Hi all, I recently found these gorgeous grips on eBay and was hoping that the experts here could educate me a little on them. What I know is that they are K-Frame smooth target grips, with black washers. What I would like to know is their approximate age and if the high-gloss finish on them looks to be original. Also, in the closeup pictures, you can see what appears to be small cracks in the finish. Is that what I am seeing, or is that something unique to rosewood. I thought about refinishing them, but don't want to do it if that will significantly hurt their value. In all honesty, the little cracks look worse in pictures than they do in person. Thanks for any advise and/or information you can share.

I can't tell you anything about the finish, but the smooth Presentation targets were used in the approximate 1967-1980 period. I think the black washers would narrow it down to being from the 1967 to early 1970s period. I also think most Presentations were Goncalo Alves, but I have a pair I think is walnut, at least they look like walnut to me. I'm not very good about identifying different woods. While it might be tempting to refinish the stocks, I think I would try to resist doing anything other than waxing them.

Those are beautiful! I'm no expert, but ... (I see those words here a lot so I thought I would try it out ) ... Rosewood has what they call an open grain, which looks like gaps in the wood. I can't tell from your pics if it is in the wood or the finish. Whatever it is, I'm with DWalt - don't touch those. I don't see how the result could be any better than what you have now. Nice score

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Some collect art; I shoot it!

Thanks guys. I thought that they might be older - looks like I posted this in the wrong forum. :|

Those are beautiful and as mentioned, I wouldn't do anything other than wax them.

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Pass it on.
Mark

Those appear to have the factory lacquer finish on them.Ren wax will dull the gloss on some clear coat finishes, so use caution .Maguiar's Scratch X 20 is what I used on my Rosewood stocks ( with that finish ) to clean and get any imperfections out of the finish.Most of the Rosewood stocks came with a buffed wax finish that most prefer.

Agree with Dwalt they are from 1967 to early 70's era ,
Prior versions had a satin finish where the post 67 versions have the glossy finish and new shallow brass escutcheons.

The rosewood S & W stocks I have seen were more uniform in color, reddish-brown to dark brown, so I would guess these are highly figured Goncalo Alves. Not too shabby in their own right . Enjoy!

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I'm going to go ahead and say they have already been refinished. They aren't cracked. Just open grain. If the original finish was present you would probably see flaking and crazing. Whoever did those got the most out of the wood. They are gorgeous.

DW

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"NUTS"

I was wondering if the factory typically left varnish/lacquer smeared on the medallions without cleaning them up? I am not sure about more recent factory work, but am pretty sure it would not have happened on pre-war stocks.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Love those S&W Presentation grips and I have a similar pair on a S&W Model 18-4 and I think yours are killer.

I see the horizontal cracking that your talking about, noticeable in the 3rd pic down. It almost looks like finish checking, what happens when Nitrocellulose lacquer goes from extreme cold to a warm room. Same thing that happens to the old Fender guitars from the 60's. I'm wondering if someone resprayed them with Nitrocellulose lacquer at some time.

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Get off my lawn!

That's a excellent point. Spraying lacquer over any type of varnish will lead to checkering or even worse, alligatoring as the lacquer acts like a paint remover and actually lifts the old finish.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

If lacquer were applied over varnish it would cause the new finish to wrinkle. Whats going on here is nothing more than grain relief. I've done numerous refinishes on this type of wood and I always ask the client if they want open or closed grain. Closing the grain requires a sealer be applied and that can affect natural wood color. I'm guessing the finish on the OPs stocks was sprayed on. Just my nickles worth.

DW

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"NUTS"

Well, the stocks are sitting in a pan of acetone, as I type this. No going back now. I'll post pictures when I'm done (in a few days). Thanks for all of the feedback.

I think they will come out way better for you. I've found acetone to do wonders to old finishes I dislike.

Until you use it on a set of stocks from the early 50's with the plastic medallions. Someone here several years ago had the medallions in his stocks eaten by acetone.

Mineral spirits does a good job of taking the oil out of the wood, but won't dissolve the finish - or medallions.

Mark

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S&W Forum Member #721

Well, they were beautiful as they were. I hope you can improve on them.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I look forward to seeing your results. They are really nice as they were!

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Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

Yeah, the wood is very nice, but the finish was definitely cracking. Perhaps this picture shows the condition better. The vertical lines are not wood grain.

