A Mathews custom 3 inch & a new name for an LAPD grip maker - Kanthack .. & Zeiner

A Mathews custom 3 inch & a new name for an LAPD grip maker - Kanthack .. & Zeiner

Joe Kent finally found one of his grail guns – a Mathews combat conversion – in a lot of 4 from retired LAPD Lieutenant Max Hurlbut (LAPD 1960 – 1985). We then, of course, had to buy his book Vagabond Policeman, available from Amazon, which had the surprise revelation of a new name for an LAPD grip maker, Arthur Kanthack.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...ications-well-george-mathews-s-w-pistols.html

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge...r-pistolsmith-george-matthews-california.html

Here's my rough bibliography for Mathews articles and pictures:

Guns & Ammo Annuals for 1969, 1970, 1974 and 1977.
Guns & Ammo May, 1990
Guns magazine January, 1986
Handguns 1989
Custom Combat Handguns 2000


From the top - all but the 68 carried at one time by Lt. Hurlbutt while an LAPD officer - including the .357:

S&W mdl. 68 .38 6 inch, LAPD Lt. badge #1.
S&W .357 6 inch with Farrant target grips, cut frame.
S&W Mdl. 15 .38 4 inch with Hurst grips, cut frame.
S&W mdl. 10 no dash, 3 inch with Kanthack grips, not a cut frame.



The Mathews M&P 3 inch with rib. C482xxx originally a 4 inch square butt.
The rear sight is not adjustable except for possibly being able to drift the inset blade horizontally. My photography skills failed again. These are the best I have at the moment. The personal note of authenticity included with the auction lists the cost of the conversion in 1960 as $42.50.













The Kanthack grips.





Hurlbut, Max K., Vagabond Policeman Pg. 53-54

“Gunsmith George Mathews in Downey makes a “Mathews Special.” He hones the action of my .38 S&W “Military & Police” model 10, lightens the trigger spring and modifies the hammer. He cuts the barrel to three inches [from 4] and ribs it. He removes a portion of the trigger guard (but not cutting it completely through), making it easier to slip in gloved finger. The polished action cycles like glass. Thin Art Kanthack (our academy law instructor) scales make an easy to shoot and to conceal grip”


Lt. Hurlbut has since graciously provided additional information about Kanthack.


“I attended the LAPD Academy starting (“class of”) 1 August 1960. JOHN HURST and EARLE M. “FUZZY” FARRANT were range instructors. Most of us obtained grips from them throughout the years as we bought and sold our revolvers. Although they had distinctive styles of grip making, and usually used rosewood, many cross-variations exist. They used a wood-carving machine to make the basic form and then carved to fit your hand. FUZZY would draw an outline of your shooting hand and make various notations on it. HURST would examine your hand, but took no notes.

Policeman ARTHUR R. KANTHACK was our law instructor. Tall, thin, sandy haired, and around 40. He was somewhat of a dry speaker. He always started each new academy class with his favorite joke: “Question. Define ‘illegal.’” After the class volunteered their various answers, he’d respond: “Wrong: It’s a sick eagle.” (Silence).

KANTHACK wore a most unusual thin grip on his .38 Special. When I became more prosperous and had GEORGE MATHEWS of Downey make his famous “Combat Conversion" out of an M. & P., I asked ART to carve some grips….as they were thin and easy to conceal.

I never saw another pair of KANTHACK grips in 25 years on the Department and shooting, at least, every month, with the other thousands of officers. He did not advertise and there was no “word of mouth.” I would not be surprised to learn that his and mine are the only ones he ever carved.”


https://www.lafpp.com/sites/default...pension-commissioners/minutes/minutes-990.pdf HT DC Wilson

LAPD Pension Board Minutes 03-23-89

Arthur R. Kanthack Police Service Retired 11-01-68 Died 02-24-89
.

