History of this .38 Special with British markings

edmontonshooter · Apr 15, 2017

Hello from Canada! I've had this pistol in my collection for many years and would love to know more about its history as it has some interesting markings.

It is a Smith and Wesson .38 Special, 6 inch tapered barrel. 4 screw, hand ejector. Post-factory adjustable front and rear sights. I acquired this in the late 90s and was told at the time by the seller that it was a former RCMP service revolver however it does not have a M&P frame stamp and lacks a lanyard swivel. I have also been told it could be an ex WWII British service revolver.

The serial number is listed in three locations on the barrel, cylinder and butt as 681585 all matching, however the left side of the frame under cylinder hinge shows a stamped five digit number 15849. There is no S&W model number anywhere on the revolver. The barrel shows Made in USA on right side, however there are also Birmingham Nitro Proof (BNP) proof marks on it as well as the 4 TONS inscription on barrel and crossed sceptor/sword Birmingham proof house K-B-2 mark between the cylinder and trigger on the left side of the frame.

I have attached the max of five photos showing some of the markings for your reference.

It is a great shooter and functions flawlessly.

Any insight you can offer would be greatly appreciated, and of course estimates on value are a bonus, thanks!!

ordnanceguy · Apr 16, 2017

Hello Edmonton:

You were properly informed. Your revolver was once the property of His Majesty's government, as established by the Broad Arrow marking on the upper left frame. I don't see any evidence, however, of RCMP use although I suppose anything is possible.

Your Model of 1905, 4th change, has been heavily modified with the addition of target sights in place of the original fixed sights. It has been refinished and the original checkered walnut service stocks have been replaced. When it left the factory it most likely had a butt swivel. Careful examination of the butt may show evidence that the butt swivel hole has been filled in. It went through post-war proofing in the UK so as to be able to be sold on the civilian market.

Your revolver was likely shipped from the S&W factory in 1940. It was shipped to the British Purchasing Commission. It was not a Lend Lease gun. And it is actually a 5 screw, not a 4 screw, as the screw on the front of the frame above the trigger guard is counted.

Is the barrel marked .38 S&W Special on the right side or .38 S&W?

I hope that information is helpful to you.

DWalt · Apr 16, 2017

It's somewhat unusual to see the target conversion as shown. Knowing the caliber stamped on the barrel is important, as at the time this one was made, it well could have been either .38 Special or .38 S&W, but probably the latter. The closest SN on my list is 6818xx which shipped in 3/1940 (however yours could have shipped somewhat later). During the 1950s and 1960s, the British surplussed out large numbers of military revolvers, and the proof markings were applied at that time. My guess is that the target sights anf the Magna grips were applied somewhat later by some gunsmith. Yours did not leave the factory with them.

Absalom · Apr 16, 2017

Charlie is the expert and has told you pretty much everything.

Let me add one modest piece. The mark on the left side of the frame (last photo) is a military acceptance stamp from the Enfield Royal Small Arms Factory. This means that after receipt by the British Purchasing Commission in New York the gun did not go to Canada, but crossed the Atlantic (avoiding being sunk by a U-boat) before the end of 1941 and entered British service. This acceptance stamping was discontinued after Lend-lease started.

Since the gun also has the post-war commercial Birmingham proofs, it likely was not associated with Canada until after it had been surplused out in Britain, making the RCMP connection somewhat less likely; I shouldn't think that by the late 1950s, when this gun left British service, Canada was so poor that they would have needed to arm their police with cheap surplus British revolvers in an obsolete caliber

.

edmontonshooter · Apr 17, 2017

Wow, great insights. Thanks for the excellent feedback, guys. I appreciate you sharing your expertise.

The right side of the barrel bears the 38 S & W SPECIAL CTG factory markings. There is no lanyard hole patched or otherwise on the frame.

Absalom · Apr 17, 2017

edmontonshooter said:
....
The right side of the barrel bears the 38 S & W SPECIAL CTG factory markings. There is no lanyard hole patched or otherwise on the frame.

That does make it a bit unusual. Charles Pate in his book (a bit of a reference "bible" for those interested in this time period) documents some early war pre-lend-lease shipments of .38 Special revolvers with various barrel lengths; compared to those in the standard .38 S&W, identical to the British service caliber, their numbers are small.

There are also stories about the British Purchasing Commission buying up revolvers on the US market whetever they could find them in the desperate years of 1940/41. This gun might be one of those, especially if there is no lanyard hole, as to my knowledge the British always ordered handguns with lanyard loops, even today (see photo

)

DWalt · Apr 17, 2017

It is known that the British converted some .38 Special revolvers purchased in the USA to .38 S&W which was the British military revolver cartridge (called by them the .380 Revolver Mark II). This was very simple to do - just insert a .38 S&W chamber reamer into each chamber. The .38 S&W cartridge case has a slightly larger diameter than the .38 Special. When you look into the chambers, do you see what looks like two steps inside?

Wiregrassguy · Apr 17, 2017

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass!

2152hq · Apr 17, 2017

The K/B/2 marking is a date and inspectors code for Birmingham Proof House.
The style of the marking itself was used from 1950 to '74 (or '75)
K is the date/yr of proof,,in this case 1959
B designates Birmingham Proof Hs
2 was the individual inspector #

Jim Watson · Apr 17, 2017

Sights look like Micro and the stocks are later Magnas.
Points to the target configuration being done in the US after the revolver was declared redundant in England.

Texas Star · Apr 17, 2017

Post a good closeup pic of the caliber marking. Some of these were bored out to take .38 Spcl. ammo. The marking may tell us whether it was original with S&W.

This is not a RCMP gun.

They did use the basic model, adopted in 1954, with five-inch barrel and in .38 Special. These were std. issue untll replaced with the current DA-only S&W 9mm autos. Plainclothes personnel used snub Colt and S&W revolvers.

Prior to adoption of the S&W .38 in 1954, the RCMP used Colt New Service revolvers. Both .455 and .45 Colt chamberings were issued. Those were adopted in 1905.

What you bought is just a former service revolver converted by someone into a target gun. Apparently, they thought this was cheaper than just buying a K-38 Masterpiece.

History of this .38 Special with British markings

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