper 1/10" forward of center, that tells me your frame was made and drilled for the swivel initially, the serial number having been stamped off center to miss the swivel hole. That's why it didn't letter: it was not special ordered or added as an extra, therefore not listed on the invoice.
So by virtue of it not being drilled thru the number, and not "lettering", you know it can only be a factory original!
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Last edited by Hondo44; 12-28-2014 at 09:48 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-29-2014, 11:07 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 66
Likes: 18
Liked 9 Times in 4 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc44
1950 Target 45 with a 5-inch barrel and target stocks. One of eight shipped to H. H. Harris in Chicago in 1960 and one of nine known.
Bill
|
Bill,
All I can say that is a beautiful gun.
John
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-29-2014, 11:19 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,926
Likes: 14,444
Liked 3,764 Times in 1,784 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by wundudnee
A few years back I was looking for a model of 1955 and had to settle for this model of 1950 ,45 cal. It has turned into my favorite S&W. I need to get serious and get it lettered. It appears to me that it is bright blue and I don't believe it has been redone.
I have got some flack about my flowery picture, but I think beauty compliments beauty.
|
Just FYI: I have several of these pre-26s and one is clearly bright blue. I've been told that was a special order option.
__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821
|
12-29-2014, 11:33 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 66
Likes: 18
Liked 9 Times in 4 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45Wheelgun
I am less concerned about the flowers and more concerned about the "Bordello Red" velvet sheets.
|
Well it is Christmas time and red is a Christmas color. Here is my Model 25 in a .45 LC with an 8 3/8" barrel. Boy is this sucker fun to shoot (like any S&W isn't).
|
10-09-2016, 05:44 AM
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego, PRK
Posts: 9,233
Likes: 11,531
Liked 11,249 Times in 3,916 Posts
|
|
What a great writeup! How have I missed it all these years? Thanks for sharing and thanks to all the members who make me jealous of your beautiful pre-26s.
My pre-26 was my second S&W Revolver. I love the thing. It comes out of the safe from time to time. Not collector grade but I like it.
|
The Following 9 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-09-2016, 07:20 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ashtabula County, Ohio
Posts: 6,041
Likes: 9,498
Liked 13,993 Times in 4,102 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishslayer
...What a great writeup! How have I missed it all these years?...
|
Don't feel too bad, I missed it too. Thank you for reviving this thread.
Kevin
__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.
|
10-09-2016, 12:41 PM
|
SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SLC, Utah
Posts: 4,862
Likes: 739
Liked 3,277 Times in 1,282 Posts
|
|
My 1950 .45 Target has the soft blue and shipped with diamond Magna stocks in the maroon box. S100373, shipped in September 1954.
My 1950 .45 Military has the bright blue finish, S94954. Shipped April, 1952.
I always felt very fortunate to have managed to obtain and hand on to both of them.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-09-2016, 09:59 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 18,910
Likes: 11,998
Liked 20,644 Times in 8,607 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUFF
My 1950 .45 Target has the soft blue and shipped with diamond Magna stocks in the maroon box. S100373, shipped in September 1954.
My 1950 .45 Military has the bright blue finish, S94954. Shipped April, 1952.
I always felt very fortunate to have managed to obtain and hand on to both of them.
|
In 1952 the Bright blue was an approximate 25% premium if special ordered. So your 1950 Military should have a large B following the serial # on the barrel which confirms the Bright blue option was specifically ordered on your gun.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-09-2016, 10:50 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: 'Beachy' SoCal
Posts: 522
Likes: 12
Liked 761 Times in 280 Posts
|
|
Some beautiful and rare guns here & thanks for posting all! I have but one Pre Mod 26, SN 793xx, with the satin blue finish. I'm into the 44 Special Smiths and really not paying a lot of attention to the .45 offerings. But over a lot of years collecting, to affirm personally seening very few Model 26/'pre' Smiths. A pix of mine below. I'd say about 98-99%, w/o box. Also have a single Mod 25 with the "Model of 1950" nomenclature.
Nice handguns... Just not 44 Spl!
