K38 Target Masterpiece

[Rocking Triangle K]

I recently purchased what I believe is a S&W K38 Target Masterpiece 5 screw revolver, SN K45xxx, on butt. It is DA chambered for .38 S&W Special Ctg (stamped on right side of the barrel) with a 6" pinned barrel with a raised tapered and grooved rib and Patridge front sight. It is missing the micro adjustment rear sight. The left side of the barrel is stamped Smith and Wesson and the frame shows it was manufactured in Springfield, Mass. It has the small walnut diamond/checkered grips. Both the bluing and the wood have heavy wear (30% condition overall) but the fluted cylinder chambers and bore are bright with sharp rifling. The trigger and grip straps are grooved and the hammer is the narrow version. The revolver function tests perfectly and the trigger is crisp. It has a frame number but it doesn't match the SN, and, no model number.

Now here is where I need some help. First, the rear sight inside channel measures 0.278". Could you direct me to the best place to buy a replacement micro adjustment sight package? Is the sight interchangeable between all/most/some K frame models?

Secondly, am I correct in that it is indeed a K38 Target Masterpiece (pre Model 14)?

Lastly, does anyone have an idea as to its date of manufacture? I don't have the S&W Catalog.

Thanks in advance for your help. I appreciate it.

Best regards,

RTK

[BrianE]

It never happened without pictures....

Im sure someone will be along shortly to help you out.

[tlay]

With the barrel length it more than likely is the K38 Target Masterpiece or pre14. I would think any post war long action rear sight for a K frame will fit but more experts will come along. You can post on this forum in want to buy to find a sight. Or you can try Numrich.

[DWalt]

That SN would probably have shipped in mid-1948. And it is correctly called a K-38 Masterpiece target revolver, not a "Target Masterpiece." It later became the Model 14. I can't comment much about the rear sight situation,but others will.

[DCWilson]

Welcome to the forum. You are correct in your identification. You have a K-38 Masterpiece that dates from (probably) mid- to late 1948. You don't need to use the word "target" because any Masterpiece model has adjustable sights and is by definition a target model. You hear the phrase "target masterpiece," but the company didn't use that phrase on its boxes or literature.

Any postwar K-frame target sights from the postwar era will fit your gun. Rear sights for the K-22, K-32 and K-38 are identical. You can try parts houses like Numrich, Poppert's, or Jack First (all have internet sites), and you can also check out the parts sections of gun related auction sites like Gunbroker. Your best chance might be to post a "wanted" notice here in the forum classifieds. Many members have their own parts collections and might be able to help you out.

If you are not familiar with the structure of the rear sight, look up an exploded Masterpiece drawing. There is a crucial small flat piece that goes under the rear of the sight and is invisible once the sight is installed. This fits in a slot in the top of the frame and is what the height adjustment screw pushes or pulls against to adjust the height.

Good luck in the hunt. That's a first-year Masterpiece. Regular commercial distribution didn't begin until February of 1948, and only a bare handful of that model seem to have been produced before then, let alone shipped.

[DWalt]

You might also look on eBay. Things like that do show up there. Places like Brownell's and Midway do carry rear sights, but I do not know if they will fit your K-38. See: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smith-Wesson...item33931ea165

[Rocking Triangle K]

Wow, you guys are good! Thanks for all the help and information. Now I'm off to see if I can find the rear sight package.

RTK

[JSR III]

Welcome to the forum.. The frame numbers that you describe sound like assembler numbers and have no bearing out side of the factory. Sounds like a neat early gun.

[tlay]

This way we decide on what our guns are called is confusing! In the SCSW the name for this is the K38 Target Masterpiece. But you guys call it the K38 Masterpiece target! Who decided what to call it? I would think calling them target masterpiece and combat masterpiece makes more sense.

