.38 Military & Police Model 1905?

Hunter62 · Jan 20, 2016

We have an old Hand Ejector hand gun that we are trying to find out more info on.
Here is what we have...

S# on the butt is 845x85
S# on flat underside of barrel and on cylinder is 845x83

Stamped on barrel...38 S & W Ctg (on either side there are markings...Horn? Cannon?

Patented dates on barrel...last one being Dec 20-14

Barrel length is 5"

Sites are fixed.

Strain screw...yes.

5 screw.

Lanyard swivel w/lanyard loop. (butt s# is next to swivel so we assume that the lanyard was placed by factory.)

On the left side below cylinder release button it is marked
"IA CO SAC O (or C) Any idea what this might mean?

Here are our questions...
Why is the serial # off by 1 number between the butt and the cylinder and barrel.

Gun Values book does not show this weapon marked as 38 S & W Ctg. It only shows them marked as 38 S & W Special Cal.

What would be the markings on the barrel before and after the 38 S & W CTG?

What cartridges will work in this weapon?

Also would like to know date of weapon and approx. value?

The hand grips appear to be maybe bakelight "horn" material. May not be original. Not sure.

Over all condition...There is a lot of pitting but it is still fully functioning.

Can provide pics if needed.

Thanks!!!!

murphydog · Jan 20, 2016

Welcome! You have a .38/200 (.38 S & W chambering) British Service Revolver from about 1941. There is a wealth of information about it here:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/search...cof=FORID:10&ie=UTF-8&q=British+.38/200&sa=Go

To answer some of your specific questions -

The left side frame stamping is from the importer.
Chances are the SN locations all have the same number; they were stamped so deeply that 3, 5 and 8 often look the same.
The little symbols bordering the caliber stamp on the barrel are called "dingbats". Seriously.
Many of these were altered to fire .38 Special by lengthening the charge holes, but the Special case is of smaller diameter and will swell or crack with firing. If a .38 Special fully chambers it has been altered.
The original stocks would have been smooth (more likely) or checkered walnut. The revolvers with altered cylinders often had the stocks changed out also.
An altered gun is worth less than original, so a value estimate and photos would help here.

Hope this is helpful.

Absalom · Jan 20, 2016

To add just a few things:

The gun is a late 1941 "pre-Victory" model and would still have had the checkered wood medallion stocks originally.

The importer mark and the apparent absence of post-war British commercial proofs indicates that, just like another one we just discussed in the Victory database thread, this one was imported after 1968 (the GCA) and not in the 1950s, when the bulk of British Service Models were released from service and sold.

I'm not sure whether the IA stands for Interarms, but the rest indicates Sacramento CA.

PS: Just found a reference claiming IA stands for International Arms. No source given.

DWalt · Jan 20, 2016

Are you sure you are not mistaking a 5 for a 3? Or vice versa? The SN would date original shipment from S&W to about October 1941. It left the factory chambered for the .38 S&W cartridge, as that was the official British military revolver cartridge. Many such revolvers were later imported and re-chambered for .38 S&W Special for US sale. Not good at all for the revolver's value, but .38 Special ammo is much cheaper and more easily found. And you should have no safety problems in firing .38 Special ammunition in it, but you will likely see bulged fired cases. Don't worry about it.

Hunter62 · Jan 20, 2016

Thanks for the help!But we are sure on the numbers. not a miss read...what could this mean???? oh and it has not been re chambered for 38special.

Absalom · Jan 20, 2016

If you're sure on the numbers, maybe the guy at the factory with the stamps had a momentary lapse of attention. I do seem to recall a discussion here sometime ago about another revolver with a small discrepancy in digits. In the pre-computer age, it does not appear outlandish. Or since they are so close together, parts could have been scrambled during assembly (although admittedly I'm not familiar enough with the assembly process to know when exactly the smaller parts were stamped and whether such a mistake was logistically possible).

If your gun has not been converted for .38 Spl., that confims an informal impression of mine that ex-BSR's that were not surplussed and commercial-proofed in the 1950s, but later, were a bit less likely to get that treatment. The original caliber, together with the absent proofmarks, does help its potential interest and value to collectors.

.38 Military & Police Model 1905?

Hunter62

murphydog

Moderator

Absalom

SWCA Member, Absent Comrade

DWalt

Member

Hunter62

Absalom

SWCA Member, Absent Comrade

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