My take
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-10-2016, 01:24 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New Iberia, Louisiana
Posts: 4,587
Likes: 25,427
Liked 3,380 Times in 1,736 Posts
|
|
Regarding the shallow rifling in the 1950 Target. Maybe BS but have heard that some shooters cut and chopped the barrel of a thompson machine gun because the rifling was deeper. Just remember reading about it and have no source or documentation. Frank
|
10-10-2016, 08:42 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Fincastle, VA
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 2,883
Liked 6,283 Times in 910 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWilson
Interesting. The lowest serial number I know on a Pre-26 is S78950 . . .
|
David,
I happened on a pre-26 back in August. Mine is # S78502, and Roy says it shipped in April 1951. You may have seen it go through the SWCA "Ship Date Request Forum" just before Labor Day.
So that's a new data point concerning these fine revolvers.
Mine is a standard M1950 Target: satin blue, standard hammer and trigger, magnas, 6-1/2" barrel. All numbers, including the magnas match. It has seen very little use. I have neither photographed it nor shot it, but I will. Sorry, no pic today.
It's been a couple of years since your statement quoted above. As you certainly know, the third edition of Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson brackets the serial number range S76212 - S211000.
I'm curious whether you or anyone else have encountered anything lower than my S78502 since your quoted post.
Curl
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-10-2016, 09:38 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 12,994
Likes: 5,027
Liked 7,722 Times in 2,633 Posts
|
|
Curl, I haven't been paying close attention, but I have not yet seen or heard of a Pre-26 with a number lower than yours. They undoubtedly exist, but I suspect there may not be many of them to find. I invite anyone with an S76xxx or S77xxx Pre-26 to mention its existence. Don't be shy about posting pics.
__________________
David Wilson
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-10-2016, 02:16 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 11
Likes: 1
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
|
|
I was out shooting number S77409 yesterday. I will try and post pictures tomorrow. It is strange because the SN on the barrel matches the gun and is marked smith & wesson on the left side of the barrel but has no markings on the right side of the barrel. I guess it may have been polished off at some point but I wonder if any were shipped without markings on the right side of barrel? It is a 45acp.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-10-2016, 03:06 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 1,229
Likes: 4
Liked 3,823 Times in 460 Posts
|
|
David--
Mine is S 77421.
Tim
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-10-2016, 03:32 PM
|
|
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 3,082
Likes: 12,877
Liked 7,548 Times in 2,081 Posts
|
|
Thank You
I truly great post worthy of many likes.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-10-2016, 03:51 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 11
Likes: 1
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
|
|
Wow pretty close to mine. Is your barrel marked on the right side?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAgnes
David--
Mine is S 77421.
Tim
|
|
10-10-2016, 05:09 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,853
Likes: 252
Liked 29,497 Times in 14,229 Posts
|
|
I shot Bullseye between the late 1960s and the late 1970s. I don't remember ever seeing anyone shoot the .45 stage with a revolver, and I went to lots of matches.
|
10-11-2016, 10:16 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 1,229
Likes: 4
Liked 3,823 Times in 460 Posts
|
|
Johnny Mac--
Yes, mine is fully marked.
Tim
|
10-11-2016, 05:29 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 11
Likes: 1
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
|
|
Here's a picture of mine, as you can see it's seen better days but it is a great shooter.
Here's the right side of the barrel. Not sure what happened there?
|
07-16-2023, 05:57 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ashtabula County, Ohio
Posts: 6,041
Likes: 9,498
Liked 13,993 Times in 4,102 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWilson
Only recently did it dawn on me how unusual the design of the Model of 1950 .45 target was in the context of what had preceded it. While Smith & Wesson had been making .45 caliber revolvers in significant numbers since the mid-'teens, with rare exceptions these were fixed-sight guns built for military service. The .455 Hand Ejector, built mostly for Commonwealth countries but sold in small numbers in the United States, along with the Model of 1917 that chambered .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim, were the most-produced N-frame models before WWII. About 75,000 .455s were produced and nearly 200,000 1917s. All other N-frames produced commercially before WWII totaled barely 60,000 guns.
What is significant about the Model of 1950 is that it introduced to the regular catalog a .45 caliber model with adjustable sights. It was S&W's first production .45 revolver designed for serious precision shooters. It is probably no accident that the model was introduced on the new 1950 short-action design, which featured a reduced lock time that could only have been an attraction to the professional target shooters of the day.
Within five years, experience had shown that the Model of 1950 might benefit in competition from the presence of a heavier untapered barrel. S&W then introduced the Model of 1955, which was simply a 1950 with more steel wrapped around the rifling. Both guns continued in simultaneous production for a while, but the 1955 (which in 1957 became known as Model 25) showed greater commercial potential than the Model of 1950 (which after 1957 was called the Model 26 and continued in production only until 1961). In the decades since, the descendants of the Model 25 have become highly regarded specimens within the company's large-bore revolver line-up.
