"I have two guns, one for each of you..." I`m sorry, I just always wanted to say that...

I`ve been reading on the forum for years but I`m pretty new to posting on here and this will be my first thread. I picked these two transitional magnums up separately a few years apart, the blued one first at a gunshow and the other one at an estate gun auction a couple hours away. I decided to do a thread on these since the forum is the first place I went to for more information about this particular elusive model after I traded for the blued gun and looked it up in the Standard Catalog after I got home to see what I had.

The first thing I noticed when I got my hands on the blued gun was the prewar grooved hammer on the same gun with a postwar sight and S prefix 71,800 range serial number. I was aware of postwar transitional guns and had a few K and N frame .38`s but I`d never seen nor heard tell of a transitional magnum so I wasn`t completely sure of what I had. I`ve always had a thing for the 5 inch and shorter N frame 357`s so I knew I needed this one too, whatever it was. I spent the better part of that night reading and learning about the transitional magnums and felt mighty lucky to have stumbled upon one. I`m not a rich guy and I knew I could sell it at a hefty profit but never really considered it because where would I ever find another one???

You can imagine my surprise when I checked on a big estate gun sale I`d heard about in another town and saw a picture online of the silver finished gun which I believe to be aftermarket chrome but at the time imagined might be factory nickel. It was listed in the auction catalog as a "model 63 357 magnum" or some such rubbish and the serial number they listed wasn`t even close to being correct but even in the small blurry photo I could tell I was looking at a 5 screw N frame with a prewar hammer and postwar sight despite the 70`s era wood grips it was wearing. Could it be?? After a long drive the day before the auction to preview everything I saw that sure enough, it was. Thanks to the 40 degree temperature causing condensation to form on the guns and the poor lighting I thought with the hammer, trigger, sights, and ejector star not being plated I thought it might even be factory nickel. I couldn`t sleep worth a darn that night thinking about it... It turned out to look more chrome than nickel in the daylight the next day, but I pounced on it anyway as it was one of the few S&W`s there that didn`t go for about 125% of their full retail value. It`s hard to put a value on this one I suppose since it`s been chromed and I`m not aware of any similar refinished 3 1/2" transitionals selling at auction lately but I guess it doesn`t matter since obviously I can`t sell it either.

I contacted bmg60 with the serial numbers for his database and he supposes that both were probably shipped to the Kansas Highway Patrol in the same 25 gun shipment. I haven`t lettered either of them yet but it is on my list of things to do. Does anyone on here have any idea when KHP quit using these and surplussed them out?

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Nice brace of revolvers.

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Living a dream - S&WCA #2364

I love the one in blue. The wear and tear just talk to me, and my hands want to wrap around those worn grips.

Nice pair.

Good heavens, Lawman!! You may not post here often, but you sure know how to get our attention!! What a pair of beauties!!!

Of course you have the gun right there, so I guess you can tell, but that plating job looks pretty good in your photos. Are there any markings to indicate that it might be a factory plating? Under the stocks on the frame? An R-N? Are you sure that it is chrome and not nickle? Just curious...

Please keep us appraised of any additional information you get on them.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Wow. Very nice. Did "bmg60" tell you how many known trans-
itional .357's exist now with the addition of your two?

I know what you mean. As a history lover and a professional gun carrier myself I like a gun that has been carried and has a story to tell even if I don`t know what the story is. Speaking of the grips, they aren`t numbered to the gun but they are within 10 or 12 numbers of the gun so I imagine they got switched with another gun that got shipped to the same department.

No and I forgot to ask him. I was thinking the last count I saw was around 12 or 15 or so. Maybe he will pop in and answer that for us.

Thanks again, Les. The finish does look pretty good but it looks too silvery to be nickel and doesn`t have that goldish tint that nickel guns have. Also you can see a waviness to the finish at the right angle that a factory finish wouldn`t have. At least they didn`t plate the sights and hammer/trigger and the markings are still good. There aren`t any factory refinish marks under the grips, but there is an old gentleman`s SSN and DOB electro-penciled onto the frame.

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Mr. Jinks says that both the blued S71800 serial range gun and the silver finished S71700 serial range gun were shipped in December of 1948, but that he saw some yet to be verified indication that the silver finish gun might have been a special order. I guess I need to go ahead and put these 2 at the top of my list of guns to get factory letters for now that I just received the last batch of letters in I`d sent off for on a 6 1/2" 1950 target with bright finish and ramp sight in .45 Colt, a 2" nickel prewar 1905 model M&P, and what was once a factory 5 1/2" nickel Registered Magnum that has undergone a most unfortunate series of refinishing and parts changes over the years.

I'd love to see some photos of this one...please.

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

What is that plugged hole just below the thumb piece on both revolvers? It reminds me of the keylock hole that so many of us object to.

Hammer stud; they weren't polished flush pre war.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

I think that what you are seeing is the end of the pivot pin that the hammer rotates on, which on the early guns showed on the outside. It has a real name, which for the moment eludes me.

Edit: Kris was typing faster than me...also knew the correct name!!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I will get some pictures of it when I get a chance and probably start a new thread on it so everyone can join me in my amazement and disgust about how such a rare and valuable gun ended up. It has a factory work date of 12.52 on the frame when I imagine they installed the nickel 3 1/2" post war barrel that is numbered to the gun and a matching post war adjustable rear sight but evidently sometime before that the gun was aftermarket chromed (including the hammer and trigger). For some unimaginable reason the frame and cylinder weren`t factory refininshed when the nickel barrel was installed resulting in a bizarre chrome/nickel 2 tone.