SG-688, as usual you have done a great job of posting both pictures and story/outline of a revolver that I have chased since the very early 70's. As a bonus we have been able to visit with an extremely interesting retired LA Lt. who was there thru the riots of the 60"s and 70's, went on to be a Chief of Police in Alaska, then Marshall of Tombstone , Arizona, as well as a US Army Special Forces Officer. He also is a world wide big game hunter. A fine example of a man who has led a Man's life while serving his community and our Great Country. We all are lucky to have this caliber of man among us. I might add that in our communication with Lt./Chief/Marshall/ Col. Hurlbut, we have found him to be an all around great guy who is very easy to visit with and a man very easy to call friend. Both SG-688 and myself are grateful for his help in filling in the blanks. All my very best, Joe.

Many thanks for posting these fine looking revolvers. I find the way the hammer's were done to be very interesting short enough so no snagging but large enough so as to be able be shot single action. And like the wundhammer type palm swell on the grips. Frank

GREAT post! Always love to read stuff about my old department and the cops who policed LA.
Bob

Craig and Joe, great stuff. If you can, please provide a shot of the screw for the Kanthack grips. Sometimes the smallest of details can help us identify future finds.

I have a thin set of "LAPD" west coast style stocks that have the blind escutcheon like farrant or hurst.

That Mathews revolver looks like a real gun fightin' handgun! It is nice to see something like this (a useful custom tool). Sometimes I get tired of seeing collector grade, LNIB, S&W revolvers.

Thank you for sharing the pictures, but even more so the story!

These stories (and pictures) are what make this forum so special (at least for me)!

Well done and congrats a great find!

This one has been a bit of a mystery to me. Amazing action work, very good shooter. Sure looks a lot like these other Matthews guns, what do you think?

My dad bought the 1970 G&A Annual mentioned when I was 13 and I always liked the Matthews gun article. I still have it and here it is just in case it wasn't linked to above already and I missed it.

Excellent information! Always glad to learn anything new about the LAPD grip makers.

And another name - Zeiner!!

Max responded to our thank you's with another bit of information:

"The heavy (.44) frame .357 is the first revolver I ever owned. Purchased from “Gordon’s Hardware” on Del Mar Avenue in San Clemente, CA, in 1958. My LAPD class of 1 August 1960 was issued the first City-paid weapons — Colt .38 “Officers’ Models.” Terrible trigger pulls.

I carried the heavy .357 Mag. in my first year on the job in Hollywood Division. It became so holster-worn and scratched that I had it reblued by Sgt. ED ZEINER. His blue-black was superior to anything done at that time by Colt or S&W. ZEINER also made occasional grips. He did not work the Academy during my time, but University Detectives"


And this was in a previous email. Lots of good history like this in his book.

"For decades, LAPD would not issue CCW permits for any reason. We were always restricted to .38 Special ammo, either 180 [158 ??] or 200 grain bullets, not to exceed 1000 fps velocity. Revolver manufacturers were limited to Colt or to S&W.

Officers, before my class of 1 August 1960, had to purchase their uniforms and all equipment. Many officers carried .357 Mags., but were denied use of the magnum rounds. Much of L.A. consists of apartment buildings and stores with lath-and-plaster walls. It was feared that a stray round from a “good shooting” could penetrate several walls and hit an unintended victim. (Strangely, hollow-point rounds were prohibited, even though they would flatten out and had less penetration potential).

Many officers would carry extra .357 rounds as “insurance,” should a shooter be behind a barricade that hotter rounds would penetrate. Some hand-loaded .38 special casings with Bullseye, with its fast burning rate, to increase the velocity. Field sergeants and Watch Commanders “looked the other way.” In the late-1960s this was considered to be a liability issue and all revolvers were limited to .38 Special."

Max provided this photo from 1961.

-db- said:

Craig and Joe, great stuff. If you can, please provide a shot of the screw for the Kanthack grips. Sometimes the smallest of details can help us identify future finds.

Click to expand...

I know I screwed up on the screw. I meant to measure it, but we were short on time. And when I got home, I didn't even have a picture of the screw. IIRC, it was bigger than a Farrant 4-40, about like a Hurst screw - perhaps a 6 something. Of course, Joe isn't so far away and can still get on that.

