Another referred me to this forum to seek your expert advice. This is my first attempt to post pictures. I'll try to follow his instructions.

Five screw revolver with a pinned barrel, and lanyard ring for use by military and police. The numerous British proof marks point to Canada or service with the embattled United Kingdom against Nazi Germany. Forum says serial number dates it to being shipped in late 1944. The serial numbers frame, cylinder, and barrel match. This one has the additional screw in front of trigger guard and boasts a six shot fluted cylinder having beveled front edges and proof markings on each chamber, and a serrated trigger. This double/single action .38 S&W revolver barrel swaggers a British proof mark “3.5 TON.” The frame SN 9671xx is next to what appears to be a US flaming bomb proof mark. The side is emblazoned with the S&W Trade Mark Reg. U.S. PAT. OFF. MADE IN U.S.A. Barrel left side SMITH & WESSON and barrel right side "3.5 TON .38 S. & W. CTG." The diamond-checkered walnut grips are in excellent condition, and one of the things I personally like about these older S&W is their smaller grips and outstanding handling. Mechanically the revolver is in excellent condition with a pretty tight lock up. The barrel has a ramp front sight on the 3.5" barrel, a bit of holster wear at the muzzle, and a fixed rear sight. I am request history of service & value in order to be accurate and neither ask too little or too much in pricing it. Thank you for sharing your insights, opinions, and recommendations. Larry

The 1944 date is off if the serial you gave is accurate. They started using a V prefix in 1942 when they ran up to 999,999 without a letter prefix. The serial you gave would likely be from 1941. Might you have neglected to mention a V prefix?

It should not have a ramp site. It should be rounded. And the barrel should be 5" not 3.5". Many of these were modified after the war and it sounds like yours was one of them. Probably also reamed for the incorrect 38 Special ammo. Checkered stocks would also not be original. Value on these is low unless pristine and in 100% original condition. I think $250 or so on what you describe and a collector would not be interested in a modified gun.

It will shoot 38 S&W ammo but that caliber is pricey and hard to find. If reamed 38 Specials will shoot but all is not well as cases will bulge or split.

This is what it should look like.

__________________
No life story has happy end.

You should be able to view Photo Forum file here. Thank you for looking and helping me think through condition and value for selling this S&W.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6oxe9tzus...nAgReSdwa?dl=0

You have a highly modified and non-original .38/200 British service revolver which was shipped ca. April 1942. If marked as .38 S&W, it was a British service revolver, usually called a .38/200. Yours is what is called a chopped and bored pre-Victory, as the serial number does not have a V prefix. That started a little later in 1942.

When the British declared these as surplus after WWII (that's when all of the proof marks you see were applied), literally boatloads of them were imported into the US by numerous surplus arms dealers and importers in the 1950s and 1960s. To make them more attractive to US buyers, the importers frequently had the barrels cut shorter (most originals had 5" barrels), bored out the chambers to accept .38 Special ammunition, re-blued or nickel-plated them, and frequently added cheap plastic grips (any combination). Yours fits that description. While not plastic, the grips are replacements, and not of military style. They sold for prices in the $25-$35 range back then. At present, gun show prices are usually in the $200-250 area. They have no collector value, as there is virtually nothing original about them. Their only value is as a cheap utility shooter or throwaway gun. You should check to see if .38 Special cartridges will fit, and there is a high probability of that. If not, you must use .38 S&W cartridges, which are difficult to find and somewhat expensive. It should be safe to shoot, but that's about the extent of what good can be said about it.

No I did not neglect to mention a "V" prefix.

The bore slugs 38 S&W. Cylinder will chamber .38 S&W as well as .38 special, but not .357 Magnum. My gunsmith says plenty of the old Victory models would chamber .38 special and some .357 Magnum. Try the cylinder of yours with a .357 Magnum and check chambering, but of course don't fire it. I conclude that the chamber size is not a definitive way to evaluate if a gun has been modified. Does that make sense?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6oxe9tzus...nAgReSdwa?dl=0

As you can see in the photo dropbox link there is no "V" prefix at either of the 3 places where the SN is located. My gunsmith friend who is VERY familiar with militaria ARGUES that the barrel has not been shortened, is original as is the front sight, and it has not been refinished. It is original. Maybe someone on the forum will think it's commercial or some other model with the 3.5" barrel.

Thanks a million for the 1941 dating info, that helps. Best, Larry

News for you. Your gunsmith knows nothing about these revolvers.

^^^^This^^^^

Dos ditto's.....

dlc

Well, if your gunsmith has assured you it is original and correct then why did you bother to ask about it here?

Uh...good luck.

__________________
No life story has happy end.

Tell your gunsmith to purchase the "Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson" 3rd Edition, then look up the revolver. Then apologize to you for giving you incorrect information.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Larry,

Do the following:

1. Tell you gunsmith that you agree with his assessment. It is a very rare factory variation unknown to most collectors.

2. Ask him how much he will give you for it.

Bob

Maybe the gunsmith is the one who sold it to him. A plausible reason for the blatant misinformation.

