M1917 no cylinder gap to bbl. ??

charley co.

charley co.

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I have a M1917 45acp rev. with Brazil crest, I've posted a few questions about this gun on this site. Took it to the range to shoot it and got bad surprise. After just about one cylinder full the cylinder face sticks against the bbl. and won't rotate. There isn't enough (or any) gap there and just the carbon deposit from firing hangs the cyl. up. I've added pics. (poor, sorry) to show the wear on the cyl. face from rubbing on the bbl. This gun has been parkarized and the cyl. # doesn't match although the yoke and sideplate and everything else matches. What can I do to create just a little gap? I tried putting a tiny wire 'washer' between the yoke and cyl. and tho that does give a wee gap, the trigger won't rebound, the cyl. bolt won't snap into the cyl. cut outs. Can I try to emery a bit off the bbl.???
 

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charley,

Since the cylinder has been changed, it is indeed possible that the head space needs adjustment. But I'm guessing that the end of the barrel needs dressing to create the correct cylinder/barrel gap. I suppose you might be able to do that with the correct file or two, but it requires keeping the surface of the end of the barrel exactly square and parallel with the cylinder face. It would require a steady hand and lots of patience, a file pass and a check with a feeler gauge of a thickness probably in the middle of the acceptable range of tolerance. Maybe a trip to a trustworthy gunsmith who knows S&W revolvers? I know that will cost a bit of money, but if the old gun is otherwise in good shape, it will result in a good shooter! Good luck.
 
I wouldn't take a file to it.You might do well,you might not too.
The problem is probably addressed above with shimming.
If this were a Colt SAA,the issue would be addressed with a device that inserts into the muzzle,to which a back cutter is attached after that(not unlike a faucet seat cutter),and material is evenly taken off.
I don't know if this method is also used on double action revolvers.
 
Problem is, any kind of 'shim' that moves the cyl. back just a hair causes the trigger to stick back, that wee movement is enough that the cyl. bolt (the thing, part of the trigger, that comes up from the bottom and locks in the cylinders recesses?) won't snap into place??
 
Unfortunately the problem could be one of several things or a combination of things.

If I tell you something you already know, please forgive me.

Can you move your cylinder forward and backward when it is closed? If so, you have enshake. That you can fix with an "end shake washer" that you can get from Brownells or I can mail you one or two. You need to test this by taking out the wire washer you put in.

The second cause of this could be a bent yoke. The yoke barrel is the long hollow piece that the cylinder rides on. To work smoothly the yoke has to be centered on the opening in the breech face. There is a tool that is used to determine whether or not the yoke is centered on the breech face.

A possible third cause can be that the ejector rod is out of alignment. Open the cylinder and spin it. Look for wobble in the ejector rod.

This is really a good gunsmith's problem. Don't use emery paper on the breech face. The breech face has to be kept as square as possible to the cylinder.

Also sent you a PM. We need to talk if it is convenient for you. PM me your phone number and a convenient time and we'll set something up.
 
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dumb dumb dumb

How embarrassing to admit yo-yo-ness.
The problem seem to have been a missing part. I was comparing this 1917 to my British marked HE2 in .455, they are virtually identical and I noticed something in the .455, on the bottom of the yoke there is a hole in which is a spring and plunger, so I looked at the 1917 and there it was, but no plunger. The hole was filled with grease and unnoticeable if not expected. I cleaned it out and found the spring in there, packed with thick grease. I found an old pin in my 'small parts box', cut it to fit, put it in,assembled the gun, and no more problem! I fired 6 six round moon clips of 200gr. semi-wadcutter cast bullets and no sticking or dragging, it just worked. Such a little part that makes the difference. I guess that just holds everything in alignment. Glad I didn't do a dumb thing!
To TENNEXPLORER: There is some what you call "end shake", it might benefit from a washer now that it's aligned.
Ah Geeze. I need a wet noodle beating!!!!
 
Charley,

Bravo for your investigation. The spring and plunger is the cylinder hold open detent. It holds the cyl open for loading and unloading so it doesn't fall closed on your fingers if the gun tilts a bit. It's a piece of old world craftsmanship panache no longer seen on any Smith hand ejectors since WW II. I have installed them on newer revolvers because they are so useful and cool.

The detent pin is often lost because as you indicated, some don't know about it and are not expecting it to be launched across the room when the yoke is removed on some of those pre war HEs.

In your case it has helped align your yoke fore and aft, and mitigate cyl/yoke end shake, although not its intended purpose. I wonder if your yoke has some end shake, i.e., fore and aft movement instead of the cyl?

Is the yoke screw loose?

Has one of the other sideplate screws been substituted used for the yoke screw (which is a fitted screw) by mix-up?

Pull the yoke and notice the groove in the end of its 'hinge pin'. The tip of the yoke screw should fit that groove well to prevent yoke end shake. Check it for end shake w/o the detent pin in place. New HEs since 1988 have the new style yoke retention screw with spring and plunger in the tip of it, to avoid the hand fitting process.

If you don't find any of those issues and it shoots well, no lead spitting, etc., then I wouldn't worry about it.

Cyl hold open detent. Notice groove in rear end of the yoke hinge pin for the yoke screw:

YokeDetentClose-up-.jpg
 
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