Hey guys!
I'm trying to get some kind of estimate of production date and any other info I can get on this 38 SPL. I want to leave it in its current condition before I go cleaning it up or anything. From the research I have done, it appears to be a pretty early model judging by the features and the serial number - but I'm no expert so I'm bringing it to you guys

Following the stickied guidlines, here's what I have:

1. TYPE
Hand-Ejector



2. Serial Number
197168

On butt:


Under barrel:


3. CTG or Caliber
38 S&W Special CTG



4. Barrel length
4" barrel (no measuring tape pictured, but you guys can tell)



5. Sights
Fixed sights



That should be all you need, but a few extras

Strain Screw



5 Screw



I guess that's it? Any info you guys can provide would be much appreciated!

I THINK this is a M&P model of 1905 1st change com about 1908 or 1909. Expect an expert to chime in soon. By the way....great post!

Thanks!

BTW, in case it isn't legible in the photo, the last patent date stamped on the barrel is SEP.14.09

I have the same pistol in .32 long i am trying to get help identifying. Looks exactly like yours and has the same last patent date on the barrel.

I like it. Shows it's age gracefully and is not something too nice to be shooting often. I have a 5" square butt version from the same time period and a 4" 32-20 SB as well. They are both good shooters , though the sights are demanding to use. Does anyone know exactly when S&W changed the sight profile on these early M&Ps?



Gun on the left is pre WWI, on the right is a 20's revolver with the one line "Made in USA". Both are 5 " SB 38 Special M&Ps. I'm curious as to exactly when the engineering change was made.

John

That serial number dates the gun to about 1912-1913. If you call it a .38 Military & Police, round butt variety, you can dance safely around a question of terminology. The serial number is assigned to the Model of 1905/Third Change by many collectors following classification principles laid down decades ago. But the company advertising and catalogs distinguished between the round butt Model of 1902 and the square butt model of 1905 for about a decade after the square butt was introduced, so there is an unresolved (or at least inconsistently resolved) naming situation here.

Those are the proper stocks for the era; you might find a serial number on the inner surface of the right cheek piece. If it is in pencil and hard to read, rock it back and forth under a bright light so the sparkle effect of the graphite will paint the number on your eyes.

Go ahead and clean it up, and there is no reason not to shoot it if the action is tight and properly timed. Probably a good idea to use softer loads in these old-timers. I shoot only 148 gr wadcutter target rounds in my .38s from the 'aughts, 'teens and '20s. The somewhat hotter standard stuff won't necessarily blow them up, but why stress an older gun any more than you need to? S&W didn't introduce a heat treatment that hardened the cylinder steel until a few years after this one was built.

__________________
David Wilson

Thanks so much for the input!

Also, what would you guys pay for one of these as-is?

I'd say maybe $350-400 for that one because of the less commonly seen round butt on guns of this date. A square butt specimen that is otherwise comparable I'd value at $300 or so. But a lot will depend on geography and how many collectors of older models there are in the immediate vicinity. Some places you might be able to get something like that for $250, in others you might have to go over $400. You never know.

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David Wilson

1913 is a good dating. Some might call it a Model of 1902, as it has a round butt, instead of the same gun with a square butt, which was called the Model of 1905. All that confusion ended before WWI, and S&W just began calling them all the Military and Police Model, either round or square butts. Basically the same revolver was also made in the .32-20 caliber, but it was serial numbered in a separate series. As stated, it's perfectly safe to shoot these, but only with standard velocity ammunition, the wadcutter target loads being the easiest on them. Virtually any of these revolvers in operable condition and original, as this one appears to be, will today bring at least $300 in a private sale.