[Skeetr57]

I believe that there are two different rear sights for the K frame targets, with the difference being the location of the front attachment screw. It was moved at some point so that the hole was not in alignment with the barrel cylinder gap. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[DWalt]

You may well be correct, as I also remember reading that. Which is why I was unsure if later sights were proper for postwar Masterpieces. Someone should know about when the hole was moved.

[Black_Talon]

Originally Posted by Skeetr57

I believe that there are two different rear sights for the K frame targets, with the difference being the location of the front attachment screw. It was moved at some point so that the hole was not in alignment with the barrel cylinder gap. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, you're correct.

And, IIRC the screw location was moved with the "-2" revision in 1967-ish.

[linde]

Originally Posted by Skeetr57

I believe that there are two different rear sights for the K frame targets, with the difference being the location of the front attachment screw . . .

Originally Posted by Black_Talon

Yes, you're correct. And, IIRC the screw location was moved with the "-2" revision in 1967-ish.

1967 would be correct but it would be with the -3 revision . . . and it was moved forward from directly over the barrel-cylinder gap to being above the forcing cone area.

Russ

[BigBill]

It's a masterpiece target right?

[BigBill]

Originally Posted by tlay

This way we decide on what our guns are called is confusing! In the SCSW the name for this is the K38 Target Masterpiece. But you guys call it the K38 Masterpiece target! Who decided what to call it? I would think calling them target masterpiece and combat masterpiece makes more sense.

I was told here it's a masterpiece target so I call it a masterpiece target. I did make the mistake calling it a target masterpiece but here they said it's a masterpiece target.

It wasn't my call. Ok it's a s&w k38 masterpiece with a weird front sight blade. I don't know who thunk it up?

[DWalt]

On the earlier factory boxes, it is printed as Masterpiece or Masterpiece target revolver, not Target Masterpiece.

Remember Jimmy Carter's Chief of Staff, Hamilton Jordan? Whenever he was asked how he pronounced his last name, he would reply "My friends call me JERDAN," but you can call me "JORDAN."" So if you want to call it a Target Masterpiece, go ahead.

[tlay]

Not trying to sound like a jerk but why does the book call it a target masterpiece and collectors call it the other? I just want to find out why it is. Thanks.

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by tlay

Not trying to sound like a jerk but why does the book call it a target masterpiece and collectors call it the other? I just want to find out why it is. Thanks.

The K boxes show it as K-xx Masterpiece:




And all S&W advertising back then (pre-Model number days) called it a K-xx Masterpiece. Go figure why some sources call it a Target Masterpiece. S&W did not. Probably for the same reason many people insist on calling the .45 Colt cartridge a .45 Long Colt when there actually is no such thing. Someone who knew no better just started calling it that, it wasn't corrected, and the name caught on.

[Engine49guy]

Originally Posted by tlay

Not trying to sound like a jerk but why does the book call it a target masterpiece and collectors call it the other? I just want to find out why it is. Thanks.

Perhaps when S&W began offering the 4" Combat Masterpiece after 1949 it caused a little confusion as both were actually "Masterpiece" revolvers and available in the same 3 calibers ?

Customer: Sir I want a "Masterpiece" revolver in 38 special....
Shop : We have a 4" Combat Masterpiece and a 6" for target shooting...which one ?
Customer: I want the target Masterpiece.

[Engine49guy]

A note to the OP on rear sites,

There are alot more than just 2 S&W rear site units available so be careful if ordering a whole unit as N frame and J frame rear site units will not work on your gun and neither will the ones for K snubs like the 15, 66 or 19 or the newest rounded style .

Edited to add: Almost forgot, while K frame rear site units made up until around 1966 will fit your gun the older style 40's 50's era rear site has a smaller scalloped cut just behind the blade where late 50's and 60's sites have a wider cut if you want to keep it period correct.

[glowe]

Originally Posted by DWalt

The K boxes show it as K-xx Masterpiece . . . Go figure why some sources call it a Target Masterpiece. S&W did not. Probably for the same reason many people insist on calling the .45 Colt cartridge a .45 Long Colt when there actually is no such thing. Someone who knew no better just started calling it that, it wasn't corrected, and the name caught on.

