Hi. I'm brand new to this forum. I hope I'm not posting wrong, and I don't think I'm breaking any rules. I just wondered if somebody might be able to steer me the right direction with this S&W 38. It's so pretty. I took pics.

Well I'm only seeing one of the 5 or 6 pics I uploaded. Let me try some more.

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I'm sorry. Why can't I get more than one picture to upload?

Welcome to the Forum from Iowa.
All I see is the picture of the butt with serial number. If I read it correctly it was born in 1942.
It is probably a Military and Police revolver. It is one of S&Ws most popular revolvers. In 1957 it became the Model 10, and millions have been produced. It would have a fixed rear sight, just a groove in the topstrap.
Tell us a few things: What is the barrel length, measured from front of cylinder to muzzle? Does it say .38 S&W Special or .38 S&W on the side of the barrel? They are not interchangeable.
When you figure out how, post the rest of the pictures.
Jim

While I was typing (with just two fingers) you posed another pic.
WOW, that's a nice one!
Looks like a 5" barrel. Very nice engraving. It is a .38 S&W, not a .38 Special. You can still find ammo for it in some places.
It was probably made for the British in WWII. It became the Model 11 in 1957.
Very nice revolver.
Jim

Thank you for the helpful info, Jim. I really appreciate it.

I don't see a picture with a SN, but I assume it began life as a pre-Victory or Victory .38/200. Someone spent some significant money and time on fixing up a military revolver. One wonders why? Perhaps as a presentation piece? It sort of looks like Mexican decorative gilding work to me.

It didn't become either a Model 10 or a Model 11 later. There were several very significant engineering changes made to the wartime M&Ps prior to the beginning of those models. There is only a similarity in appearance.

Welcome to the forum. It is possible that some of your photos are too large for upload. The one I see shows the right side of the gun. I didn't see the photo of the butt, so I don't know what the serial number is. The model would be called the British Service Revolver. Internally, S&W called this the K-200 for short, as it chambered the Webley MkII round, also known as .38/200 (.38 caliber, 200 gr bullet).

The gun was probably re-blued after WWII and then engraved. The engraved surfaces were then gilded in some manner, and I'm not informed enough about engraving or plating to know what process might have been used. The trigger and hammer look as though they have some rust or corrosion starting, and it might be wise to disassemble the revolver and clean up those parts when they are away from the ornamental surface. If you don't feel comfortable doing that yourself, you might want to look for a combination gunsmith/jeweler to undertake the process for you.

Those look like horn stocks on the gun. This is speculative, but if they were, say, water buffalo horn, that might hint at where the ornamental work was done after the gun left military service.

Or I could be even less informed than I think I am. That happens more often than I'd like.

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David Wilson

Welcome to this forum!
I see the trademark on the sideplate (right side of handgun) and the engraving appears very well done. Please keep trying to upload pictures. Very interesting indeed.

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Halfway and one more step

After WW II, many surplus S&Ws were engraved in Germany. US and Brit servicemen could have it done very cheaply since the German economy was a wreck.

I suspect your gun was done in that time and place.

You seem to be deleting your old pic when you add a new one.
You don't have to do that.
After you upload a new pic, click "Browse" again, and upload another pic.
Keep doing that till you have uploaded 4 more pics, and then click Save Changes.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I'm having the same problem uploading pics.
For some reason it will only allow one photo per post, and when you select a new file to upload, it replaces the one you selected before.


To Rhonda70, if it isn't too much to ask, could you post each pic you have in a separate post?
If you did that, one of the Mod staff may be able to consolidate all of your pics into one post.

Thank you Jim, DWalt, David, Old TexMex, Lee and Hillbilly. I think I finally got some to post. I was doing it from my iPhone before, and now I'm on the pc at work. I also had to reduce the file size.

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Engraving seems nice, probably filled in with an ink product like "Rub"n"Buff" then the high spots rubbed clean.

670582 is a very early SN for a pre-Victory military, typical of sometime in 1939, which is prior to production under any of the British Commonwealth military contract orders starting in March 1940. Allegedly, some of the early British military shipments were revolvers made up on older serial-numbered K-frames in factory inventory going back into the earlier 1930s, and this may well be one of them.

It certainly is a conversation piece.

This may be the lowest serial number I have ever encountered on a .38 Military & Police that chambers the .38 S&W cartridge. Common wisdom has it that the first Commonwealth contract (South Africa, I believe) began around serial number 685000. I dimly recall having heard of a BSR numbered in the 669xxx range, but I have been unable to unearth a reference to it in an hour of grubbing about on the internet. I won't claim that to be a correct memory if I can't document it.

