.455 British Svc Revolver Research Thread

[RS2000CUSTOM]

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

Welcome to the Forum RS2000CUSTOM.

Thank You.

[470Evans]

I picked up this shooter grade gun a month or so at an auction.

It's # 2980x and is marked Smith & Wesson 455 on the left side of the barrel.

I'm pretty pleased with how it shoots.

As always, my loads were safe in my gun only.

[Hondo44]

EDITED: On my tiny phone screen I had confused your gun with RS2000CUSTOM's gun shown before it, see changes in my response below.

Wow, that’s a beauty and in great condition. It doesn’t appear to have any military, proofing or import/export stampings, The two stamps it does have indicate it was sold on the Canadian market the sold out of inventory. It’s a .455 Hand Ejector 2nd Model intended for use with the.455 MKII cartridge but with chambers reamed at the factory for the longer MKI cartridge as requested by the British contract. Of course you knew that since that’s what you load and shoot in it. The serial number would indicate it shipped around the end of 1915. The British referred to this 2nd model as the MKII and stamped that on the frame of those issued to the military.

[470Evans]

Thank you for the information Jim.

It has seen quite a bit of use but mechanically it is in very good condition with a nice bore.

These are the only two proof marks it has.

[Hondo44]

RS2000CUSTOM;

Your .455 Mk II* Hand Ejector - 1st Model (nicknamed the Triple Lock by collectors due to its unique 3 cylinder locks) #1406 is in very nice condition.

The serial # indicates it's a type two British service revolver (see post #1 in this thread for the four types that were made), serial numbered in the British contract serial # number range. It doesn’t appear to have any military, proofing or import/export stampings, which indicate it was sold to the general public on the commercial market likely at the end of 1914. Or it could have been purchased new directly by a British Officer because they were required to supply their own sidearm. Thanks for sharing.

* Mk II refers to the cartridge, not the gun's model.

I hope you're able to acquire it w/o undue problems.

[RS2000CUSTOM]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

RS2000CUSTOM;

Your .455 Mk II* Hand Ejector - 1st Model (nicknamed the Triple Lock by collectors due to its unique 3 cylinder locks) #1406 is in very nice condition.

The serial # indicates it's a type two British service revolver (see post #1 in this thread for the four types that were made), serial numbered in the British contract serial # number range. It doesn’t appear to have any military, proofing or import/export stampings, which indicate it was sold to the general public on the commercial market likely at the end of 1914. Or it could have been purchased new directly by a British Officer because they were required to supply their own sidearm. Thanks for sharing.

* Mk II refers to the cartridge, not the gun's model.

I hope you're able to acquire it w/o undue problems.

Thanks for the info

Any info I can pass on to Police here in UK will help towards my justification to own

My understanding was that the firearm has a Broad Arrow (War Dept issue) stamping as shown in this pic

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by RS2000CUSTOM

Thanks for the info

Any info I can pass on to Police here in UK will help towards my justification to own

My understanding was that the firearm has a Broad Arrow (War Dept issue) stamping as shown in this pic

I would say that it being a fairly rare example of your country's history and dire need to arm itself is a justification. There were probably less than 6,650 455 Triple locks ever made. That is counting the rare commercial models before the British order, the approx 5802 originally supplied of which yours is one and then the 812 made up later for old stock for a total of 6,614. plus very a small number of earlier commercial ones. The fact that they were all produced over 100 years ago, that some were no doubt forever lost in the fortunes of war, some destroyed for political based legal reasons and some just flat lost adds to their rarity. I would think they are extremely rare in your country, because of its know practice of purging itself and its citizens of arms until it finds itself in dire need once again, most of the examples of this exquisite piece of mechanical workmanship were exported by your country after WWI only to find itself in the exact same predicament at the beginning of WWII. I wouldn't be surprised that your Triple lock served in some capacity in both wars, even if for the home guard in WWII. Even ammunition for them is no longer used by any military and is somewhat difficult to find on the commercial market even in the US. For all intents and purposes it is an obsolete cartridge.

This is a premier site on all things S&W and this is no doubt the largest known data base of S&W 455 reported. Anyone doing any research on them would stumble across this site and be directed to this thread. Yet, it only has a total 89 triple locks reported. No doubt there are many times that "somewhere" but it does provide a clue as how hard they are to come by.

Just what criteria does a historical firearm need in your country?

[RS2000CUSTOM]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

Just what criteria does a historical firearm need in your country?

