an old friend came over to my house yesterday. he is in bad health. he is a retired S.L.E.D agent. "SC law enforcement division" he was telling me some stories, one he told me he had a friend back in the day that wore 2 nickel 4in 38/44 HD revolvers in a shoulder rig. he said his name was joe Sutherland. he was not SLED but worked for the Charleston SC sheriff department. he said in joes car he also carried a 30 carbine and had a few banana magazines. he said joe was a crack shot with those 38/44s or the carbine. he said they used to go down to the beach and shoot fiddler crabs off a pier! I wonder if that would be considered wrong nowadays? anyway do any of you fellers know anyone who carried these legendary revolvers or maybe you carried one yourself? I sure would like to here some tales about them,,,,,,,,,,,

Yeah. My dad. Military police. WWII.

My Dad started in 1938......... he started out with a 6" Colt New Service (worked over by King's) in .357 magnum........ and an Indian Motorcycle.

He would have been 101 this year.......

Are you sure? I don't believe the US military ever bought any .38/44s. These are .38 specials built on a .44 frame.

However, the military did buy a bunch of .38 special Victory models. Many of these went to the Navy and Marine Corps.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Ex-LEO 38/44 from Buffalo, TX, with its original holster. Shipped Nov
1955.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

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Regards,
Bruce

When I worked in the Austin Police garage I Knew a Sargent that carried a 4 inch Nickled 38/44. He said it never really shot to point of aim. He said that he and some fellow officers got in a shoot out in a hallway and he was trying to get real small behind one of those old brass fire extinguishers and the shot that finished the firefight was one he was aiming center mass and hit the shooter in the groin. I think he still has a APD 38/44. He retired about 20 years ago.
SWCA 892

Yes. Back in the late 1950s-early 1960s period I knew a local Ohio Highway Patrol officer who carried one. As I remember it had fixed sights, probably a .38/44 HD. I don't believe it was unusual for a cop to carry a .38/44 back then.

I went to work for a small town police dept in the mid 60's. The town was the county seat of the county in which I grew up, and it was "town" for just about every one in that county. Everyone knew almost every one else there. My parents had lived there since the 1920's, so everyone knew whose son I was. Couldn't get away with nuthin' in those days!!!

The small PD owned two revolvers that could be issued and carried until the new officer was able to get his own. I was presented with an "old" 38/44 HD with a five inch barrel and a well worn swivel style duty holster and Sam Browne belt. That five inch barrel made the gun a bit long to carry comfortably while sitting in the howl cars, but the swivel made it much more comfortable. The safety strap that fit behind the hammer spur and snapped in place firmly made the revolver pretty secure in the old soft holster that was typical of the time.

I thought it was a pretty dandy revolver, and in truth, it was! It was pretty much finish challenged, having been carried for a time by several different folks and not owned by any individual, so it did not get much TLC during it's lifetime of service. It had never been allowed to rust, but the blueing was prettty well worn and there were lots of shiny spots on the high points and barrel. But the action on that old revolver was smooth and slick as glass with a coat of snot on it! In spite of my lack of much experience with a handgun, I was surprised how well I could shoot it. I also took the liberty of carefully, and with a bit of advise from someone who knew more than I did about removing the sideplate and cylinder from the frame, doing just that. I gave it a good cleaning and lubrication. That big old cylinder would spin like a clock when I was done!

I carried this revolver for a bit over a year before I finally found a one owner used Model 19 with a 4" barrel for sale. Those were scarce as hen's teeth in those days and everybody wanted one! I paid over a month's wages to own that Model 19! ($150.00 as I recall). Took me a while to save up the money for a new Sam Brown rig with a suitable holster to carry that Model 19, which cost me half as much as the Model 19. But it was basket weave stamped, and included a handcuff case, a 12 loop cartridge slide, and four belt keepers to keep the rig in place on my waist belt. When I showed up for work all decked out with all the new gear, my chest stuck out pretty far! I was still green as a gourd, but at least I now sorta looked like I might know what I was doing!!

