Seeking The Ole Gunfighter...

[Higganum]

A couple of years ago, there were some photos of a 38 Special M&P altered to what I would call a "1940's gunfighter style". Barrel shortened to just in front of the lug. Rifle ramp front sight with a IIRC gold bead sight. Square butt rounded with service-type (non-magna) grips and maybe a bronze T-grip adapter. I was quite taken by it and now have a re-blued M&P to possibly re-create the old-timer. Can anyone point me to the right thread, contributor, whatever info?
Thanks
Higganum

[-db-]

Might be in this thread full of belly guns: Belly Guns

[DWFAN]

I have lusted after this gun for years.
DW

[DWFAN]

This was the closest thing I could come up with for my own personal carry.
DW

[Higganum]

DWFAN,
That's the one!
Thanks.

[Higganum]

DW,
Moved to TN from CT in August. I found my reblued M&P at the 20% off sale at the late Riverview Arms. You have a handsome piece there. Are those rosewood targs?
Regards,
Higganum

[Jaymo]

Originally Posted by DWFAN

I have lusted after this gun for years.
DW

Sweet. Must buy finish-worn pre-10 and have it prepared thusly.

I think that would be a pretty sweet setup for a 31-1.

[DWFAN]

Originally Posted by Higganum

DW,
Moved to TN from CT in August. I found my reblued M&P at the 20% off sale at the late Riverview Arms. You have a handsome piece there. Are those rosewood targs?
Regards,
Higganum

From Higganum no doubt.
Picked the gun up from a dealer that had his nose up in the air. Wasn't fit enough for him, had to buy it in a group. If memory serves I paid $230 for it and it's the sweetest shooting 4th change I own. Tight as a drum and slick as a whistle. The stocks are modified to fit me and cut down for concealed carry. They've been stained for that look. The gun packs well and is very accurate.
DW

[Jaymo]

I thought about doing this with my "finish challenged" 10-6 4", but the lettering would need to be removed, and the rib would need to be tapered at the muzzle, for it to look right to me.

Maybe I should try to find a K snub barrel and have it installed.
Wouldn't hurt the value or my feelings.

Too bad I can't get my old DW (HS Sentinel3) converted into a 5 shot .44 Spl or .45 ACP.
THAT would be a sweet SD carry piece.

Also tempted to put a 4" 10-5 barrel on my 10-6. I've always liked the look of the tapered barrel K frame.
Mine has no collector value anyway.

[Higganum]

Grew up in Cromwell which had lots of woods then. I could walk all day and not see a soul. All houses now. Moved to Higganum in '77. Owned our own woods there.
Anyway, a guy who did a couple of articles in Backwoodsman magazine had what looked to be a round butt 64 or 65 with a 4" stainless pencil barrel from an early 64. You would have to shorten the barrel shank and recut the forcing cone if it is a 65, but you can do that yourself. It looked like a nice and handy sixgun.
Regards,
Higganum

[Higganum]

Jaymo,
How about a shortened 4" M-15 barrel with the narrow rib? Slot it for a pinned in blade front.
Regards,
Higganum

[Jaymo]

Admit it, that bird's head grip frame looks good on a K frame.

Higganum, yeah, a shortened 15 barrel would look good, too.
I'd probably have to put a shorter front sight on it to keep it from shooting low, or would I?
I found a couple of K snub barrels on the 'bay.
My buddy said I should put a 6" pencil barrel on it. Not a bad idea, either.

I'm leaning toward a 2 or 3" barrel and have the whole thing black parkerized (bonderized?). I'm not a huge fan of gray park on a revolver.
Except maybe a Victory Smith or a Colt Commando Special D frame.

[Higganum]

On the front sight height, I leave the blade plenty high and file to suit for elevation. One could make a sacrificial plastic blade for sighting-in purposes to get the height right and then make a proper blade, gold bead, whatever.
The birds head really makes this thing. I'd like to see the gun in a direct side view to see how birdy it is. Looks like more than the factory round butt. I put on some factory RB panels today. To make them work you need to cut the backstrap from the bottom plate and remove a piece from the bottom. Bend the backstrap to touch and weld it. I've done this on two 1917's long ago. Gotta be careful not to violate the s.n.
I have some old SB service style stags not being used and am considering using them and doing a "semi-round butt" without the cutting and welding. If I go "full-bird" I'll lose a lot of the stag bark.
Finish-wise, I think we have to go blue if we want to re-create the old-school look. Depends what you're looking for.
I'm going old-school since I already have a 3" 65.
Keep us apprised of your progress.
Regards,
Higganum

[SG-688]

Originally Posted by DWFAN

I have lusted after this gun for years.
DW

To give credit: these two belong to Tipoc.