I usually rely on company printed materials for who "was" right. I say was because you have to look at the time period the gun in question was made. Over time, the company has changed the names of their products. The 38 HE line is a good example of changing model names at least 4 times before the introduction of model numbers.

The only 2 reasons for the emergence of the term 45 Long Colt that I lend any credibility to are when comparing to 45 Schofield or complementing the 38 Long Colt.

In the 1800s, the Frankford Arsenal was basically labeling the two 45 cartridges the same, Colt Revolver, Cal; .45, or Revolver Ball Cartridges, Calibre, .45. How did the military or private individuals order ammo? Did you take your chances, or order the long cartridge for Colt's and the short cartridge for S&W?

The more logical association to the 45 Long Colt term would be to compliment the 38 Long Colt, plus easily differentiate that cartridge from the shorter 45 Schofield, various short British 45s, or the 45 ACP round in the early 1900s.

It even caught on with some ammo manufacturers.

[glowe]

Originally Posted by Engine49guy

. . . Customer: Sir I want a "Masterpiece" revolver in 38 special....
Shop : We have a 4" Combat Masterpiece and a 6" for target shooting...which one ?
Customer: I want the target Masterpiece.

. . . but the Combat Masterpiece had target sights as well, so it would have been a Combat Target Masterpiece?????

[DWalt]

"In the 1800s, the Frankford Arsenal was basically labeling the two 45 cartridges the same, Colt Revolver, Cal; .45, or Revolver Ball Cartridges, Calibre, .45."

Frankford Arsenal made the .45 Colt length cartridge only in 1873 and part of 1874 with a copper case and inside (Benet Cup) priming. In 1874, Frankford Arsenal production was changed to the shorter .45 Schofield/.45 S&W version (so as to fit both Colt and S&W service revolvers), which continued in various forms (inside and Boxer primed, copper and brass cased) until early 1909. Frankford then produced the Model 1909 cartridge for the Colt New Service revolver, which was just the original .45 Colt cartridge with a larger diameter rim. So, except for the 1874 transition period, Frankford did not produce both .45 cartridge sizes simultaneously. And there could be no confusion regarding the Frankford product, as there was only one size. But of course the commercial ammunition manufacturers did produce both lengths simultaneously which probably did result in some confusion. The late 19th Century UMC ammunition catalogs clearly distinguished the two lengths as ".45 S&W" and ".45 Colt's," not .45 Short Colt and .45 Long Colt.

[Engine49guy]

Originally Posted by glowe

. . . but the Combat Masterpiece had target sights as well, so it would have been a Combat Target Masterpiece?????

Dont forget that S&W was marketing 2 different versions of the 6" K38 Masterpiece in 1950 as well with the wider rib heavier barrel profile version dubbed the "Heavy Masterpiece".....

Then there was the 4" version of the wide rib K38 ....would that be a "Heavy Combat Masterpiece" ?
Not to be confused with the 4" Model 14-2 Heavy barrel .

...And what about the 5" narrow rib and wide rib versions ?

[Xfuzz]

Thread needs a pic.
1957 Pre 14 K38 with Lewis holster.
Smith is 95%+

[Engine49guy]

Here is a picture showing the different rear site scallops,
The style thats correct for your 1950(ish) K38 is the 3rd from the left,
Disregard the white outline blade and focus on the smaller scallop cut compared to the later ones on either side .

[JP@AK]

This thread has developed two distinctly different, well, "threads." One has to do with the question about a replacement rear sight and the other with the question of nomenclature.

I've carefully read through the answers given on the sight question and have nothing to add.

