38/44 HE question

littlerocknroller · #1 03-26-2016, 04:46 AM

I could buy a 38/44 Hand Ejector some weeks ago from a friend. This gun, however is a little bit different from the usual HE. It has the wrong grips with the deep gold color medaillon which i will try to replace as soon as I find a pair of nice original grips. Second, the gun has a 6 1/2" barrel which is not the common length. The front sight looks different, too. As you can see on the picture, the gun has a re-work star and a date on the frame, which indicates, that some work must have been done in the past. The humpback hammer is a nice goodie. I guess that the re-work could have been changing the barrel to 6 1/2" with the different front sight. Can anybody confirm my guess or has another idea? Thanks.
Rainer

Muley Gil · #2 03-26-2016, 07:59 AM

Well, the grips are from the 1910s and the barrel has a Patridge front sight, rather than the standard half moon. The grips are worth several hundred dollars all by themselves.

Is that a red plastic insert on the face of the front sight or red paint? The rework could be changing out the barrel or simply installing that Patridge blade. Is there a diamond stamp inside of the ejector rod shroud and does the barrel serial number match the butt number?

Are those vice marks on the barrel, above the ejector rod, or are those German proofmarks?

littlerocknroller · #3 03-26-2016, 09:11 AM

Thanks for your prompt reply. I'm not sure if I posted my answer or not, because a collector friend called during writing. So here my answers again: The red on the front sight is just red paint, which I can remove easily. Yes, I know that the grips are expensive, but wrong. I don't believe that Smit & Wesson used their old 1910 stock for a gun which dates appr. 1931. And, yes, there is a small diamond stamp inside of the ejector rod shroud and the barrels SN is matching with the SN on the butt of the gun. Lucky enough theses are NO vise marks, but British proof marks. Unusually small for British proof marks which usually are splattered all over the barrels rear end. There is also a hard to see note NOT BRITISH MAKE above the trigger guard and small proof marks on the rear face of the cylinder for each chamber.
In case I sent this twice - sorry.
Rainer

g8rb8 · #4 03-26-2016, 09:46 AM

Understatement of the day: That's a beautiful revolver.
The details of some of the stampings are a bit blurry to me.
Is the serial # 377(9)8? Is the forth digit a 9? Regardless it should date to circa 1931.
Are the numbers stamped on the left butt frame 1-49? Wouldn't that suggest a trip back to S&W in 1-49?
Is it stamped .38 S&W Special CTG on right side of barrel?
Have the grips been inspected for a serial #?
The medallions do look gold but any chance it could be tarnish or applied finish?
Is cylinder numbered to revolver?
SCSW says 4" and 6-1/2" barrel length bring three to four times premium.
SCSW says premium for Magna grips.
I would guess it went back to factory for a "new" front sight. A letter would probably add useful information.

DCWilson · #5 03-26-2016, 11:18 AM

It also has a humpback hammer, which was not available before the late 1930s. I suspect the sight and the hammer were installed on a return trip to the factory in 1942 (which is how I read the rework date stamp).

The patridge sight without an adustable rear sight puts this gun in the half-target class. S&W shipped some revolvers that way on a special order, and others were turned into half-targets after shipment in the standard fixed-sight configuration.

Very interesting revolver, and very attractive.

Art Doc · #6 03-26-2016, 11:28 AM

Letter it before you do anything.

littlerocknroller · #7 03-26-2016, 11:53 AM

Checked the gun again - The S/Ncis 37798. The numbers on the left butt frame are 1 42. The barrel is stamped .38 S&W Special Ctg. There is no serial number on the inside of the grips - just plain. The cylinder is numbered to the revolver. In front of the trigger guard srew there is a small oval with the letters JB and a 2 underneath. No idea what this means. I'm sure that the medaillons are correct. They are of the common gold dish type like with the earlier Hand Ejectors. For me not correct to the gun, although they have a perfect fit. The only sign of wear is ath the front of the barrel under the front sight, where a little blueing got lost. The recoil shield almost looks like the gun has been fired very little. It's really interesting to learn so much about this specific gun. I never heard of the terminus "semi target". Thanks to all of you.