But you know what? I never fired that Model 19 any better and sometimes worse than that old 38/44 HD with the fixed sights! And it took me a long time and some help to get the action on that Model 19 to come close to matching the action on the older gun. I wish I had that old gun today! Best I could do was to buy one similar to it in later years to take it's place. The one I have now is a bit nicer looking than that old first issue revolver, and it also has a very nice smooth action and shoots very well. Makes me smile and remember those early years every time I see and hold it! Great memories for me.

I have two sons. One will receive the 4" Model 19 that I have owned for many years. It was not the one I carried for a great many years on duty, since I could not own it when it was returned to stock, but it is just like it! The other son will get the 38/44 HD. Both know the story behind them and that these two revolvers are very special to me. They have assured me they will not be swapping them off for anything else. They each have sons who have already indicated that they are looking forward to someday being the proud owners of these two revolvers. That's about all this old man can hope for!

This story is about two revolvers, but the 38/44 is/was an integral part of my gun carrying career. It was the first, and it was a dandy (IMO), and my memories of that first one are great. There can only be one first one, regardless of what comes later!

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So long ... Ken

Back in the mid 60s, my hometown PD sold off several of its old duty weapons. Several Victory models, at least 1 Outdoorsman and a couple of Heavy Duty models. I handles then in the shop they were consigned to. I was young and wanted a 15 or a 19. Who wanted to carry an old clunker like those guns?! The young cops on the PD felt the same way as they had opted for 10s, 15s and 19s.

Growing up, "Cops" were my Heroes. One was a "walking beat" officer who carried a S&W HD .38/44 5" nickel plated. The second "Hero" was a patrol sgt. who carried a S&W HD .38/44 4" blued. This .38/44 had an almost smooth bore as it had been shot LOTS as it was the only firearm this officer ever owned

In this order the Washington State Patrol's issue revolvers were 6 1/2" .44 Special fixed sight N frames, 6" or 6 1/2" .38 Special Heavy Dutys, then 6" Model 28s. A patrolman who could recount adventures with his Heavy Duty would be a very old man.

The Austin TX PD received the first shipment of Smith/Wesson 38/44 Heavy Duty marked "Austin Police Department from the factory on 6/3/1952.

According to info on this forum a total of 249 38/44 HD revolvers were shipped to the APD.

Retired APD officer and forum member ringo1597 is a go to guy and avid collector of APD firearms.

Larry,aka ringo1597 usually has a few tables at the Dripping Springs TX gun shows.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Kthom was telling how smooth the 38/44 he used was. I have a smith long action 4in 32WCF made about 1907, it is the smoothest smith I have ever picked up,,,,,,,,,

I have a ca. early 1950s 4" .38/44 HD which I was told (by its previous owner) was a former cop gun. It has the typical cop gun "worn a lot, shot a little" appearance, so I don't doubt it. The action is smooth and tight. For me, it's heavier than I would want if I had to haul it around on my hip every day. No champ at grouping, but it's plenty good enough for closer work. And great if you had to use it to massage some BG's skull.

There was an old Brand Inspector that came out to the ranch when we were shipping that I'm pretty sure carried a Heavy Duty. His name was Marshall McPhee. He became a Brand Inspector after having retired as a US Deputy Marshal.

I "think" the Colorado State Patrol was issued 38/44s until they traded them in for Pythons.

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Eccentric old coot

While they were never a police force before they switched to Model 15s Boeing's security guards were issued 4" Heavy Dutys. Ca. 1980 the Boeing Heavy Dutys were common used revolvers in King County gun stores. They were stamped BAC for Boeing Aircraft Corporation.

Please elaborate. Not an issued gun.

Where and how was he able to carry it? What was his rank?

Col. Charles Askins wore a Colt New Service in .38 Special and probably fired .38-44 ammo in it. He had been the chief firearms instructor for the USBP and chose that gun for them.

I asked why he didn't adopt the .38-44 HD and he said the S&W salesmen were snobby elitists and he hated them.

