There was the K32. And the 22 Combat Masterpiece. And the 38 CM was also made in 2" and 5" (special order for cops). I don't know of any other models that were dubbed "Masterpiece" but I'm sure one of the experts will come along and point out others.
See, Lee beat me by a few seconds. I was unaware of a 32 CM. Anyone got a photo of one?
First, let's correct your #3. The name was K-38 Masterpiece. "Target" was never part of the name despite the mistake in the SCSW.
That said, here are some you missed that come to mind:
K-22 Combat Masterpiece
K-32 Masterpiece
K-32 Combat Masterpiece (a few samples only, never went into full production)
Here are the model numbers that were added in 1958 (using the order listed above):
M 17
M 15
M 14
M 18
M 16
(none assigned)
Quote:
I'm guessing there all pre model numbered revolvers?
Well, that's not correct. The Masterpiece name, along with all other revolver names, survived the decision to add model numbers. For example, the K-22 Masterpiece became the Model 17 K-22 Masterpiece. They did not lose their names.
Don't use 'Target' with these-
K-22 Masterpiece
K-32 Masterpiece
K-38 Masterpiece
Don't use the 'K' with these-
22 Combat Masterpiece
32 Combat Masterpiece
38 Combat Masterpiece
Lee
While I always hesitate to challenge any gorilla in his own field, the factory literature that came with all my Combat Masterpiece revolvers (of either caliber) clearly states "K-38 Combat Masterpiece Revolver Model No. 15" (or K-22 as the case may be). All the box labels I've seen do the same thing, as do period advertisements. I know it is common among collectors to delete the K in front of the caliber on the CMs, but that does not seem to have been the practice of the company itself. Why do we want to insist on dropping the K?
"Smith & Wesson Combat Masterpiece"
.38 Special (M15), .22 LR (M18) (No mention of K-38 or K-22 made)
--------
The 1954 Gun Digest (pre-Model numbering) lists:
"K-22 - K-32 - K-38 Masterpiece Revolvers" (no mention of "Target" made)
"The Combat Masterpiece"
.38 S&W Special and .22 LR (No mention of K-38 or K-22 made)
Why not "TARGET" in the name of the 6" masterpieces.
Its right there on the box.
Hi Charlie
No one disputes that these are, and were called, "Target Revolvers." The question is whether the name was "Target Masterpiece." And it wasn't. Saying, "K-22 Masterpiece Target Revolver" is different than saying, "K-22 Target Masterpiece revolver." A subtle, but real, difference, in my opinion.
The 1961 Gun Digest (post-model numbering) makes the following references in its catalog section:
"Smith & Wesson Masterpiece Target Models"
K-22 (M17), K-32 (M16), K-38 (M14)
"Smith & Wesson Combat Masterpiece"
.38 Special (M15), .22 LR (M18) (No mention of K-38 or K-22 made)
--------
The 1954 Gun Digest (pre-Model numbering) lists:
"K-22 - K-32 - K-38 Masterpiece Revolvers" (no mention of "Target" made)
"The Combat Masterpiece"
.38 S&W Special and .22 LR (No mention of K-38 or K-22 made)
Sure. And the Shooter's Bible does the same thing. But against that, you have the factory literature, which does consistently use the K designator. So, in my view, either one can be correct, I just don't think we should insist that the K designation be dropped as incorrect, since the factory did not do this.
Edited to add-
Oh, heck- I'll just go ahead and copy it all here for ya-
Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goring's S&W
Quote:
Your revolver is known as a K-22 Rimfire Masterpiece.
Quote:
After WWII, S&W began to make a K-22 with a 4 inch barrel, and they called it the K-22 Rimfire Combat Masterpiece.
The 6 in K-22 aka pre model 17 is more accurately known as a "K-22 target masterpiece" while the 4 in K-22 aka pre model 18 is known as a "K-22 combat masterpiece". AFAIK, the company never called either a "rimfire masterpiece" since all K-22s are rimfire anyways.
Actually, the factory never had "TARGET" in the names of the Masterpiece line.
In the description, YES.
In the name, NO.
This OP's gun is a "K-22 Masterpiece"
The 4 inch version is a "22 Combat Masterpiece" without the K
About 1950,All Model Circulars begin using Heavy in the name of the K-32 Masterpiece and K-38 Masterpiece, as in K-38 Heavy Masterpiece, but eventually dropped the Heavy as the lighter barrels faded into the past.