But here's my two cents on the nomenclature issue.
There can be no question as to what the factory always called the K-38. Leaving aside for the moment the brief period when they were making a barrel weight distinction, the gun's official name was always "K-38 Masterpiece" which was further identified as a "target revolver." (Just look at how these words appear on the gold boxes.)
As near as I can tell, the confusion arose with the Standard Catalog, which is not a S&W production. It was written by two very knowledgeable guys. But they are no more infallible than any of the rest of us. They made mistakes. One of those mistakes was identifying the K-38 by a name the factory never used: K-38 Target Masterpiece. Since so many people come to the collection fraternity and cut their collecting teeth on that excellent resource, the mistake caught on and has since been repeated over and over and over. Unfortunately it is simply incorrect. I truly hope if there is ever a 4th Edition (one is rumored), Jim and Richard will correct this mistake and start bringing an end to the confusion.
S&W's name for the K-38 (both before and after the advent of model numbers) was and is, K-38 Masterpiece. Period.

[JP@AK]

And yes. We need more pictures. So here are two.

[JP@AK]

I need to dig out one of my gold boxes and take a picture of it. But notice the revolver's name on the parts list inside the box in this picture of a Model 14-2.

[BigBill]

My s&w k22 box says masterpiece only were there k22 masterpiece target revolvers too with the partridge front sight blade?
Does the partridge front sight on any revolver k or N make it a target revolver?

Sorry I'm asking about what labels the revolver a target revolver if we don't have the box or proof if the revolver isn't marked?

[JP@AK]

Originally Posted by BigBill

My s&w k22 box says masterpiece only were there k22 masterpiece target revolvers too with the partridge front sight blade?
Does the partridge front sight on any revolver k or N make it a target revolver?
Sorry I'm asking about what labels the revolver a target revolver if we don't have the box or proof if the revolver isn't marked?

Bill
I'm going to assume you rec'd a satisfactory answer to this in the other thread you created asking the same question.
I'm writing here to clarify something for my own head.
This part:

My s&w k22 box says masterpiece only

Is it correct for me to assume you are talking about the blue box? If so, we would expect it to say only K-22 Masterpiece. On the gold boxes that were phased out during the 1950s, it said K-22 Masterpiece on the end, just like on the blue box. But on the side, it said K-22 Masterpiece Target Revolver. Nothing really changed, just the blue boxes were a lot less fancy with less stuff written on them. The gold boxes had all kinds of selling points listed on the top. The blue boxes were much more "plain Jane."
I hope this helps.

[Engine49guy]

Originally Posted by JP@AK

.....
S&W's name for the K-38 (both before and after the advent of model numbers) was and is, K-38 Masterpiece. Period.

Perhaps adding "Six inch" to the statement so it reads :

S&W's name for the "Six inch" K-38 (both before and after the advent of model numbers) was and is, K-38 Masterpiece. Period.

The K-38 was available in 2", 4", 5", 6" and 8 3/8" barrel lengths at one time or another
(have also seen one factory made 3" K-38 Pinto )

As mentioned there was a brief period where the 6" wider rib K-38 was identified as the "K-38 Heavy Masterpiece" to help distinguish it from the older tapered barrel 6" K-38 Masterpiece (both were available in the 1950 AMC ) although this burgundy box does not have "Target revolver" printed on the label.

[BigBill]

Originally Posted by JP@AK

Bill
I'm going to assume you rec'd a satisfactory answer to this in the other thread you created asking the same question.
I'm writing here to clarify something for my own head.
This part:

Is it correct for me to assume you are talking about the blue box? If so, we would expect it to say only K-22 Masterpiece. On the gold boxes that were phased out during the 1950s, it said K-22 Masterpiece on the end, just like on the blue box. But on the side, it said K-22 Masterpiece Target Revolver. Nothing really changed, just the blue boxes were a lot less fancy with less stuff written on them. The gold boxes had all kinds of selling points listed on the top. The blue boxes were much more "plain Jane."
I hope this helps.

I dug out my s&w k22 (1948) masterpiece so it says on the end of the gold box today. On the side like you say it's marked master piece target.