The Guns of Camp Wolters Civilian Police 1941

ordnanceguy

ordnanceguy

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Gentlemen:

I ran across this pic on Ebay and thought it was pretty interesting. It is dated 2/7/41, ten months before the Pearl Harbor attack threw the US into WW2.



Camp Wolters was near Mineral Wells, TX. During WW2 it was an Infantry Replacement Training Center. Audie Murphy underwent his basic training there. In later years, as Fort Wolters, it was noteworthy as the training site for most of the Army helicopter pilots who flew in Viet Nam. It shut down for good in 1973.

The caption reads: "This is the 'artillery' that the number 2 shift of the Camp Wolters civilian police organization carries on duty. As the shift of 80 men go off duty the guns are checked in at the camp's police headquarters. Each gun is ready for instant action, but not one has been fired within the camp's bounds."

The variety of guns in the inventory here is astonishing. Most seem to be Colts but a few S&Ws are evident. There might be a Wolf & Klar in there somewhere with all those shiny guns. The lack of standardization might be explained by the pre-war circumstances. I wonder if one could just pick and choose while going on duty. I suspect that things tightened up considerably once the war started. Heck, those civilian cops at Camp Wolters might have qualified to get DSC authorized Victory Models. Another reminder that things were very different back then.
 
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I attended a Jr. (HS) R OT C summer camp there about 1960, and the Army base was patrolled by regular MP's, if that interests anyone.

I suspect that those guns were at least partially confiscated ones turned over to LE. That would explain the variety among guns evidently not personally owned.

BTW, summer camp was the only place where I was able to fire the M-1 rifle. We had an underground range at school for .22's, but not for Garands, BAR 's etc. Oh: we got to fire mortars and had a mission where we had to "knock out " an enemy ammo dump or something. It was great fun. My biggest disappointment was that they didn't let us fire pistols.
 
"Mineral Springs, TX."

Fort Wolters (formerly Camp Wolters) is actually near Mineral Wells TX, west of Fort Worth. I used to live very near it. It was shut down at the end of the Vietnam era. It had indeed been a helicopter training base at that time, big rectangular concrete landing pads were everywhere, looked like a giant checkerboard. It's now an industrial park, or was the last time I was there. I had a high school teacher who had been an Army instructor there all through WWII. I believe it was a basic training post back then. He had lots of stories about his experiences there.
 
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DWalt said:
Fort Wolters (formerly Camp Wolters) is actually near Mineral Wells TX, west of Fort Worth.
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Yes, of course. It is Mineral Wells, not Mineral Springs, Texas. I edited my post to reflect the correct name of the town where Camp Wolters was once located.
 
Several weeks ago I was on vacation in the Pacific Northwest and we ran into another retired couple, from Cincinnati. Turned out the man had been a helicopter pilot who had trained at Fort Wolters and was very familiar with the area. We talked about it quite a bit.
 
I wonder why anyone is surprised at the variety of handguns for civilian police, in those pre-WWII, just-barely-out-of-the-Great-Depression days. I'm surprised there isn't a flintlock in there.
 
I think I would prefer one of the single actions (chambered in .45 Colt of course) over any of the three oddball-looking bottom feeders I can see in the photo. Maybe the autos were back up guns and / or for plain clothes duty?
 
Jack Flash said:
I think I would prefer one of the single actions (chambered in .45 Colt of course) over any of the three oddball-looking bottom feeders I can see in the photo. Maybe the autos were back up guns and / or for plain clothes duty?
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I think that I saw two Colt 1903/08 autos in there....the third I can not get a make on....

I have a 1908 in 380 and I would feel under-gunned as a uniformed officer....but it is a well built gun that could be trusted (same goes for the 32 auto version).
 
...picture reminds me of Skeeter Skelton...he must have owned an example of every handgun ever made at one time or another...and carried many of them while wearing a badge...

image008.jpg
 
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I find it interesting that there are no 1911s in the photo.

