factory chrome finish Revolvers pre 1960

There is little information available on a limited run of factory high polished chrome finish revolvers of M&P Model of 1905, 4th change series with original factory chrome finish .

I have researched enough to find a small batch of these revolvers with the CHROME finish in the 600000 serial number range. I am looking to verify and positively identify all factory "high polished chrome finished" revolvers. I don't need info on anything that may have been re-finished in chrome at some later date. I DO NOT NEED INFORMATION ON NICKEL, NOR HARD-CHROME, NOR STAINLESS nor any thing other than factory original Chrome finish.

I do not need pricing information.

I need to verify approximately how many were manufactured by S&W and if there were CHROME finishes on any other revolvers pre 1960 and if so, as much factual data as you have that can be referenced, in print, on factory CHROME finished revolvers.

Input from collectors who have personal knowledge and first hand, document-able, information. e.g. how many chrome revolvers, in what models manufactured and when those models were manufactured will be very much appreciated.

The type I know of are clearly a pre-war configuration and serial number range but in post-war, correctly numbered and labeled box as I have been informed form reliable sources.

I need factual data and source of the data submitted for reply that I may reference the source, in print.

Also, what serial number ranges other pre-war or early post-war CHROME M&P's have been found.

Please email me through the email link in my information page here on the forum which goes directly to my personal email with the word "CHROME" in the subject bar of the email.

Do not send PM's through the forum as the PM box is stuffed. Please only email responses.

For all you naysayers, before you jump to the wrong conclusion and post a multitude of irrelevant responses and / or questions ... I am not concerned with Nickel or Blue finished models, nor pintos, nor stainless steel, nor anything that was subsequently "hard-chromed".

I seek verifiable data, only, on ORIGINAL S&W Factory, high polished CHROME finished revolvers prior to 1960. Thanking you all, in advance.

Happy Thanksgiving to all and best regards, Sal

Sal, Don Mundell had a thread going last week about chrome guns.

Chad Gripp

News to me. Never heard of any revolvers chromed by S&W. I always heard that that chrome was considered a cheap, inferior finish to nickel so I am surprised to hear that S&W ever used it. I'm sure there are several guys around here who have some knowledge on this topic.

At the risk of being one of the responses you don't need, have you asked Roy about this? He would likely be the best single source. Jim Supica may also have data.

Sal
I wrote about an invoice I came across while helping Roy with factory letters. Here it is http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/452707-chrome-victory.html

Don

Sal, I checked the K frame SWCA database and there are no listed chrome M&Ps in the 600,000 series. All listed are blue except three nickel examples.

I am curious as to what the difference is between chrome and hard chrome? All chrome is pretty hard to me?

Check with Chad. He has a post in Don's other thread on the subject.
"Don, I have a chrome M&P from a half dozen or so that we're produced in the 1930's. That's as close as I can get.....
Chad Gripp"

The 600,000 range was manufactured in the 1930s.

glowe said:

I am curious as to what the difference is between chrome and hard chrome? All chrome is pretty hard to me?

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glowe,

The difference between "Hard Chrome" and "Chrome" as a strictly decorative finish, is that "Hard" plating, whether Chromium, Nickel, or other metal is plated directly onto the base metal rather than having an "Under-strike" or underlayment of other metals. This is "Decorative" plating and is not good in applications where there are dynamic loads imposed on the plated finish.

High quality "Triple Plate" (Bumper Chrome) typically uses a Copper under-strike on the steel, followed by Nickel, and finally the Chrome over that. This has a tendency to peel if damaged.

Contrary to popular belief S&W plating has always been "Hard"! They have never used a Copper and/or Nickel understrike. Colt did farm out its' Nickel plating to a contractor for a few years, 1970s I believe, which used a Copper understrike. They ended up having to re-finish a high percentage of these post-sale due to peeling issues.

Alk8944 said:

. . . Contrary to popular belief S&W plating has always been "Hard"! They have never used a Copper and/or Nickel understrike . . .

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Thanks for that. Your answer is why I asked the question, since I thought S&W offered only hard chrome finishes.

I worked in the metal plating industry as a tech service rep for a company which made plating chemicals many years ago, and have seen a lot of plating shops doing both decorative and hard chrome plating. Hard chrome is just that - chrome plated directly on a steel surface for engineering purposes. It can be of various thicknesses, and its function is to provide wear resistance, as chromium is very hard. For example, piston rings, crankshaft journals, etc., even rifle bores. It is also used for building up worn parts. And then, there is decorative chrome plating. For decorative plating, the steel (or whatever) substrate is plated with copper, then nickel, then chrome. The copper and nickel underplating provide corrosion protection and also a cushioning against thermal expansion and contraction. The chrome is plated in an extremely thin layer, often called "flash" chrome plating, unlike hard chrome plating which is far heavier. Modern decorative chrome plating is more resistant to corrosion and peeling than it was back in the old days, but it does not provide wear resistance, as hard chrome plating does.

S42N8 said:

At the risk of being one of the responses you don't need, have you asked Roy about this? He would likely be the best single source. Jim Supica may also have data.

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After I found the invoice I referenced I asked Roy about it. He said that they had plated a bunch. He also said that the SWCA auctioned off a number of them at one of the annuals.