I think TX highway patrol had the HD before they got the Highway Patrolman/M-28. Last I heard, they now use SIG P-226's in .357 SIG.

In the early 1950's, there was a TV show called, Tales of the Texas Rangers and comic books about it. They used either HD's or .44 Military M-1950. Those guns differ only in caliber, so hard to tell which.

Real Rangers used mainly Colt .45 autos pr pretty much any Colt or S&W revolver they wanted. Many carried engraved and plated guns. I wondered how they afforded them on their modest salaries.

I just recently had this one lettered and it shipped to the City of Janesville Police Department, Janesville Wisconsin. But I don’t know any history on it. Wish I did.

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Get off my lawn!

I own the gun pictured which was carried by Sheriff Albert Thomas in Yellowstone County (Billings), Montana.

Attached Images

pix422564373.jpg (71.1 KB, 91 views)

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Dennis
SWCA #2409, SWHF #353

Wow, that is beautiful.

Personally? No. But on here I do. Check out post by DABNEY. Carried a 5 inch HD on the job till last year.

Would really be interested to know what ammo was used/issued for those agencies that actually used the HD's and OD's.
Knowing how most government entities at best just hit the high spots in regards to specifics on equipment, and with 'regular' .38 Spl. being cheaper than .38-44 'High Speed' or 'Super Speed' ammo.
Of course, this is info that has likely faded into the past......

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

As I posted above Dad had a Colt NS .357..... but I recall he had a fair number of boxes of .38 High Speed and Super "something" ( he reloaded for the pistol team and used the empty boxes over and over).

There was, I remember; a real prejudice against officers carrying .357s (and hollow points) in urban/suburban areas into the late 70s early 80s...... but seemed like anything .38 was "OK"......but most folks didn't know ammo ...... so old 38/44 and other souped up .38s were good to go.

If you bought it, how come you had to turn it in?

I own a pre war 5" that I purchased several years ago in Grand Junction from an old fella who had been the Editor of the Iola KS newspaper and a personal friend of the chief of Police there. He told me that he purchased the HD from the Chief many years ago and that the gun had been owned by two Chief at the PD. The letter states that the HD was shipped to the Iola KS PD attn. Chief of Police O.V. Kelby. It was shipped Febuary 12, 1937. One day earlier and it would have been a birthday gun but a few years later, of course.

Weimar,
I wasn't clear in telling my tale. The first M-19 that I purchased was not the one turned in. I still owned that first one at the time I was issued an M-19 by the State Police Department that I worked for most of my LEO career. I was allowed to carry a personal weapon with approval there, but there was no need to carry and expose my personal one to the wear and tear of duty and all that firing after the State issued me a brand new one. The one turned in was the issued one, and there was no provision for me to be able to purchase that revolver even after the transition was made to semi auto duty weapons. I would have gladly purchased it if there had been any way to do so!

My first one was a nickel plated revolver since that was the only one I could find to buy at the time. I did not prefer nickel over the blued models, and I still prefer blued ones. Sometime during my career, a small town marshal in my area of patrol found out that I owned the nickel plated one and he really wanted to buy it. He finally offered me more than I was willing to turn down for it, and considerably more than I paid for it when I bought it, even though that price was pretty high at the time due to the scarcity of M-19's on the market. I later found a good used M-19 of the same general issue date as my first one and purchased it. I still own it today! I also eventually found the same dash model with a 2.5" barrel and bought it, so I'm pretty well covered these days! I didn't carry either one of these on duty, but they are fair representatives of the one I did carry for so long. I can honestly say that the one I was issued and carried for so long and shot so much never let me down in any way during all that time. I wish it were in my possession today!

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So long ... Ken

Muley Gil. Yes, pretty sure. His memory now is not so great as he is 95 but he told me about that more than once 40+ years ago when I first started getting into firearms. He was pretty definite about it. A S&W large frame .38 built on a .44 frame. Doesn't mean he was right, but he was pretty definite about it. Said he much preferred it to the .45 auto.