The Model of 1950 .45 Target can be considered a modified 1917, produced in a configuration that added one inch to the 1917 barrel length, topped it with a barrel rib, and installed adjustable sights on a frame that housed the new short-throw hammer design. The gun also has the standard N-frame ejector rod shroud in place of the exposed ejector rod on the 1917.
Fewer than 2800 Pre-26 and Model 26 revolvers were assembled in the course of the 11 years they were in production. Almost all are non-model-marked. Five screw specimens predominate; four screw or model marked specimens are hard to find.
This is S96906, a five-screw Pre-26 that shipped in July 1953. Condition is about 98% on a standard (not high polish) finish. Target hammer, narrow trigger. The box numbers to the gun. On the gun, all numbers match. I haven't shot it yet, but plan to. Maybe a lot.
…
The Model 1950 should not be considered a truly rare gun, but you won't see one too often. For comparison, the total number of Pre-26 and Model 26 revolvers is about 800 fewer than the number of K-32 Masterpieces, a common benchmark for scarcity among postwar models. If you come across a Pre-26 and can afford it, you should consider buying it.
|
Dave,
I felt this thread should be revived for those who had not seen it. Lots of fun and interesting opinions here.
Of course having a Model 1950 helps me find this more interesting.
Kevin
__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.
|
The Following 9 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-16-2023, 06:22 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Kommiefornia
Posts: 848
Likes: 2,216
Liked 2,542 Times in 518 Posts
|
|
A Timeless Thread - Model of 1950
A good ol thread, & you have a beauty!
|
07-16-2023, 09:47 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 489
Likes: 488
Liked 647 Times in 290 Posts
|
|
Scarce S&W models
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWilson
Only recently did it dawn on me how unusual the design of the Model of 1950 .45 target was in the context of what had preceded it. While Smith & Wesson had been making .45 caliber revolvers in significant numbers since the mid-'teens, with rare exceptions these were fixed-sight guns built for military service. The .455 Hand Ejector, built mostly for Commonwealth countries but sold in small numbers in the United States, along with the Model of 1917 that chambered .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim, were the most-produced N-frame models before WWII. About 75,000 .455s were produced and nearly 200,000 1917s. All other N-frames produced commercially before WWII totaled barely 60,000 guns.
What is significant about the Model of 1950 is that it introduced to the regular catalog a .45 caliber model with adjustable sights. It was S&W's first production .45 revolver designed for serious precision shooters. It is probably no accident that the model was introduced on the new 1950 short-action design, which featured a reduced lock time that could only have been an attraction to the professional target shooters of the day.
Within five years, experience had shown that the Model of 1950 might benefit in competition from the presence of a heavier untapered barrel. S&W then introduced the Model of 1955, which was simply a 1950 with more steel wrapped around the rifling. Both guns continued in simultaneous production for a while, but the 1955 (which in 1957 became known as Model 25) showed greater commercial potential than the Model of 1950 (which after 1957 was called the Model 26 and continued in production only until 1961). In the decades since, the descendants of the Model 25 have become highly regarded specimens within the company's large-bore revolver line-up.
The Model of 1950 .45 Target can be considered a modified 1917, produced in a configuration that added one inch to the 1917 barrel length, topped it with a barrel rib, and installed adjustable sights on a frame that housed the new short-throw hammer design. The gun also has the standard N-frame ejector rod shroud in place of the exposed ejector rod on the 1917.
Fewer than 2800 Pre-26 and Model 26 revolvers were assembled in the course of the 11 years they were in production. Almost all are non-model-marked. Five screw specimens predominate; four screw or model marked specimens are hard to find.
This is S96906, a five-screw Pre-26 that shipped in July 1953. Condition is about 98% on a standard (not high polish) finish. Target hammer, narrow trigger. The box numbers to the gun. On the gun, all numbers match. I haven't shot it yet, but plan to. Maybe a lot.
The Model 1950 should not be considered a truly rare gun, but you won't see one too often. For comparison, the total number of Pre-26 and Model 26 revolvers is about 800 fewer than the number of K-32 Masterpieces, a common benchmark for scarcity among postwar models. If you come across a Pre-26 and can afford it, you should consider buying it.
|
When I became interested in handgun shooting in the late 60s I thought of the S&Ws and Colts the 50s and 60s as something to be bought for a purpose and did not think of future collectibility.