I appreciate all the info you were able to provide and where do I start explaining UK's pistol ownership.

So in 1998 pistol ownership was banned in UK

We can own a Long Barrel Pistol (minimum 12" barrel length) / Revolver but it must also have an extended stock fitted giving a minimum overall length of 24".

To own a "normal" size pistol we are allowed limited access under Section 7.3

The main criteria is it "must" be pre-1919 (so I win on that count)

or

Be of significant historical interest (this is the area that is of the opinion of the Police / Government whether it is accepted on 7.3)

We cannot take firearm home and it must be stored at a licenced range under strict rules of access.

As I am awaiting my 7.3 authority my understanding is that on a limited number of shoot days per year the range is closed to members and 7.3 holders only can go to range - then enter shooting booth - then be handed weapon - fire it - once finished then gun goes back into secure storage.

[steelslaver]

Geez, I walk into a room in my house whenever I want, open safe (not required) open a drawer and select which ever one or ones I want, drive to the range or a field shoot it as much as I want. I can take it out in public, concealed or in open view with no permit. I live in a state with very few gun laws, a very high rate of gun ownership, yet our crime rate and murder rate are low.

You probably read about shootings in America, but actually the majority are committed by a relatively small percentage of people, many of whom are breaking laws on ownership in the first place. We have a violence problem much more than a "gun" problem.

Here is a interesting fact, in the US I can NOT stick a stock on any firearm without at least a 16" barrel without special paperwork.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by RS2000CUSTOM

Thanks for the info

Any info I can pass on to Police here in UK will help towards my justification to own

My understanding was that the firearm has a Broad Arrow (War Dept issue) stamping as shown in this pic

Thanks for the additional enlarged photo. The stampings clearly do indicate military issue!

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

I would say that it being a fairly rare example of your country's history and dire need to arm itself is a justification. There were probably less than 6,650 455 Triple locks ever made. That is counting the rare commercial models before the British order, the approx 5802 originally supplied of which yours is one and then the 812 made up later for old stock for a total of 6,614.

Just FYI: the 812 were the first Triple Locks produced, 666 for the British and the rest sold commercially.

Those made from left over parts were produced last, and there are 691 most sold commercially but some did end up in military service.

Post number 1 of this thread.

[RS2000CUSTOM]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Thanks for the additional enlarged photo. The stampings clearly do indicate military issue!

Due to forum restriction I was only able to post 5 pics at a time - there are 3 posts with pics attached

I notice on page 1 #1406 has been added but may need updating to show it has markings as seen on the pics

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Just FYI: the 812 were the first Triple Locks produced, 666 for the British and the rest sold commercially.

Those made from left over parts were produced last, and there are 691 most sold commercially but some did end up in military service.

Post number 1 of this thread.

So I need to add 691 to the total

812 first from 44 special numbers
5857 from the 455 serial number set IF every number was used
691 last ones from left over parts

7360 plus the few custom orders in that caliber prior to the first batch

So, very doubtful there were 7500 Triple locks made in 455 and you have only had 1.2% of them show up on this thread.

The attrition rate in war probably accounts for a lot of them. May those guns and the men lost to wars all rest in peace

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by RS2000CUSTOM

Due to forum restriction I was only able to post 5 pics at a time - there are 3 posts with pics attached

I notice on page 1 #1406 has been added but may need updating to show it has markings as seen on the pics

Yes! I will update it when I get home to my computer.

[RS2000CUSTOM]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Yes! I will update it when I get home to my computer.

Whilst I cannot take pictures of gun myself as it still with dealer I have edited the pics to show what markings I can see - hope you can decipher them

[Hondo44]

RS2000CUSTOM;

Updated today.

[mrcvs]

Correction to 73497. Shipped 29 Dec 1917 to Shapleigh & Company, (Shapleigh Hardware) St Louis, Missouri.

[BC38]

Thank you for sharing such a beautiful example of S&W workmanship RS2000CUSTOM. I hope your government overlords will deign you worthy of being the next curator of this fantastic example of S&W craftsmanship. There are MANY of us who would be more than happy to pay the price to add this one to our collections.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

Correction to 73497. Shipped 29 Dec 1917 to Shapleigh & Company, (Shapleigh Hardware) St Louis, Missouri.

Thx, I’ll correct that.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

Correction to 73497. Shipped 29 Dec 1917 to Shapleigh & Company, (Shapleigh Hardware) St Louis, Missouri.

Done. Thx!