I don't think I've seen any other forum photo re-posted as often as this one. We all lust for it. FWIW - I call dibs.

[80sgyrene]

I did something similar to an old M&P. Round butted it, chopped the barrel and salvaged the front sight. Had to re shape it to hit to point of aim.


Gotta admit tho, that ramp looks really good.

[Texas Star]

Can anyone find and post a photo of the M&P that Geoffrey Boothroyd had modified and which was used on the cover of the James Bond novel, "From Russia, With Love"?

It'd fit right well in this thread. Haven't seen it in awhile, but I think he had the front of the trigger guard cut away, and later felt that it was a mistake. I agree. But he otherwise had a really good fighting .38. The basic gun was a .38-200, used because it was in the UK and currency laws were limiting importation of new guns from the US at that time. He did later procure some new US arms.

Artist Richard Chopping painted it for the cover in realistic detail.

[SG-688]

[Higganum]

Nice job, 80sgyrene.

[Jaymo]

80s gyrene, all I can say about your M&P is, OORAH!
Very nice.

I think that gun of Tipoc's is perfect.
I'd like to build one.

[Oyeboteb]

Here's one I did back in a few years ago, after a long hiatus of not doing anything with Guns at all, sure was fun to get going again too.


This was your Garden Variety ex-Police Trade-in 'S & W' Model 10-6, 4 inch Heavy Barrel, Square Butt, Service Magna Stocks, etc.

I lopped an inch or so off of the Barrel, made a new Front Sight for it and installed that, Bobbed the Hammer, rounded the Grip.

A nice size and a nice shape then...and no snags.

[Oyeboteb]

I did this one in the late 1980s...carried it just about every day till a couple years ago.

[Oyeboteb]

I must really like 'Belly Guns'!


Here's one which left the Factory just as you see it.

.38 S & W Chambering.

Iver Johnson 3rd Model.

[DWFAN]

Originally Posted by SG-688

To give credit: these two belong to Tipoc.

I don't think I've seen any other forum photo re-posted as often as this one. We all lust for it. FWIW - I call dibs.

I called first dibs the minuet it was posted. Get in line.
DW

[tipoc]

I've been busy of late and a friend called my attention to this thread.

The letter I received from Mr. Jinks told me the gun was shipped from S&W on Sept. 30th 1947 as a 4" M&P. It went directly to the King Gun Sight Co. of San Francisco, Ca. Likely it was altered there.



Here it sits above a Combat Masterpiece from 1955 with a 4" barrel.



Note the trigger guard.







tipoc

[tipoc]

A few views of the details.









I'm glad I found this old gun. I'm glad S&W enthusiasts and others taught me the difference between a chopped up gun and quality modifications. Enjoy the pics.

tipoc

[lowercase]

Tipoc, that old custom M&P is amazing!

[lawandorder]

Tipoc thank you for the additional images. Seems like there are so many of who like your revolver you may have to start a fan club.

[DWFAN]

I'm glad you have it. I'd be happier if I did. I appreciate well done modifications that enhance The actual product and this has to be one of the very best. Remember, first dibs,
DW

[Malpasowildlifer]

Originally Posted by DWFAN

I have lusted after this gun for years.
DW

that is cool

[BC38]

These are EXCELLENT. Kudos to Tipoc, Oyeboteb, 80sgyrene, DWFan.
How did each of you put the front sight blade back on the shortened barrel?

[lawandorder]

Tipoc I have the same treatment on the trigger guards of some of the revolvers I own. Here is the 649 I carry daily.



Don't know if it is big help but even a fraction of a second can sometimes mean a big difference.

[tipoc]

This can be a useful treatment for folks with large digits or gloved hands.

tipoc

[Michael J. Spangler]

You guys are killing me

There was an awesome pic on the 1917 modification thread where a 1917 Brazilian was done up like this.

With the chopped barrel, service grips and tyler t grip it has to be one of the best looking revolvers I've ever seen.
I've looked at a lot of chopped 38s and nothing seems to balance out the way that the 1917 looks with that big cylinder.
Beautiful guns guys!

[Dave T]

Originally Posted by Michael J. Spangler

You guys are killing me

There was an awesome pic on the 1917 modification thread where a 1917 Brazilian was done up like this.

With the chopped barrel, service grips and tyler t grip it has to be one of the best looking revolvers I've ever seen.
I've looked at a lot of chopped 38s and nothing seems to balance out the way that the 1917 looks with that big cylinder.
Beautiful guns guys!