The names of the models are:
K-22 Masterpiece (6 inch)
K-32 Masterpiece (6 inch)
K-38 Masterpiece (6 inch)
38 Combat Masterpiece (4 inch)
22 Combat Masterpiece (4 inch)
Since the 38 Combat Masterpiece preceded the 22 Combat Masterpiece and there were initially NO plans to build a 22 version, the early All Model Circulars showing the 38 Combat Masterpiece simply called it the Combat Masterpiece- See Pic #4. The 38 was added to Combat Masterpiece AFTER the 22 Combat Masterpiece was introduced.
I have posted this data a bunch of times.
Y'all write it down!
Pics below are from 1946, 1950, 1969, 1950, and 1969 All Model Circulars.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
Last edited by handejector; 05-15-2014 at 01:51 PM.
Why not "TARGET" in the name of the 6" masterpieces.
Its right there on the box. I think there is not one right answer here.
Charlie
This is exactly what I have my two revolvers in k22 & k38 appear to be masterpiece "target" revolvers. The k22 is a pre and 1948 dated I haven't dated the other two.
Lee
While I always hesitate to challenge any gorilla in his own field, the factory literature that came with all my Combat Masterpiece revolvers (of either caliber) clearly states "K-38 Combat Masterpiece Revolver Model No. 15" (or K-22 as the case may be). All the box labels I've seen do the same thing, as do period advertisements. I know it is common among collectors to delete the K in front of the caliber on the CMs, but that does not seem to have been the practice of the company itself. Why do we want to insist on dropping the K?
You are correct to a degree-
there IS an anomaly in the Mod 15 Instruction sheets. They DO use the term "K-38 Combat Masterpiece".
I believe it is just that- an ANOMALY. Catalogs contemporary with those Instruction sheets do not use the "K" with the Combat Masterpiece name.
The first two pics are Instruction sheets that are before Bangor Punta. Note the diamond grips.
Pics 3 & 4 are Bangor Punta dated 1967 and lack diamonds.
For what it's worth, I purchased a Gold Box for a K38 masterpiece and found a label in the bottom of the box that, at one time, had been applied over the end label of the standard K38 box. The serial number on the box was early 1950s, before model numbers. No "K".
On my gold s&w box that came with my 1948 k22 masterpiece it says "k22" on the s&w box?
I'm confused now.
If you have a box for a 6" Masterpiece, it is a K22, K32, or K38. If it were a 4" Combat Masterpiece, it would not be stamped with the "K". Some early Combat Masterpiece revolvers were shipped in 6" boxes and simply re-labeled right over one of the end labels. The box I was referring to now has K38 Masterpiece on both ends, since the over-label just must have fallen off or was removed.
The simple answer is there were 3 caliber and 2 barrel lengths. 6 different guns had the Masterpiece name as stated in a few different ways above. I have still to see even a picture of a 32 Combat Masterpiece, but believe the experts that at least samples were made.
Thank you to everyone for your help. It can get confusing because being a noobie these can be called different names than they really are on the for sale sights. Thanks again. Masterpiece Target. I got it.
Hey guys!
We forgot about the Model 48 - the K-22 Masterpiece Magnum!
Wouldn't this be called a k22 masterpiece combat magnum in the 4" barrel and the k22 masterpiece target magnum in the 6" barrel. Just kidding but others would call it something else.
Was the Model 48 (.22 WMR) ever actually called a K-22 "Masterpiece" Magnum by S&W? It's essentially identical to the K-22 Masterpiece (.22 LR) except for caliber, but did it also carry the Masterpiece name? The current Model 48 in the "Classic" line is not called a "Masterpiece" by S&W, but the "Classic" K-22 Model 17 is.
One possibility for another "Masterpiece" - The single action only (SAO) version of the K-38 Masterpiece.
I've read that the .22 WMR ammunition causes these revolvers to bind up after awhile due to the propellant used. I've never owned any gun in .22 WMR, and very probably never will, as I couldn't see a good reason to have one from the day it was introduced.
Then I see single actions where these in most calibers or restricted to one or two calibers?
We could write another s&w book to cover the masterpieces alone.
I believe the only modern S&W SAO revolver was a K-38 Masterpiece. I don't believe there were any made in .22 LR or any other caliber. I had a friend who owned one of those. I remember that it used a special hammer unique to the SAO Masterpiece, and not just a simple removal of the double action fly of the conventional hammer. I'm not sure to what customers that the SAO K-38 was intended to appeal, apparently some class of target shooters.