[RS2000CUSTOM]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

1406 - NO S&W or CAL ROLLMARK

Excuse my ignorance but what is meant by the above ?

[Hondo44]

It’s not marked SMITH & WESSON or the .455 caliber on the barrel.

[RS2000CUSTOM]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

1406 - NO S&W or CAL ROLLMARK

Excuse my ignorance but what is meant by the above ?

Originally Posted by Hondo44

It’s not marked SMITH & WESSON or the .455 caliber on the barrel.

That's what I thought it meant

So it appears that when I post pics you may not be seeing them on your thread as it clearly states both Smith and Wesson and the calibre on the barrel ??

SEE PICS BELOW

or am I missing something here ???

[Hondo44]

Dave,
Look at the barrel photo in post number 454 above. That’s the roll mark I’m documenting among other facts from all guns reported in this thread.

The .455 on the gun you posted is the British proof mark, not a factory marking. I hope that helps and thx for asking.

[RS2000CUSTOM]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Dave,

Look at the barrel photo in post number 454 above. That’s the roll mark I’m documenting among other facts from all guns reported in this thread.

The .455 on the gun you posted is the British proof mark, not a factory marking. I hope that helps and thx for asking.

OK now I understand

Is it likely that post #454 is of a commercial firearm with "commercial" markings - whereas my pics are of a S&W supplied to British Government

[StrawHat]

Post #1 explains the system being used to determine which “type” the revolver fits.

Type being a collector’s classification and not a factory designation.

Kevin

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by RS2000CUSTOM

OK now I understand

Is it likely that post #454 is of a commercial firearm with "commercial" markings - whereas my pics are of a S&W supplied to British Government

You're correct. However, the barrel roll mark is stamped (or not stamped) long before the gun is sold and therefore not relative to how or to who the revolver was sold.

I started the thread to identify the factory patterns for roll marking the barrel based on serial numbers. Of course many members who posted their revolvers like you supplied photos and other details like shipping dates, shipping destination, etc., as well, that I was also able to document.

[Gratian]

I follow this thread often, but have a question about one of the entries. You have "7827 - NO CAL ROLLMARK, in Germany" listed in category 0, but this serial number is listed by N&J as one of the 666 that were converted for the British government from the .44 hand ejector series. Should it be in category 1 or did I miss something in this thread?

[Hondo44]

Welcome to the forum.

I believe that is a typo. Good eye! I’ll check it out and move it to category 1.
Thanks!

[Gratian]

Welcome to the forum.

Thank you. I just realized after reading your post that this is my first post after lurking for over two years. I have a handful of these .455 British hand ejectors and kept links and info of several more that I will start posting for your list.

The first two are from your list 1 “44 Hand Ejector-1st Model” Triple Lock, factory converted to .455 Mk II cartridge:

2844- (Online auction) One of the 60ish duplicate serial numbers. Military acceptance/property stamps. Lanyard swivel drilled through serial number on butt and has serial number restamped under the left grip. Also, marked for "sold out of stores." No "Smith & Wesson" or ".455" on barrel. Shipped October 21, 1914.

Smith & Wesson .44 Hand Ejector .455 #2844 | Proxibid

9316-(S&W Forum Post) Military acceptance/property stamps. Lanyard swivel drilled through serial number on butt and has serial number re-stamped under the left grip. No "Smith & Wesson" or ".455" on barrel. Shipped October 21, 1914.

.455 triple lock

[Gratian]

Production version 2 “455 Mark II Hand Ejector-1st Model” Triple Lock

2130- Military acceptance/property stamps. Also, marked for "sold out of stores." No "Smith & Wesson" or ".455" on barrel.

4018- Military acceptance/property stamps. Also, marked for "sold out of stores." No "Smith & Wesson" or ".455" on barrel. Shipped December 30, 1914.

[dickydalton]

9852 No caliber marking other than non-original 45 A.R. on left side under the Smith & Wesson on the barrel. Large S&W logo on right frame plate and May, 94 and others on top of the 6 1/2" barrel. British proof marks on every chamber and the rest of the gun. SN leads me to believe 1915 date.

[Gratian]

Two more to add to the category 1. (“44 Hand Ejector-1st Model” Triple Lock, factory converted to .455 Mk II cartridge) list. Both of the are from the commercial shipment to Wilkinson Sword, Ltd. on October 1, 1914, per Neal & Jinks page 203,

9943- British commercial proofs. One of the 123 shipped to Wilkinson Sword, Ltd. on October 1, 1914. Lanyard swivel drilled through serial number on butt and has serial number restamped under the left grip. No "Smith & Wesson" or ".455" on barrel.