This thread started about K-frames but since you brought up chopped 17s...I have become quite fond of this one:



It would hide a little better if it had been round butted but since I didn't do the modifications I can't complain too much. (smile)

Dave

[Michael J. Spangler]

thats beautiful.
i really like how the service grips look on a chopped 1917.
thats beautiful

[29-1]

Here's one from a retired FBI Agent who carried this modified M1917 throughout his posting in Las Vegas in the early 1950's.
Chuck

[COULT D]

Might have loaded the wrong picture? Looks like a K-frame not a 1917, as stated. Victory M&P shortened to 3 inches. Nice. Gun either way.

[Muley Gil]

Just noticed that the right grip is a Magna and the left grip is a Magna with the top of the horn cut off. Probably to better access the cylinder release.

"i really like how the service grips look on a chopped 1917."

Michael, the grips on the chopped 1917 in post # 34 are Magnas. The grips on the revolver in post # 36 are service grips.

[Michael J. Spangler]

thanks muley.
i was referring to the one on the 1917 thread. though the 1917 on this thread looks awesome. i don't think the magnas on it look as nice ad the service grips on the 1917 modification thread.

[Muley Gil]

Originally Posted by Michael J. Spangler

thanks muley.
i was referring to the one on the 1917 thread. though the 1917 on this thread looks awesome. i don't think the magnas on it look as nice ad the service grips on the 1917 modification thread.

While there isn't that much recoil to a 1917, Magnas feel a lot better, at least in my hands.

[semperfi71]

I too have been an admirer of tipoc's "Pre-M13" for a long time.

Thanks for the extra photos tipoc, it's a beauty.

Whoever originally owned that revolver was ahead of his/her time. A knowledgeable gun-toter.

It took S&W what? about 30 or 40 years to recognize the excellent characteristics of a 3 inch K-Frame?

[feralmerril]

I have this 3" pencil barrel model 36. For a small light compact revolver it aint bad! 3"s is 3"s! 3"s in a J frame is lighter to pack and what it gives up is 5 shots opposed to 6. I also have a 3" ported 66-3 and a 2 1/2" python. But really what little I carry them is with the same ammo I put in the lighter model 36. Something to think about.

[semperfi71]

I've been-a-thinkin' along feralmerril's lines for a couple of months now.

A 3 inch J-Frame with fixed sights would be an excellent trail/carry revolver. Especially in stainless. The barrel length is no less concealable than a 2 inch. But the 3 inch might balance better. One extra shot has never been of importance to me since I am birthed and wedded to Colt and Clone single-actions carried with only five founds.

An excellent excuse to buy another gun!!

I also bet if a well set up gunsmith was to properly "clone" tipoc's beauty he/she might just have a nice "niche" business. Granted you can find a 3 inch M13/M65, and they are beauties but tipoc's "Pre-13" has a panache all its own.

[DWFAN]

I don't know where we are getting this pre-13 thing from but the closest modern example of tipoc's gun would be this. The Australian contract model 10. Although not a round butt neither was the tipoc gun.
DW

[semperfi71]

"We" are getting "this Pre-13 thing" because that is what came to mind. I have seen the Aussie M10's and if they pre-date the M13 then they get the nod.

I find that the 3 inch K-Frames with fixed sights are about the best fitting and most naturally pointing S&W handgun for me.

[Jaymo]

I think the 2" and 3" 10s are some of the best looking fixed sight Smiths I've ever seen.
I am unabashedly biased. My 10-5 2" makes me happy all over.

[DWFAN]

Originally Posted by semperfi71

"We" are getting "this Pre-13 thing" because that is what came to mind. I have seen the Aussie M10's and if they pre-date the M13 then they get the nod.

I find that the 3 inch K-Frames with fixed sights are about the best fitting and most naturally pointing S&W handgun for me.

No offense but "We" shouldn't be designating something that doesn't exist. To many souls on this forum rely on what's said here and "We" shouldn't be misleading them. If I am wrong here correct me please.
DW

[semperfi71]

I don't think my post would be misleading. If someone is mislead they should do more research or ask questions.

So much is posted in this forum, or spoken at gun-shops, or at the shooting range I would suspect my informal comment is of little importance in any fashion other than describing what I am seeing.

[29-1]

On the subject of the Model 13 and subsequent - variations. Here are 3 that went to Quantico to the FBI. This model was the successor to the Model 10-6 in .357 Magnum. Nearly all FBI Model 13s were destroyed and buried. How these got out is a mystery but I'm glad they did.
Enjoy
Chuck



Here is the letter on one of them, the other two were sent to the FBI but later.