The Factory definitely left varnish on the medallions.
Some more than others.
It goes well back into the Diamond Target grips, including Cokes.
Pics attached of an original finish Coke. Note the varnish at 2 and 10 o'clock.
If you have a steady hand, much of it can be "pushed" off with a toothpick, as in the second pic.

The pre-war finish was typically a wax/oil combination that was easier to wipe off the medallions.

Attached Images

	23a.jpg (107.3 KB, 84 views)
	024.jpg (106.6 KB, 70 views)

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Forgot to say-

The OP's grips are from the very late blue washer period.

The finish from that period often crazes, especially on Rosewood, which is what those are.

They did have the original finish, IMO.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I have a set of rosewood someone coated with lacquer or varnish. I knocked the finish off with .0000 steel wool then buffed them with Ren Wax several times and they came out perfect like new!! the original finish was under what ever they had put on them. They are gorgeous now......................................M*

Well, I’m done refinishing the grips, for now. While I think that they look good. They don’t look as good, to me, as they did before I started (with the exception that the crazing is now gone). I might strip them again and go with a lacquer finish, in the future. The current finish is a result of 5 coats of Minwax Tung Oil Finish (which is more of a varnish than a true Tung oil), followed by 2 coats of Minwax Paste Finishing Wax. I’ve used these products, in the past, with good results.

As promised, here are the after pictures (for now).

I find those much improved personally.

I stand corrected...with the new finish these definitely appear to be rosewood.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I'm not a glossy kind of guy. I like them now.

I much prefer the soft gloss of your refinish. As you bought them, they appeared a little plastic for me. Don't give up and re-strip them yet. The old rule of thumb for putting an oil finish on furniture is once an hour for a day, once a day for a week, once a month for a year, then once a year thereafter. As the oil catalyzes and builds, a soft deep gloss will appear. It's a lot of work, but I love the look. This applies both to tung oil and boiled linseed oil. Tung oil will not darken the wood as much as BLO. I prefer it for that and its faster curing. I dilute pure tung oil 50% with mineral spirits for application. If you want a faster, more water resistant tung oil based finish, try Waterlox, a varnish & tung oil mix. It comes in gloss and semigloss, wipes on, covers in 2-3 coats, and rubs out very nicely with 0000 steel wool and paste wax.

If they were mine I would let them dry real good then buff them about 2 or 3 times with REN-WAX. They would look better......................M*

The more coats of tung oil you add the better they will look.Let them cure a few weeks before waxing

These are Goncalo Alves same tree family as Rosewood. Oily woods are hard to get a finish to stick to and shine but it can be done.
These were done in Tru-Oil. The client wanted glossy so he got glossy.

DW

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"NUTS"

If you look at both of these pictures I believe I have proved my point that it was grain relieve and not cracking of the finish. All those lines are still in the same place. Filling them is not easy.

Regards, DW

Attached Images

	crazing 2.jpg (240.5 KB, 48 views)
	crazing.jpg (258.0 KB, 50 views)

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"NUTS"

Thanks. Unfortunately, Minwax Tung Oil Finish is not actually Tung Oil. It's pretty misleading product labeling, as it is actually more of a varnish. And they already have two coats of wax on them, so another coat is not an option at this point.

Those sure are glossy. Very well done, Sir.

Look again. The wood grain in those pictures runs horizontally. In the before picture, there are many fine vertical lines in the finish that handejector correctly identified as crazing.

I repair a lot of Rosewood Tools. Rosewood was not meant to have a finish on it. It is a very waxy wood and wax will keep it looking good. Varnish and other finishes do not respond very well with wax.
Your grips look GREAT in ROSEWOOD.

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Be Safe & Shoot Straight

To be perfectly honest I was paying attention to the vertical lines and that's what my remarks were intended to. I thought I was being clear with my remarks as to grain lines.

I think you did an excellent job in putting a grade A finish on them. You don't have to strip them to continue finishing them. Just wipe then down with mineral spirits and go for it.

DW

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"NUTS"

I don't know what you think you're seeing in the after picture, because the vertical lines are gone. Perhaps you will see the difference in these close-up pictures.

Before:


After:

This is a first for me I like them both ways.
I think the left panel looks markedly better now BTW.

I think you should get that other set also....they looked pretty incredible

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Thanks for blowing the picture up. I believe some folks were only seeing the wood grain and missing the "finish checking". These pictures make it pretty obvious. I like the new finish. Nice job.

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Get off my lawn!