9961- (Online auction) British commercial proofs. One of the 123 shipped to Wilkinson Sword, Ltd. on October 1, 1914. Lanyard swivel drilled through serial number on butt. No "Smith & Wesson" or ".455" on barrel.

Smith & Wesson .44 HE Triple Lock .455 Caliber Revolver | Rock Island Auction

[Hondo44]

Gratian,

Thanks for all of those serial numbers, especially those in Categories 1. and 2. Don't get those very often!

[OutAtTheEdge]

#11516 2nd Model HE, crossed penants, converted to .45 Colt, no caliber mark, SN on butt not drilled through.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by OutAtTheEdge

#11516 2nd Model HE, crossed penants, converted to .45 Colt, no caliber mark, SN on butt not drilled through.

Thank you.

[M_conrad_0311]

Fantastic work. I am not sure if you happen to have this one in the database. 74115. There is no caliber roll mark, but S&W is on the barrel. Factory chambered and special ordered in 45 Colt.

[ENNE-FRAME]

Located in Reggio Emilia Italy
Serial 60105
listed on a used firearms sales website

Armi corte | Armiusate.it | SMITH & WESSON MOD. MARK I HAND EJECTOR CAL. 455, Armi Usate, Armi Nuove, vendita, acquisto

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by M_conrad_0311

Fantastic work. I am not sure if you happen to have this one in the database. 74115. There is no caliber roll mark, but S&W is on the barrel. Factory chambered and special ordered in 45 Colt.

That’s a rare one and the letter clearly documents that. I’ll add it to the database which only has one other if I remember correctly; see the first post in this thread for serial numbers in the 45 Colt range given in the letter.

That letter is a little old. The 455 models were chambered for the older and longer MKI cartridge so it will shoot both although the newer MKII cartridge was the intended round for use in WWI.

The 2nd Model 455 revolver was also referred to by the British as the MKII model and stamped II on the left side of the frame.

The volumes of 455 first models and 2nd models produced have been revised.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by ENNE-FRAME

Located in Reggio Emilia Italy
Serial 60105
listed on a used firearms sales website

Armi corte | Armiusate.it | SMITH & WESSON MOD. MARK I HAND EJECTOR CAL. 455, Armi Usate, Armi Nuove, vendita, acquisto

Thank you!

[22hipower]

One more to add to the list, 50091, 2nd Model MKII, .455 on left side of barrel and 45 SW stamped in different font above the .455. Converted to 45 Colt by filing the recoil shield and extending chambers. Proof stamps on each cylinder chamber (although can't see an SN on the cylinder). Gun is engraved so original proof/acceptance stamps are hard to find. Barrel has SN stamped on bottom as well as a British proof (?) stamp. Back of grip is stamped S.J.F .52 which I suppose could be a unit and rack number or maybe the initials of the engraver and the year 1952. I'll post pictures in a separate thread at some point.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

[Hondo44]

Jeff,

Thank you, added to database.

[RS2000CUSTOM]

#69937 - For Sale here in UK - May be worth adding to list

Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector

[22hipower]

Originally Posted by RS2000CUSTOM

#69937 - For Sale here in UK - May be worth adding to list

Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector

Interesting that the description claims it is one of the Canadian contract guns and alludes to those being 45 Colt yet the picture shows the barrel with a .455 caliber stamp.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

[Wiregrassguy]

Jeff, I read it as the Canadians bought a small number of .455 caliber guns from S&W, relative to what the British bought, and a few in .45 Colt. This is one of the .455s.

[22hipower]

Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy

Jeff, I read it as the Canadians bought a small number of .455 caliber guns from S&W, relative to what the British bought, and a few in .45 Colt. This is one of the .455s.

Agree, and clearly the case. The reference to the "small number" seemed to suggest the one offered was one of those in 45 Colt; I just read too much in to the "small number" description. Sure would like to find one of those though.

"The Canadian government purchased 14,500 directly from S&W, in addition the Canadians bought a total of 724 revolvers chambering the .45 Colt cartridge.

This is one of the small number that Canada purchased, evidence of this is the crown-over-30 stamp on the butt"

Jeff
SWCA #1457

[RS2000CUSTOM]

Details of #21186

Smith & Wesson MkII Hand Ejector