Found this in a blue box left to me by my grandmother

That is because the box is from the late 1960s or 1970s and that gun looks likes it is from Pre World War I or for sure before 1930.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

The gun is a 1st model .32 hand ejector, and was replaced by the 1903 model in that year. The 1st model came out in 1896 and was S&Ws first gun with a swing out cylinder.

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Tom
1560

What are the chances of seeing pics of the ends of the box?

Welcome to the S&W forum.

Did your grandmother leave another gun to another family member? Their gun may be in your box......

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Box has Model No. (14-3) FIN (B) Barrel (6) Stock(S)
SER. NO. (K 9-- 166)

Gun only has S/N 13XXX. and Patent dates on cylinder

The box is from a model 14-3 (continuation of the K-38 Masterpiece) with 6" barrel and blued finish, service stocks (what are nornally called Magnas).

I bought a nice Chief Special a while back from a woman in Massachusetts, who posted here on the site to sell it. It had belonged to her dad, who had been on the job with the Boston PD in the 1950's through 1970's. She got ahold of me when she later found the box for it....unfortunately her dad's gun was a 1971-72 nickel Chief and the box was for a 1973-74 blue Chief . Apparently he had only owned this one gun (at least in later years) and she was sure that it had come in this box. I told her that I wouldn't be surprised if the gun had just gotten put in the closest appropriate box when her dad bought it, whether it was at a police supply outfit or a civilian gun shop or sporting goods place.
I ended up buying it, but didn't pay the premium that I might have if it had been "the box" instead of "a box".

This is correct. I will add that on close inspection of your photo, I can see "A Bangor Punta Company" on the box top. This indicates the box comes from the period after 1965, when the Wesson family sold the company to the international conglomerate, Bangor Punta. The era ended in 1984, when Lear Siegler bought out BP. Sometime in 1987, Lear Siegler divested itself of the S&W brand.
The Model 14-3 was made from 1967, through the end of 1976. So that narrows the window down to a 9 or 10 year period.
Jack

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Thanks for all the info. Would it be worth it to have the gun re-blued. There are more pictures in photobucket. The action is smooth and all parts are tight. There is one ugly scratch on the side plate from a screw driver that could be fixed and covered if it was re-blued.

This Smith is quite collectable and probably about 120 years old. I see a fair amount of bluing left on the Model 1896 and any attempt at refinishing would totally ruin the collector value. This is an important S&W, since it was the first hand ejector made by the company and deserves to show its age unmolested.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

No, just this one to me. The box may be from a gun my grandfather owned.

I think it would take minimum effort to make it look like new

A Re-finish of the blue would drop it's value below what it is now and re-finish cost would be a loss. It would lose all originality and it's collectability as a collector gun would drop from "somewhat" to almost none. As a shooter, no change.

A Restoration re-blue would be in the range of $400 and value would not change, so it would be a $400 loss if sold. It would lose all originality and it's Collectibility might still be "somewhat" or slightly enhanced. As a shooter, about the same as above or slightly enhanced.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

It seem that you still want to make an antique look like new. I have said this before, but it bears repeating - We are only temporary caretakers of history and if our items are properly cared for, future owners will see increasing values and the pleasure of knowing the item was not tampered with and remains original.

Please consider purchasing an Model 1903, which is in the same caliber to take to the range and either keep your 1896 as is or sell it to someone who will appreciate the current condition.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Would this be a shooter? There are posts that say the leaf springs have limited life. And I see the value is only in the hundreds of dollars not thousands. Is there any value to a shooter?

I have seen many before and after's and I would say they have increased the value.

I believe a few people would disagree. But it's your weapon, and as such it's your perogative to have it refinished as often as pleases you.

As for the new box on the old gun, I think Granny went to her final reward with a big grin on her face knowing the questions it would raise.

You asked for advice. If you're not going to follow it,why did you bother asking in the first place?
f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

I understand "original". The ugly side plate scratch is the first thing I see. I cant help but want to fix it.

Then by all means,have it re-blued. It's YOURS!
f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

If you were going to fix a scratch in the side plate how would you do it? Leaving it "as is" is already in-play.