As a side note about the variety of weapons, when I started in LE back in the early '70s, the only stipulation was that it be .38 Special or greater. Just about every gun available in those days was carried as a duty weapon. I, myself, carried everything from .38 Special to .44 mag., with must being revolvers, but there were autos used as well. It was a different time than nowadays, with few restrictions.......
 
L Pete said:
I find it interesting that there are no 1911s in the photo. ...
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The photo is dated 2/7/41, and by then war clouds were gathering. Perhaps at that point, all the M1911s/M1911A1s were spoken for by the regular military units.

I do think I saw at least one Colt New Service in there. Could it be an M1917.
 
There are a couple of things that I don't understand about that photo and caption. This was a military installation, so why were there civilian police/guards? They should have been military police, or War Department police/guards, and in either case should have been issued their weapons. My first permanent duty station in the Army was Picatiny Arsenal in NJ, and there were no MP's there with the exception of the Provost Martial. All of the guards were civilian DOD employees, and I was told by the Chief of the guard force, that Picatinny had never had had military police, even in WWII. The guards were all armed with .38 Special revolvers, either Colt OP's or S&W M&P's. The handguns were issued only for self defense, as the guards had no power of arrest. Later in my career, I was stationed for a coupe of years at Rock Island Arsenal, and they had an all civilian guard force also, but some of them were DOD police, who did have arrest powers. None of the installations I was assigned to had any weapons issued to guards or police other than standard military issue, even Lake City Ammo Plant, where the guards were Remington employees, and were deputized by the local Sheriff.
 
Skeetr57 said:
There are a couple of things that I don't understand about that photo and caption. This was a military installation, so why were there civilian police/guards? They should have been military police, or War Department police/guards, and in either case should have been issued their weapons.
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I also thought something was strange. At that time, I would have suspected a military guard (MP) force would be used at an active military base. Even were the guards War Department civilians or even contractors, I would have assumed the government would have provided weapons, or at least specified acceptable weapons.

Over 10 years ago, I had some minor involvement in contracting for USAF civilian base guards, and at that time the guards were specifically required under the contract to carry the civilian equivalent of the Beretta M9.
 
L Pete said:
I find it interesting that there are no 1911s in the photo.

As a side note about the variety of weapons, when I started in LE back in the early '70s, the only stipulation was that it be .38 Special or greater. Just about every gun available in those days was carried as a duty weapon. I, myself, carried everything from .38 Special to .44 mag., with must being revolvers, but there were autos used as well. It was a different time than nowadays, with few restrictions.......
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I know exactly what you're talking about. In the early days of my career, I went from a Pre-M10 to a S&W 1917 which I carried for several years. I worked with one guy who carried a 6 1/2 inch Pre-M29. Also, about this time I saw a city officer from a neighboring jurisdiction carrying a Ruger Blackhawk S/A on his duty belt. My, how the times have changed.
 
Skeetr57 said:
There are a couple of things that I don't understand about that photo and caption. This was a military installation, so why were there civilian police/guards? They should have been military police, or War Department police/guards, and in either case should have been issued their weapons.......
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Camp Wolters

According to the local site above, Camp Wolters belonged to the Texas National Guard at the time of the picture. It was selected as an Infantry Replacement Training Center in October 1940 and construction started in November; it was turned over to the Army on March 22, 1941, so when this photo was supposedly taken in February, it would still have been a construction site, not a federal military facility.

80 civilian guards per shift still seems excessive, although at one time there were more than 19,000 workers employed in getting the camp ready. Since they were presumably civilians and not soldiers, a civilian police force makes sense. There are only 48 or 49 guns in those boxes. The caption also seems datelined NY; who knows whether its author really knew what he was talking about ;) .
 

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Yes, 80 per shift seems to be excessive. 80 per 24-hour day seems more logical. Probably needed to prevent theft of construction materials, tools, and equipment more than anything. Sabotage would not have been too likely.
 
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