Was the Model 48 (.22 WMR) ever actually called a K-22 "Masterpiece" Magnum by S&W? It's essentially identical to the K-22 Masterpiece (.22 LR) except for caliber, but did it also carry the Masterpiece name?
Yes, Model 48's should be included in the Masterpiece Line, but were never referred to as a K-22 Masterpiece Magnum!! They were first cataloged in along with the K-22 Masterpieces offered in 22 Magnum Rim-Fire (22 M.R.F.) & later cataloged separately as a K-22 Masterpiece M.R.F. Revolver!!
The only .22 Caliber K-Frame ever offered carrying the "Magnum" name was the Model 53...More commonly known as a .22 Jet or .22 Center-Fire Magnum...but didn't carry the Masterpiece moniker being cataloged only as a S&W .22 Magnum even though in most of the Advertising Literature they're referred to as .22 Center-Fire Magnums!! Hope this helps clear things up!!
I've attached a few photos of what I believe you're looking for!! If they downloaded in the correct order.. Left to Right...The 1st is the Earliest Box they shipped in...K-22 Masterpiece with the White M.R.F. Ink-Stamp, 2nd...K-22 Masterpiece-Model 17...Also with White M.R.F. Ink-Stamp and lastly, the Box they shipped in when K-22 Masterpiece M.R.F. & Model 48 was finally imprinted on the Box End itself without the added White M.R.F. Ink-Stamp!!
All of the Early Boxes...Pre-Bangor Punta K-22 Masterpiece Boxes...were Blue w/Solid Silver Borders just like similar Boxes of the era!! Next were the Early Bangor Punta marked Boxes which also had Solid Silver Borders used from Mid-60's into the Early 70's!! And lastly, the Later Bangor-Punta marked Boxes...With the Hash-Mark Line Borders as I refer to them being...which just had a Std. Adhesive-Backed End Label marked with 48 Dash whatever in the Block for the Model Designation!!
I've also attached a couple photos of the Instruction Manuals...Both Pre & Post Bangor Punta in case you wanted to see what they looked like as well!!
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Masterpiece
Last edited by Masterpiece; 05-17-2014 at 12:11 AM.
So that adds another Masterpiece to the list, making 8 if you count the SAO K-38. Strange that the "Classic" Model 48 is not also called a Masterpiece.
cataloged separately as a K-22 Masterpiece M.R.F. Revolver
That's absolutely correct. I was taking a shortcut by substituting "Magnum" for M.R.F. and I should not have done so, given the exactitude we were striving for in this thread. Thanks for correcting this.
Thanks also for showing the pics in your subsequent post. I have long liked the Model 48 and have one now that I shoot. But I've never owned a box for one, so it was nice to see the progression.
I believe the only modern S&W SAO revolver was a K-38 Masterpiece. I don't believe there were any made in .22 LR or any other caliber.
I believe you are correct, DWalt. And I believe the vast majority were Model 14-3. I have two in my collection, one of which is ANIB. The other is 98% but no box. I snagged it at a gun show a few years ago for a song.
Both of mine letter as factory SAO.
But I don't think they should be considered a separate Masterpiece item. They are just a factory-option variation of the K-38 Masterpiece. After all the difference is only two internal parts.
But I don't think they should be considered a separate Masterpiece item. They are just a factory-option variation of the K-38 Masterpiece. After all the difference is only two internal parts.
Jack,
I'm in agreement with you...In as much as they are basically the Revolver...Although S&W did Catalog them separately as K-38 Masterpiece Single Actions beginning in the Early 60's up into the Early 80's...Possibly even longer, but I'd have to check my Later Catalogs to verify that for certain!!
__________________
Masterpiece
Last edited by Masterpiece; 05-17-2014 at 02:30 AM.
Reason: Date Correction
The simple answer is there were 3 caliber and 2 barrel lengths. 6 different guns had the Masterpiece name as stated in a few different ways above. I have still to see even a picture of a 32 Combat Masterpiece, but believe the experts that at least samples were made.
Gary,
Four vintages of 4" 32 Targets, the last of which is a 1948 production 32 Combat Masterpiece, in Mike Priwer's thread here: 4-inch K-32 Targets
I have excellent photos of a same vintage production 32 Combat Masterpiece but I don't have a link. If you PM me your e-mail, I can send it to you.
I believe the only modern S&W SAO revolver was a K-38 Masterpiece. I don't believe there were any made in .22 LR or any other caliber.