When I saw an S&W catalog that showed a K-32 or Model 46 I just imagined that these were in demand guns that sold in much higher numbers than they actually did. I thought the same of the model 26, HD and Outdoorsman, updated 1917s and .44 Specials the same way. It was not until I really began collecting and bought my first copy of SCSW about 15 years ago that I finally realized how scarce some of these guns are.
Congratulations on finding a good 1950 Target. I always have an eye out for decent older S&Ws. In 2006 I found a very nice first year production 38-44 HD with a 5” barrel. I paid under $400 from an LGS. Even at a total production number of around 20,000 pieces this is not a gun you see everyday so I feel fortunate to have found a good one at a reasonable price.
|
07-16-2023, 10:23 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 2,459
Liked 2,032 Times in 797 Posts
|
|
A nice 5-screw one sold on Gunbroker recently, for $1,499. s/n S123004.
Just a moment...
With some nice target grips, too...
|
07-17-2023, 12:49 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,429
Likes: 1,112
Liked 5,174 Times in 1,584 Posts
|
|
I'm a huge fan of 45acp revolvers. The models of 1950 and 1955 are two terrific guns. Here is a photo (which I've posted previously) of the two showing the significant difference in their barrel profiles. The results are very different shooting characteristics. The pre-26 is my favorite shooter.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-17-2023, 06:33 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ashtabula County, Ohio
Posts: 6,041
Likes: 9,498
Liked 13,993 Times in 4,102 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodacan
I'm a huge fan of 45acp revolvers. The models of 1950 and 1955 are two terrific guns. Here is a photo (which I've posted previously) of the two showing the significant difference in their barrel profiles. The results are very different shooting characteristics. The pre-26 is my favorite shooter.
|
I like how that image captures the difference in the barrel profile.
I agree, the tapered barrel is the preferred type for me.
Kevin
__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-17-2023, 07:47 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 733
Likes: 4,688
Liked 1,865 Times in 425 Posts
|
|
Thanks for refreshing thread
For informative. And I now appreciate the tapered barrels. The handle very well.
Last edited by mchom; 07-17-2023 at 07:49 AM.
Reason: Add text
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-25-2023, 06:18 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ashtabula County, Ohio
Posts: 6,041
Likes: 9,498
Liked 13,993 Times in 4,102 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodacan
I'm a huge fan of 45acp revolvers. The models of 1950 and 1955 are two terrific guns. Here is a photo (which I've posted previously) of the two showing the significant difference in their barrel profiles. The results are very different shooting characteristics. The pre-26 is my favorite shooter.
|
I looked again at this image and noted the frames are also finished differently alongside the rear sights. I looked at my Model 1950 and my Model 25-2s. The Model 1950 is polished in that area. The Model 25-2 has a pronounced matte finish along the rear sight, actually from the rear of the frame to the muzzle.
Kevin
__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.
|
04-28-2024, 06:56 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ashtabula County, Ohio
Posts: 6,041
Likes: 9,498
Liked 13,993 Times in 4,102 Posts
|
|
Sometimes lightning strikes twice. I recently came into another 45 ACP Model 1950. This one from July, 1955 making it a birth year revolver for me.
Curt Harlow was kind enough to make these Magnas for me. I like the look.
Kevin
__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-28-2024, 08:31 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Conroe Texas...
Posts: 3,889
Likes: 0
Liked 9,939 Times in 2,818 Posts
|
|
I'm glad you finally nabbed a birthyear gun, Kevin, and a beauty it is...I have three guns in my safe born the same year (before the earth cooled) as myself, but so far none the same month...And before anybody says it, yes the Julian calendar was in use at that time... ...Ben
__________________
Cogito, ergo BOOM!...
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-28-2024, 09:46 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 22,489
Likes: 18,769
Liked 22,570 Times in 8,318 Posts
|
|
I can't believe I've missed this one all these years (or had forgotten I had seen it). As I have been gradually selling off my collection over the past sew years, I can't think of parting with my 25-2. It gets to the range with me several times a year. with my cast bullet hand loads, its a tack driver.
Moon clips are no problem. Just get a proper tool and the job is easy.
__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|