The scratch stands out mostly because it's bright metal showing. The simplest thing would be to take a toothpick and apply a good cold blue like OxPho Blue cream from Brownells in the scratch only!

That won't make it 'disappear' but be much less noticeable. And not completely blow the originality. Any 'patching' would make it a bigger eyesore.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

The edges of the scratch are raised about .003". I thought about tamping them down, to try and push the metal back to the middle.

Just a word about boxes. I have seen gunshops that sold guns on display and would grab a box from the back room or under the counter without necessarily checking the numbers. Especially in busy, hi-volume shops. If you bought a 4in Model 19 , they sometimes just grabbed a S&W box that fit. Some purchasers even said, "forget the box" as they bought a holster or pistol rug/butterfly case , etc at the same time. Not too many people made a big deal about it back then.

Sounds like you have a gouge, not a scratch. "tamping' it down (peening)would help if done with some skill. However, results can look worse! If you want to try that, do a lot of practicing on something else first. You'll need a punch with about a 1/8" convex tip, polished to a mirror finish and very small gunsmith hammer. Or find someone with experience.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Gouge

A new screw would help too. The main problem with peening something like this is the edges of the punch tip. They leave little half moon marks on the surface because it's impossible to keep the punch perfectly straight up and down and the hammer taps perfectly straight downward, or it will cant the punch. That's why a slight convex punch tip surface is important with no sharp edges to contact the work surface. The metal "upsetting" needs to be done with the center of the punch tip.

If you have to do any smoothing up when you get done, the gouge becomes a larger area that's not easy to hide. So it should be done w/o sanding it. There's lots'a surface rust patina between the remaining blued areas so a rust brown touch up (like used on muzzle loading rifle barrels) would probably blend in better than blue touch up.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I don't mind the screw, its original and still works. Is it possible to peen a screw head back in shape?

Normally, but the burred metal that one would peen back in shape is gone. There's just divits left. The best you could do is spin the screw in a drill and recreate the crown by holding 400 grit paper with a sanding block to it. Then file the slot deeper and polish the screw head.

But original screws are not hard to find. You would need a pre war side plate screw for proper diameter. Post war screws are the same thread but slightly larger diameter. Sometimes they'll fit in pre war worn threads. But I can send you some sources to get the right one.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I am thinking this would make a nice start to a Smith and Wesson revolver collection. I would like to know what 2013 model would be the closest match to 1896? Or what has the 1896 evolved into? Something 2013 should not be hard to find "New In Box". Finding the in-between model years could be a lot of fun.

Excellent idea!

The current model is the 632 on this page:
Revolvers - Smith & Wesson

It shoots .32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R Magnum and the .327 Federal Magnum. Retails for $899 and in my eyes, is ugly, but a great evolutionary version of you 1st model revolver, nonetheless.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Your best bet right now in to put it in the safe and give it a lot of thought. Once refinished or partially restored there's no going back. Most of us older guys would leave it "as is" and enjoy it for what it is. But don't hurry into a decision that you would probably regret years down the road.

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Get off my lawn!

After looking at it and , if I am hearing right, the gun as is has no real collector value. The owner does not like it as is. He would be more happy with it restored. If the gun has no collector value to ruin, then whats the harm to restore it?

Well, as Jim (Hondo44) said above -
A Re-finish of the blue would drop it's value below what it is now and re-finish cost would be a loss. It would lose all originality and it's collectability as a collector gun would drop from "somewhat" to almost none. As a shooter, no change.

A Restoration re-blue would be in the range of $400 and value would not change, so it would be a $400 loss if sold. It would lose all originality and it's Collectibility might still be "somewhat" or slightly enhanced. As a shooter, about the same as above or slightly enhanced.

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Get off my lawn!

As a member of this forum for some time now and a small time, low dollar collector of Smiths, I've come to appreciate two important realities of the collector ethos:

A. We are only part-time custodians of infinite number for a finite amount of original S&Ws until they out live us, and there is no autocracy to tell us what we must do with the guns for which we paid for the privilege to be become the custodians.