As a sidebar, there is a thread from about a year ago with a SAO 1950 44 Target or K22 Masterpiece, IDRC, that lettered as such. Sorry I don't have a link to it.
Although S&W did Catalog them separately as K-38 Masterpiece Single Actions beginning in the Early 60's up into the Early 80's...Possibly even longer
For what it's worth, I just dug one of the SAO letters out of the safe. Here's what Roy wrote:
"In 1961 a Model 14 having a special hammer and trigger was introduced making the handgun a Single Action Only. This Single Action Model 14 was kept in production until 1978 when it was discontinued."
The letter indicates my particular example shipped to Washington Hardware Company in Anchorage on August 24, 1973. There were 10 SAO revolvers in the shipment.
As near as I can tell all examples of the SAO were shipped using the same label on the end of the box as the standard Model 14, but "SA" is written in the Special Features location. That is the way my box looks and the few others I've seen were the same.
As a sidebar, there is a thread from about a year ago with a SAO 1950 44 Target or K22 Masterpiece, IDRC, that lettered as such. Sorry I don't have a link to it.
Thanks, Jim. Is it your suspicion that these were special order guns? I've not seen any indication that there were production models like that. It would be interesting to see a letter on one of those.
I have still to see even a picture of a 32 Combat Masterpiece, but believe the experts that at least samples were made.
Pretty much the same experience here. I believe I might have once or twice seen photos, but there can't be many of them out there, and I've never seen an actual gun.
Part of the standard verbiage in K-38 letters from Roy (of which I have several) says the following:
"Originally the company produced [Combat Masterpiece revolvers] in .22, .32 and .38, however, the .32 was discontinued before it was ever advertised and a very few were produced."
Pretty much the same experience here. I believe I might have once or twice seen photos, but there can't be many of them out there, and I've never seen an actual gun.
Part of the standard verbiage in K-38 letters from Roy (of which I have several) says the following:
"Originally the company produced [Combat Masterpiece revolvers] in .22, .32 and .38, however, the .32 was discontinued before it was ever advertised and a very few were produced."
Jack,
From one of these threads it appears that there were a few groups produced (one with ~40 guns that probably sold cheap to get them out of inventory), with all guns in each group going to one customer. But not the same customer for all production groups, so I guess that would be considered special order production, just not individual guns special ordered.
Here's two more threads with good pix: K-32 What do I have
With this in post #3 from Mike Priwer, one of the "gurus" of 4" K32s:
"I have K685XX, which letters as a 4" K-32 target. Yours looks exactly right for that period - with the Patridge front sight blade. In 98% or so condition, they are worth $4000 to $5000 - at least they were a few years ago."
Back to the SAO K-38. I have to wonder what customers S&W had in mind for an ONLY single action revolver to justify even limited production? It's obviously debatable as to whether it is a separate Masterpiece, but as it differs mechanically and was cataloged separately from the standard K-38, I think a case can be made that it should be.
As a sidebar, there is a thread from about a year ago with a SAO 1950 44 Target or K22 Masterpiece, IDRC, that lettered as such. Sorry I don't have a link to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK
Thanks, Jim. Is it your suspicion that these were special order guns? I've not seen any indication that there were production models like that. It would be interesting to see a letter on one of those.
Yes, I'm convinced which ever it was, 44 or 22, it was a special order and possibly one of a kind. There was lots'a discussion about why anyone would want it.
But then again, there appears to have been a market for the SAO K38 and my understanding is that it was to shoot the NRA Bullseye matches back in the day. The logic back when I shot matches was apparently the smoother action. (I used a S&W M41 for the 22 and a Colt Gold Cup for the centerfire and .45 categories).
But many of the older shooters used K38s with K22s and '55 .45 Targets, so what has me puzzled was why S&W didn't offer SAO K22s and .45s???
Maybe K38s were used in different matches that only required one gun; Camp Perry competitions perhaps?
One would have a difficult time using a SAO revolver in bullseye rapid fire stage (5 shots in 10 seconds), but with practice it probably could be done. I believe the SAO was intended for use in some competition other than bullseye, but I don't know what. It probably wasn't Cowboy Action. I don't know if it would even be "Legal" for CAS, but maybe it would.
Back in my long-ago bullseye shooting days, I did use a K-38 in the centerfire stage.
Those using K38s when I shot Bullseye, didn't shoot them DA even in rapid fire.
Although single action, not allowed in CAS because the SAO designed Hand Ejector did not exist pre 1899.
How many different masterpieces were there?
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