Here are pictures of the reg mag, #1661. Shipped Dec 1st 1936 to F.L. Gastavas in Memphis TN with a 5 1/2" barrel and nickel finish. Aint that a shame?

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It has a very distinctly 'loved' and 'well-used' look about it. I would imagine that it has some miles on the odometer in the care of a lawman who was serious about bringing enough gun to the party.

If you need to hide the shame, send it to me or my dad, we LOVE old LE guns....I have a Non-Reg mag that shows an almost equal amount of love

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On the Oak Savannah

You might as well round butt and Cerekote it as well.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little...

So at the risk of getting scoffed of the thread. If this latest example has been poorly refinished in the past, why not have it properly restored? Seems to me it would not diminish the value any more that what's already been done?

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

That there gun has "character". Although it is disappointing that it was modified in the first place. I do like the modifications - 3.5" barrel with a Patridge FS, and what looks to be a bit of smoothing on the edges of the trigger - pretty cool! I'll bet that baby is a smooth shooting long-action .357 lead slinger and a total blast at the range.

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

I think this gun is a good candidate for a refinish. I`d originally planned to just get the hammer and trigger stripped and recolored and see if I could get lucky enough to find a prewar rear sight for it then put it in the "using gun" category of my collection but once I got it in my hands I saw the obvious mismatch in the finish between the factory nickel post war replacement barrel and the aftermarket chrome refinish on the rest of the gun...and that bugs me. Especially now that the factory letter confirms it was originally a nickel gun I would like to see it with a nice all over nickel finish again. Now I have to decide if I want to keep the 3 1/2" post war barrel that is serial numbered to the gun on it or use the extra prewar 5 1/2" barrel I have in my stash and put it back to the original length even though the numbers won`t match. decisions, decisions. I will try to get a new thread started for this gun tomorrow and see what suggestions I get on what to do with it.

[QUOTE
That there gun has "character". Although it is disappointing that it was modified in the first place. I do like the modifications - 3.5" barrel with a Patridge FS, and what looks to be a bit of smoothing on the edges of the trigger - pretty cool! I'll bet that baby is a smooth shooting long-action .357 lead slinger and a total blast at the range. [/QUOTE]

I forgot to mention the trigger is marked up from one of those infernal trigger shoes that I have already tossed. I guess they couldn`t decided where the wanted it so they kept moving it around and made sure the trigger was good and marked up most of the way down. It is a reg mag though after all and therefore pretty dang cool and it is mechanically everything it should be. I haven`t shot this one yet, but I expect it will do just as well as my other refinished prewar using guns.

Throwing this thread to the top…..lawman, did you letter these two Kansas HP .357 Magnum Transitionals? If so, can you please post pictures of the letters?

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Terry Lester

Some current statistics:

There are now 25 Post War .357 Magnum Transitionals known to be extant within our S&W collecting community - including the 2 in this thread.

Of these 25 extant examples, 1 was shipped in 1946, 23 were shipped in 1948, and 1 was shipped in 1949.

Of these 25 extant examples, 15 were for the Kansas Highway Patrol, the other 10 were mostly special order 1 gun shipments to individuals (for example, S71893 was for President Truman)

Serial numbers for nearly all 25 extant examples are in the S71XXX range with one in the very low S72XXX range.

The S&WCA .357 Magnum Transitionals database lists a total of 72 serial numbers; the 25 extant plus 47 listed from factory invoices.

142 Post War .357 Magnum Transitionals were manufactured from 1946 to 1949 according to the SCS&W 4th Edition.

Of the 142 manufactured .357 Magnum Transitionals, 75 were for the Kansas Highway Patrol (25 - 3 1/2”, 50 - 5”). Some of the remaining .357 Magnum Transitionals were manufactured for special orders and shipped to such notables as President Harry Truman, his Military Aide Major General Harry Vaughan, Major General Julian Hatcher, C. L. Davis, President of Remington Arms Co., C. R. Hellstrom, President or Smith & Wesson Inc., E. F. Warner, Publisher of Field & Stream Magazine, Sasha Siemel, and many other important and interesting individuals.

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Terry Lester

Sorry it took me a while to get to this- I`ve been pretty swamped with work lately trying to fight the current as our economy circles the drain...

I lettered the blued one quite a while back and unfortunately back then the SWCA didn`t have all the other records sorted yet because it would have saved me the cost of the letter for the chromed one if I`d already had this copy of the shipping invoice I got when I lettered the second one- showing that both guns were originally in the same 25 gun shipment of 3 1/2" guns to the Kansas Highway Patrol in December of 1948.

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My favorite color is nickel

I Got One Word .... SWEET !!!

Thanks for posting,
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Really interesting read and the blue is beautiful.

lawman, thanks for posting pictures of the factory letters and invoice. Your Transitionals, as well as all of the other serial numbers on the factory invoice, are now listed in the Post War .357 Magnum Transitionals database on the S&WCA Website at Smith & Wesson Collectors Association – The Collectors Resource for Historic Smith & Wesson Firearms.

Below, from the .357 Magnum Transitionals section, is my favorite picture and comment in the entire SCS&W…….

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Terry Lester

These are really rare and here is a pair from the same shipment with law enforcement provenance.
Think this should be a notable thread. Amazing to me that it has not already been done.
Congrats to the OP to have a pair.

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David Reynolds