Here's a shot of the head.




In a 2000 article, Wiley Clapp credits the grips on a 2 inch Mathews to one Bill Blackwood. They're similar to the ones in the 1970 G&A Annual in that they don't have finger grooves. Who was Bill Blackwood?? Don't know - and Wiley has never answered our attempts at more information.

Wyatt Burp, that is the very same issue that started me on my quest for that particular revolver. From the same issue, I ordered Fuzzy's stocks for my Model 19 and sent a Government Model 1911 to Swenson. I did not realize that Matthews was still in operation or I would have sent an M&P{the real one} to him. It has been a lot of fun finding the one above and quite frankly even more interesting visiting with Marshall Hurlbut. I would recommend his book, Vagabond Policeman, to the many Forum members who have interest in law enforcement and the men who wear the badge. It can be found on Amazon. He is a great guy.

I saw that G&A Annual and think Gun World ran an article on Matthews, probably about 1960-62.


You could come pretty close to this sort of gun by slicking the action on a M-13 three-inch bbl. and using smooth rosewood service stocks and a Tyler adaptor or just custom stocks.


I'd go the stainless M-65 route.


Of course, that wouldn't involve the period/collector aspect of the Mattthews guns.

SG-688 said:

Max responded to our thank you's with another bit of information:

"The heavy (.44) frame .357 is the first revolver I ever owned. Purchased from “Gordon’s Hardware” on Del Mar Avenue in San Clemente, CA, in 1958. My LAPD class of 1 August 1960 was issued the first City-paid weapons — Colt .38 “Officers’ Models.” Terrible trigger pulls.

I carried the heavy .357 Mag. in my first year on the job in Hollywood Division. It became so holster-worn and scratched that I had it reblued by Sgt. ED ZEINER. His blue-black was superior to anything done at that time by Colt or S&W. ZEINER also made occasional grips. He did not work the Academy during my time, but University Detectives"


And this was in a previous email. Lots of good history like this in his book.

"For decades, LAPD would not issue CCW permits for any reason. We were always restricted to .38 Special ammo, either 180 [158 ??] or 200 grain bullets, not to exceed 1000 fps velocity. Revolver manufacturers were limited to Colt or to S&W.

Officers, before my class of 1 August 1960, had to purchase their uniforms and all equipment. Many officers carried .357 Mags., but were denied use of the magnum rounds. Much of L.A. consists of apartment buildings and stores with lath-and-plaster walls. It was feared that a stray round from a “good shooting” could penetrate several walls and hit an unintended victim. (Strangely, hollow-point rounds were prohibited, even though they would flatten out and had less penetration potential).

Many officers would carry extra .357 rounds as “insurance,” should a shooter be behind a barricade that hotter rounds would penetrate. Some hand-loaded .38 special casings with Bullseye, with its fast burning rate, to increase the velocity. Field sergeants and Watch Commanders “looked the other way.” In the late-1960s this was considered to be a liability issue and all revolvers were limited to .38 Special."

Max provided this photo from 1961.

Click to expand...

Heck, I almost thought that was Martin Milner!

More from Marshal Max

Max's photo of the Mathews



His engraved Mdl 19. He also had an engraved Python but I don't have a clean photo of it.





"“My Model 19 S. & W. .357, (1968). Cordia wood grips by JOHN HURST. Engraving & gold inlays by F.N. Master, ANGELO BEE. “

“Yes, JOHN HURST cut frames. He did so on the engraved Model 19. Unfortunately, this cut off part of the frame serial number. (I never complained). He was guilt-ridden by this, and must have apologized a dozen times over the years…..”

I was surprised to see this thread revived on facebook on the Custom Handgun page.

Reading this again I realized I have the 1989 Handguns mrntioned with the Mathews article. I hope these pages are in order and readable.

Wyatt Burp, thanks for adding the 1989 Handgun Digest article. All my best, Joe.