H Richard · #8 03-26-2016, 12:04 PM

If the gun went back to the factory in 1942 for new barrel or other work, the factory may have also changed the grips possibly at the owners request. At that time, with the war on they may have used whatever was available at the time. I would letter this gun , and then check with S&W Historical and see if they have digitized this time frame yet and see if there is any information on hand about the return trip.

cgt4570 · #9 03-26-2016, 12:05 PM

Does that serial number fall within the British .455 2nd series (I don't remember off the top of my head)? With the "Not English Make", it makes me think the frame was released from British military service. Is there a star on the cylinder as well? It's possible that a WW1 .455 was sent back to the factory for a new barrel AND cylinder.

littlerocknroller · #10 03-26-2016, 12:19 PM

I don't think that this is a gun modified to .38 Special. If this was originally a Brithish Service Gun it should have the provision for a lawnyard ring, which is not the case. There is NO rework star on the cylinder, too. Maybe the gun is worth to be letteed by Roy, to get the optimum information. This could of great value also, because the grips may be correct and I should not look for a pair of Magnas. By the way, the British Service Guns should have the S&W logo on the side plate and not on the left side of the frame (to my knowledge).

policerevolvercollector · #11 03-26-2016, 12:31 PM

My totally unsolicited vote is not to touch it at least until you get a letter. There are a lot of variables here. You might have a "put together gun" (I don't think so....) or something REALLY special. Please letter it and post the results!

1Aspenhill · #12 03-28-2016, 10:44 AM

37798 left the factory as a 5" Blued gun. The barrel is not original and the factory would stamp the gun serial number in a replacement barrel. Yes the Humpback Hammer was not available in 1930/31 when this gun left the factory and there are no known examples of a 6.5" HD that early. The barrel was changed and the HBH added. Don't know if it was an HD barrel or OD barrel as any gunsmith could make an HD barrel into an OD barrel with a partridge front sight. It is really cool looking and a shooter, but not collectable. I hope this helps,
Bill

cgt4570 · #13 03-28-2016, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlerocknroller

I don't think that this is a gun modified to .38 Special. If this was originally a Brithish Service Gun it should have the provision for a lawnyard ring, which is not the case. There is NO rework star on the cylinder, too. Maybe the gun is worth to be letteed by Roy, to get the optimum information. This could of great value also, because the grips may be correct and I should not look for a pair of Magnas. By the way, the British Service Guns should have the S&W logo on the side plate and not on the left side of the frame (to my knowledge).

You are correct on all points. I didn't even think about the lanyard ring hole.

1Aspenhill · #14 03-28-2016, 03:42 PM

Grips are not correct. This gun should have left the factory with silver medallion service grips.

DWalt · #15 03-28-2016, 04:33 PM

I would be very happy to keep the 1911-1919 grips that are on it.

littlerocknroller · #16 03-29-2016, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Aspenhill

37798 left the factory as a 5" Blued gun. The barrel is not original and the factory would stamp the gun serial number in a replacement barrel. Yes the Humpback Hammer was not available in 1930/31 when this gun left the factory and there are no known examples of a 6.5" HD that early. The barrel was changed and the HBH added. Don't know if it was an HD barrel or OD barrel as any gunsmith could make an HD barrel into an OD barrel with a partridge front sight. It is really cool looking and a shooter, but not collectable. I hope this helps,
Bill

Hello Bill,

thanks for your detailed information. However, the barrel is numbered to the gun where the ejector rod meets the shroud. There is also a small diamont pattern behind the S/N. Does this help in any way?7
Thanks
Rainer

Muley Gil · #17 03-29-2016, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlerocknroller

Hello Bill,

thanks for your detailed information. However, the barrel is numbered to the gun where the ejector rod meets the shroud. There is also a small diamont pattern behind the S/N. Does this help in any way?7
Thanks
Rainer

The diamond indicates the barrel was replaced. The factory would stamp the same SN on the new part.

"...and then check with S&W Historical and see if they have digitized this time frame yet and see if there is any information on hand about the return trip."

My 1926 .44 went back to the factory for work in February 1942 and the Historical division was able to locate the owner's letter to them and the cost of the repairs.

1Aspenhill · #18 03-29-2016, 08:59 AM

The diamond mark is a factory mark indicating a replacement. The factory would put the serial number on the part it replaced if it had one. You can spend the money on a factory letter but I know that it left with a 5" barrel.