Club Gun Fan said:

Sal
I wrote about an invoice I came across while helping Roy with factory letters. Here it is http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/452707-chrome-victory.html

Don

Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Any production numbers on the Chrome M&Ps other than Victory models ? Thank you. Sal

glowe said:

Sal, I checked the K frame SWCA database and there are no listed chrome M&Ps in the 600,000 series. All listed are blue except three nickel examples.

I am curious as to what the difference is between chrome and hard chrome? All chrome is pretty hard to me?

Check with Chad. He has a post in Don's other thread on the subject.
"Don, I have a chrome M&P from a half dozen or so that we're produced in the 1930's. That's as close as I can get.....
Chad Gripp"

The 600,000 range was manufactured in the 1930s.

Click to expand...

Gary, if you mean our forum database, it is nowhere near conclusive nor complete. The entries in our database are those volunteered by members and likely only represent a small section of the S&W revolvers that are out there. Thanks for guiding me to that other post. Sal

model3sw said:

Gary, if you mean our forum database, it is nowhere near conclusive nor complete. The entries in our database are those volunteered by members and likely only represent a small section of the S&W revolvers that are out there. Thanks for guiding me to that other post. Sal

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I understand that, BUT, there is a propensity for members/collectors to list unusual examples over standard ones in the SWCA database and the complete absence of a particular configuration means it is rare for me. One can make the argument that nickel guns of that era are very uncommon and that chrome examples are rare, but of course, you cannot get numbers produced out of that database.

This is a very educational spot. I think Im getting this straight.
1. chrome plating 2 types
A. "Hard", no substrate, good for wear, industrial
B. "Decorative", "Bumper" or "FLASH", over substrate, thin coat, peels.
2. nickel plating 2 types
A. "Hard", no substrate, S&W method
B. "Decorative" over substrate, Colt used in the 1970s, bad results
Have I gotten the main points?
Now the 2nd question. How do you ascertain which type you are looking at? I have read S&W original nickel has a slight yellow tint? Do you look for evidence of a substrate? Yea, or the "N" on the flats or cyl.

I do not believe that S&Ws used any substrates with nickel plating. I have never seen any copper, etc. under flaking nickel on older guns. Popular opinion is that nickel is silver in color, but it does normally get a bit yellow as it tarnishes.

Don't have much to add to this informative thread but to respond to gmborkovic above ^^^ regarding "yellowish" nickel. I only have four nickel guns with original S&W plating. They are: Pre Md 27, Md 10, Md 19 and Md 59 and all of them are nearly new in condition. And all of them do indeed have a very slight yellowish cast that I think is very appealing and rich looking. The newest one (Md 59 ca 1978) has the least yellowish caste.

Question Answered, thanks to the membership.

Answer sent to me from fellow member. Attached it the printed page from email of a question to Roy from Mike Salon, dated 2003 (from the old S&WCA forum). Thanks to the sender ... (who asked to remain anonymous). See attached below and transcribes as:

Roy Jinks" <willow@~
Date: Fri Aug 1, 2003 8:00 am
Subject: Re: S&W Model 1905 Chrome Finish
Mike, the chrome finish was experiment as nickel
was getting hard to obtain
and the factory was looking for a substitute. The
problem is that chrome had
a peeling problem when it was not applied correct
and when the gun was shot
and the chrome cracked. These few chrome plated
guns were made
experimentally and controlled closely through the
factory, therefore they
would not have any markings as they would have
been hand carried through the
factory. The "N" for nickel; when used was so that
the finishing department
would know which type offmish the handgun was
to receive. In my opinion
the .38 M&P with the chrome finish are a desirable
collectors item to the
person who collects the.38 M&P series. Your
revolver if I remember the
pictures looked like a great gun. Roy G. Jinks, Historian, Smith & Wesson
----- Original Message -----
From: michael solon <misoll 8202@.
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 31,2003 8:05 PM
Subject: S&W Model 1905 Chrome Finish
> Hello Group,
> I recently received a Factory Letter on my Model 1905, 4th Change.
To my surprise, my "nickel" finish turned out to be a "special chrome plated
finish." This particular revolver was manufactured in 1938 but did not
leave the factory until 1960. According to Jim and Rick, 2d ed, page 103,
"small quantity shipped with chrome finish."
> As a relative novice in collecting S&W's, I have mixed feelings over
these revelations. I know that limited production quantities are usually a
good thing for collectors. However, the fact that the chrome finish was
never adopted raises some questions, particularly from a shooter's point of
view. Was the finish unsatisfactory to produce? Was it not feasible from
a manufacturing standpoint? Was there no market for a chrome finish
revolver?
> I would appreciate your comments on the collectible value of this
chrome revolver and also your speculation or knowledge of why S&W never
produced more of them.
> I also have a question related to markings. Did S&W always mark nickel
guns with an "N"? When I could not find the "N" on this one, I just assumed
it was produced before the mark was used.
> Thanks in advance for your input.
> Mike Solon, 1555

Club Gun Fan said:

After I found the invoice I referenced I asked Roy about it. He said that they had plated a bunch. He also said that the SWCA auctioned off a number of them at one of the annuals.

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Thank you, Don.