Is the serial number on the butt of the gun also seen on the flat underside of the barrel and on the rear face of the cylinder? If there are no numbers in the secondary locations, then parts were replaced -- probably after WWII -- before the gun was engraved. If numbers are present but differ, the gun was assembled from parts in an armorer's stores. If the numbers match, this gun is possibly a great deal more interesting as a piece of history than it is as an example of ornamentation. I think I might spend the $50 on a history letter from S&W to find out whether it was part of an early Commonwealth contract or even one of an inspection set of revolvers shipped to the British for evaluation after S&W's 9mm light rifle failed its acceptance tests.

Definitely a very interesting revolver.

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David Wilson

I remember reading that one .38/200 was found with a SN in the mid-630000 range, but I don't remember where. Possible, but unconfirmed. If the SNs on this one match, it would be worthy of a factory letter just to see where it went first. Or it could simply be an old frame in inventory which was made up as a .38/200 early in the British contract production.

David, I just snapped a couple of pics of the other serial numbers I found. It looks, to me, like the one on the metal piece on the butt matches the one inside the cylinder. It's hard to tell because of that spot of rust on the butt. See if you can tell from these pics: the pic of the butt is above.

There is writing along the top of the barrel that is hard for me to see without a magnifying glass, but what I can see says "smith & Wesson Springfield mass USA,
Patented feb 6 06, sept 14 09, dec 29 14.

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I'm trying the photo from iPhone thing again. There's no telling how I've messed up this thread. I'm just trying to show the serial numbers but each time I add one, I delete the other.

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The barrel SN would be stamped on a flat at the bottom - above the ejector rod. But it does appear that the frame and cylinder SNs match.

That looks like the same serial number to me, with ending digits 531. It also appears to me from the position of the illuminated ridge inside one chamber of the cylinder that the gun has not been reamed out to take .38 Special -- that chamber looks deep enough to take a .38/200 round, but not a round with a longer case.

The stamping on the barrel top is a list of patent dates that S&W put on 99+ percent of its products before and during WWII. While the actual list of patents differed a little from model to model through time, the stamp you have on your revolver is the one S&W put on its M&P revolvers from the late 'teens through WWII.

I know it is easy to spend other people's money, but I encourage you to letter that one at a cost of $50. I can't promise you that the low serial number points to extremely early production, because the company would sometimes at a later date build out numbered frames it had stashed somewhere in the factory several years earlier. But enough is interesting about this gun that I think research might establish its right to assert a claim on collectors' attention. That would help its value.

Speaking of which, establishing a value is a little hard for this revolver. The British Service Revolver was manufactured in several hundred thousand copies, so it is not a scarce model. But collectors of military and foreign contract guns recognize sub-varieties that exist in different quantities, so there are pockets of scarcity within the field. Even with the rust here and there that could be a historically interesting revolver with appeal to collectors of WWII revolvers. A basic rough but functional BSR might be a $300 gun, and a specimen in top condition or from an uncommon contract might double that amount. In this case the engraving adds something to the gun, but I'm not sure how much. It is possible that some collectors might value it at $1000 or a little more. Based on the few photos and my eternal optimism and enthusiasm. I'd think it could be sold to someone right now for around $800.

I wonder if there could be anything helpful written on the inner surfaces of the grip panels. Do those look like horn to anybody else, by the way? Or are they synthetic?

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David Wilson

Thanks for the info, David. What's involved in getting a "letter" for $50? I'm sorry, but I have no idea what that means. Should I clean the gun like I would one that I'm currently using? Maybe tonight I'll look inside the grips.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-han...uest-form.html

That was fast. I looked at the form. Do you think where it asks for any other info, I should print and send a copy of the suggestions on this thread?

I believe I would just print and attach all of the pictures you have taken, especially those showing the serial numbers. It will probably take several months to get a reply. When you receive it, please post the letter. I am sure many would like to see what Roy has to say about it.

Thanks a bunch, David. I have the form all filled out and pictures attached. I'll mail it today.

Nice snag.

Look forward to the results from the letter.

Actually, the letter was posted in this thread a couple of weeks ago:

How much is this revolver worth?

When I posted earlier in this thread, I could not see a V prefix on the butt of the gun and took that to mean the revolver was a prewar gun. There is however a V prefix visible on the rear face of the cylinder, so the gun is of wartime production rather than prewar. I believe the lanyard loop folded to the side obscures a V prefix on the butt.

The photo of the letter is quite small but is almost legible (though blurry) if enlarged.

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David Wilson

I have 715xxx 38/300 that was shipped in Nov. 1940. I think DWalt is on to something.. an earlier N frame that got made up later when the British 38/200 contracts came out. . It makes the most sense... but then again I wasn't around then...

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