.38/44 Heavy Duty Texas DPS

I think this old thread fits this discussion.

cb

I started my career 7/1/69. We had about 35 sworn officers and two of them, both hired back in the 30's still carried the 38/44.

I went to work for the Houston P.D. in 1972 and at that time many of the officers hired after WW 2 carried 38/44 revolvers. These were all private purchase weapons and not issued. The 38/44 were standard until the introduction of the Combat Magnum in the 1950's. In 1972, I was required to have a S&W model 19 and carried that for a number of years until I started carrying a 1911.

As a side note, when we began a mandatory firearms qualification in 1981, I was a firearms instructor and discovered that many of these " old timers" were still carrying the same " high speed" ammo that they purchased in the 1940's and early '50's.

The only thing I can contribute is a picture of a 1947 5 inch HD that was cut down to just a shade over 3 inches with a very crude front sight. I’d like to think it was a duty gun personalized to meet the carry needs of its owner.

Texas Highway Patrol officers were once issued nickel plated .38-44 HD. I went to work in late 59. There were not quite enough of the newer blue 28s to go around. I was issued a nickel .38-44 HD. Some time later, I was issued a new Colt Trooper. Later, my Lieutenant and I traded. He had a little used 28. We were both happy. He had a little bit lighter revolver and I had a better revolver.

Jack

The PD I was on back in the 60's had an officer who never fired or cleaned his gun in the 20 years he was there. Cartridges in the gun were green.

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Eccentric old coot

I hear that, Iggy! Some of the guys sure didn't spend much time cleaning or shooting their revolvers. We used the 60 round PPC course for our quarterly qualifications. We were issued .38 Spec wadcutters for that purpose. We were also issued some of the lubaloy Winchester 158 grain soft lead semi wadcutters (or the similar Remington brand, whichever offered the lowest bid price!) in .357 mag. I decided that I was going to require the officers in my district to fire the mag loads in their revolver plus the 12 loads in their loop slide on their belts a couple of times a year prior to the regular qualification with the wads. That was not a popular decision in some cases!

In the beginning, some of those loads were years old, plus the brass cased ones had been polished more or less with Brasso to cut down on the green stuff present otherwise at inspection time. I noticed one of the officers brass cartridges in his loop loader were shiney as a new dollar. After he fired the six in his revolver and began to try to reload from his loops, he began to fumble. I called a cease fire and went over to see what was going on. His cartridges would not chamber in the cylinder! Upon closer inspection, after he had polished his brass nicely, he had given each round a nice coating of his wife's clear fingernail polish and let them dry (to keep them from tarnishing again! Now I knew why he complained so loudly about firing those rounds!) When I explained to him and all others present why his rounds would not chamber due to the now excess diameter of the cases, most of the color left his face. I asked the needless question to make sure everybody got it, "what would you have done if you had needed a reload with these rounds?" A picture was worth a thousand words! At least from that point forward, I knew that some of these guys were not carrying rounds that were who knows how old or contaminated from Brasso, etc. It's the little things that will trip us up!

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So long ... Ken

My understanding is that the original purpose for nickel plating of cartridge cases was to prevent brass corrosion from being kept in leather belt loops more so than for cosmetic reasons.

Yeah, the PD that I worked for had officers that carried their purty green catidges in the 12 loop slide!

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

This guy had clear nail polish on his spare ammo in the slide loop too. It wouldn't go in the cylinder.

I had to pound the cartridges out of the cylinder in his gun to clean it while dispatching on a Sunday night. He was the only officer on patrol and he sat and watched me clean it.. He retired about a month later.

When I went to work for that PD, we went out to a gravel pit and fired 12 issued rounds through our privately purchased .38 revolvers. The Sgt. handed us our badges and said congratulations, you're a cop.

I worked there 3 years and never fired another round of required training ammo.. I did a lot of shooting on my own, shot running Jackrabbits with a .22 revolver for beer money, but as far as the City was concerned, with those 12 shots, I was a trained pistoleer.

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Eccentric old coot