B. There are different levels of collectability:

1. High dollar collectibles or safe queens above 95% original condition or so rare (in any condition) that deserve the highest level of custodial care.

2. Lower dollar collectibles that show various states of wear but still in original, un-abused or un-modified configuration that can be shot and used/enjoyed without detriment to their somewhat collectability. This can include professionally restored (not re-finished) examples.

3. Low dollar non-collectibles that are worn, abused, modified and/or re-finished, etc., that are simply wanted as shooters and host guns for other improvements.

The simple reality is, there are S&W lovers of each category usually dictated by their individual financial means. Each time a gun from category 1 & 2 is lowered to level 3 either intentionally or unintentionally, the finite number of specimens in those categories is reduced, never to be increased again. And those collectors able to pay for level 1 & 2 gun custodial care are deprived as more guns are reduced to level 3.

I see MilkToast's gun in category two and therefore somewhat collectible as I posted above; for one thing it's an example of the very 1st model HE and much of its original finish still remains, including its serial number matching grips.

Just personally, I can't afford a 1 level gun which is true, or often the case for a 2 level gun. But if I want a rare barrel length or caliber configuration, etc., of a level 1 gun for example, I will seek to buy a level 3 gun to modify, restore or otherwise create and also be able to shoot. I would not pick a level 1 gun even if I could afford it or a level 2 gun to use for my purpose the way I understand the meaning of the collector ethos.

But that's just me, no one is telling me that I have to do it.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

"including its serial number matching grips". You would need to see under the grips to say for sure?

Sorry, was confused by your #6 post. Check these locations:

Gun butt - or forestrap on I frames with target grips
Barrel* - underneath or in extractor shroud
Yoke* - on rear face visible thru a chamber with a flashlight
Extractor star - backside
Cylinder - rear face
Right stock – backside

*NOTE: the barrel will usually also have the B prefix to serial # for original Blue finish (and larger B suffix for Bright blue, with same B on the left toe and rear face of cyl under the extractor in the early ‘50s when satin was standard), N for original Nickel or S for service dept. replacement. In addition the left side of the grip frame and yoke on some pre war guns may have the small B or N serial # prefix.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

There are hand written numbers inside the grip. Should the numbers be stamped in? All the other numbers on the gun are stamped.

What would be the best way to clean the gun up? With leaving as is already mentioned.

Tooth brush, parts cleaner, re-oil?

Clean all metal surfaces thoroughly with solvent (like mineral spirits) and a soft cloth. Penetrating oil is also good, or maybe Hoppe's #9.
Apply several coats of paste wax (I use Johnson's). Some rave about the benefits of a product called Renaissance Wax. I have never used it.

Still can't find a 632. 1896 shipping letter on it's way. Gouge still in place.

It makes me happy to hear the gun hasn't been refinished.

Wingmaster

Stock #s were stamped since 1857, then changed to penciled #s c. 1900 and back to stamped #s in 1929. So yours was made right after the 1900 change. Your letter will confirm.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Most that I have seen with the hard rubber grips that this gun has have the serial number scratched into the backside of the right grip rather than written in pencil as was done on wood stocks. Trying to stamp a number on the rubber grips would most likely break them and a pencil mark would easily wipe off.

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Tom
1560

Tom,

I always forget the hard rubbers.
thx,

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Jim
S&WCA #819

You know the rule when it comes to S&Ws: The main rule is, there are no rules!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I too, being a purist, am glad to see that you didn't refinish the gun. It's kind of like having a facelift and hoping the results have no negative affect. (Ask Mickey Rourke how that's working out for him)

The way that gun is today is the way that it has lived its life and should be valued for that life. Folks that don't like the condition of older worn guns either shouldn't buy them or sell them and get something new and shiney.

I have an 1899 Navy that is fairly rough but salt water will do that to metal. I appreciate the gun for what it went through and other than a good cleaning and a coat of Renaissance Wax to prevent further damage, the gun remains as I received it.

Just my 2 cents worth. Your gun, your choice.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Maybe not the right forum for this picture but it was home to a 1896 for 40 plus years. The box has no gouges.