That is not a S&W front sight or crown. I have no doubt it has been sawn off and you describe a reamed cylinder. Grips are replaced for the surplus market.
As said, if the "gunsmith" sold it to you as an original service revolver, he is a fraud. If he is advising you, he is just wrong.

Patriotsc: If you spend much time here, you will soon learn the tell tale areas to look for to tell if a gun has been refinished. Sometimes it is difficult to tell with pictures, so there are things to look for that are indicators that pictures show. One of these that I look for first in pre war revolvers is the pin that protrudes on the left side of the frame just above the stocks and below and behind the cylinder release. It should be rounded. If it is flat, it is because it was polished flat before the blueing process. Yours is flat. The next place to look is the fit of the sideplate and sideplate screws. Is the sideplate seam visible, and rounded? Are the screws holes sharp or rounded or dished? The seam should be almost invisible, some reblues show really rounded edges of the sideplate. Your sideplate does not seem to fit well, so I wonder if it is the original sideplate. The seams are not too rounded and the screw holes appear a bit more rounded than usual, but not bad.

As above from very knowledgeable Smith folks, the front sight has been changed and these guns were issued with a 5 inch barrel.

Its pretty clear that your gun has been altered and indicates to me that is has been reblued. It may still be a fine shooter, but it is not original.

Most of these things I have learned here, even though I have used Smith handguns for over 45 years. So hang around here and you will learn a lot.

__________________
Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

As other have told you, this gun has been highly modified. It is not even close to its original configuration or condition. Either your so-called "very familiar" with military guns friend is a liar or he just doesn't know what the heck he is talking about (I suspect the latter).
As for this:
Well, of course it won't chamber the Magnum. The cylinder is too short for that cartridge. And all of the cylinders on all of the BSRs were. Period.
In fact, the case length of the .357 Magnum, when the cartridge was invented in 1935, was made longer specifically for the purpose of keeping it from being chambered in .38 Special revolvers.

This is just total nonsense. The first part is true - if the gun was made for American service, it was chambered for the .38 Special. But yours was not. It was made for UK service and was not chambered for the .38 Special until it was surplussed off after the war. Then it was reamed out.
But the second part of the statement is totally untrue. The guy just does not know his stuff!

And all it takes is one glance at the barrel and front sight to see that neither of them is original. There is absolutely no question about that.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

There is much to be learned. As they came from the S&W factory, .38/200 BSRs were chambered only in .38 S&W. It is impossible to chamber a .38 S&W Special cartridge in a .38 S&W chamber. There were also Victory model revolvers made for U. S. service, but those were chambered in .38 S&W Special. While it's not impossible to find such a revolver having sloppy chambers that may allow chambering of a .38 S&W cartridge, 99+% of the time it is not possible to chamber a .38 S&W cartridge in a .38 S&W Special chamber either. As stated, when these old British war horses were imported in the 1950s and 60s, they were not too salable in the US in .38 S&W. Therefore, the importers reamed out and deepened the chambers so that .38 S&W Special cartridges would fit. Not an ideal way to do it, but it worked. I doubt you would ever find an original Victory model which would chamber a .357 Magnum cartridge, and it would be dangerous to fire a .357 Magnum cartridge in one, even if it did fit. The grips on yours are clearly replacements, typical of conversions that were done in England. I have seen many of the British-modified revolvers with similar grips. The original revolver, at that time, would likely have been shipped with smooth wooden grips, not checkered at all. It is evident that your gunsmith is unaware of any of this information about barrel length, re-bluing, chambering, sights, and grips. In short, he just does not know anything about these revolvers, and his opinions have no credence whatsoever. I hope you didn't pay much for your revolver as a result of being mislead as to what you were really buying. That's the result of not doing your own research before pulling out your wallet. It's happened to all of us..

When you shoot a 38 Special in a 38 S&W chamber that had been reamed out it will "bulge" out in the part of the chamber that is still original 38 S&W, as it is about .005" larger. See attached photo for the normal results. This was from a light target load, a full power load will often get stuck and have to be tapped out with a rod.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Thanks for posting the picture, HRichard. Good illustration!

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Wasting your time. He is not here and when he was he wasn't listening. Didn't like what he was being told so he will ignore it.

I love folks who ask a question then don't believe the answer or think they know better. Again, why ask in the first place?

__________________
No life story has happy end.

I asked forum first and gunsmith later. Then another forum. Gunsmith doesn't have "a dog in this fight." He didn't sell it to me. I inherited it and he was just trying to be helpful.

Please Saxon, and everyone else, don't take offense at Smithy's views. He knows a lot, but you guys have made some very valid and convincing points. Thank you for your patience with a newcomer.

Love SW and I'm enjoying learning here. Thank you. Sincerely, patriotsc

You came to the right place and with an open mind....Welcome

__________________
Paul
S&WCA #2726