Info help on a Heavy Duty for my Son.

[Iggy]

My son has been offered an old .38. It's pre-war with service grips. Serial # 45727




What can you tell me about the gun that I can tell him? Name etched on the side plate is Roy Byrd

What's it worth?

[weatherby]

To buy it fast...............before someone notices it has an ejector rod shroud.

[Iggy]

Yeah, I just noticed that too.. Whole nother ball game.

[Jetman22]

Please explain about the ejector rod shroud.
Thanks


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[Iggy]

K frame M&Ps don't have the shroud protecting the ejector rod.

N frame 38/44 Heavy Duty's do.

[Capt. F.]

Originally Posted by Iggy

My son has been offered an old .38. It's pre-war with service grips. Serial # 45727 A Heavy Duty perhaps?




What can you tell me about the gun that I can tell him? Name etched on the side plate is Roy Byrd

What's it worth?

Consider adopting me?

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Capt. F.

Consider adopting me?

Can you whip a 30 year career Marine? IF so I'll take it into consideration.

[cmj8591]

That gun looks like a 5", pre war, 38/44 heavy duty. It is an N frame and is supposed to have an ejector rod shroud. I'm guessing that it was made mid to late 30's. There are some real HD experts on this forum and I'm sure one of them will give you some more information. It is a very nice gun and has a lot of collector appeal.

[Iggy]

When we started talking, it sounded like an old M&P. After posting the pics I realized it was a HD..

Picture changed a wee mite with that fact.

[Wiregrassguy]

The name engraved on it that's going to knock the value down some unless it's somebody famous. Might even take it from collector down to Shooter.

Guy

[Nightowl]

Looks like a mid 30s Heavy Duty, no signs of a reblue, I would guess that grips are original, but I don't know specifics like others do.

I have an RM with serial 46,5xx that shipped in August 1935, about 1000 numbers later.

I think the 5 inch barrel was pretty common.

Very nice looking HD for as old as it is. If reasonably priced, its a go!

[Capt. F.]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Can you whip a 30 year career Marine? IF so I'll take it into consideration.

Hell I’d be lucky to win against an 8 year old Cub Scout.

[Iggy]

A Marine buddy is going to bring it to work in New Orleans where my Son is stationed tomorrow.

I guess we'll learn some more then.

Thanks for the help folks.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Capt. F.

Hell I’d be lucky to win against an 8 year old Cub Scout.

You and I would be a good match then..

[crsides]

Well, I happen to know a guy named Roy Byrd.

Charlie

[Muley Gil]

There is a whole coop full of Byrds in the Virginias.

[montezumaz]

Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson 4th Edition, Pages 180-181
.38/44 Heavy Duty (prewar)
VG $1250
Good $850
Fair $600
I sure do like the overall firearm condition, especially the grips, being 80+/- years old.

[Iggy]

There's an interesting Byrd in New Orleans in the right time frame. That's where my Son is..

[weatherby]

Lots of long haired jazz guys down there.

[Iggy]

Yup, even back in the 30's

[montezumaz]

Originally Posted by weatherby

Lots of long haired jazz guys down there.

Henry Roeland "Roy" Byrd (December 19, 1918 – January 30, 1980), better known as Professor Longhair, was a New Orleans blues singer and pianist. He was active in two distinct periods, first in the heyday of early rhythm and blues and later in the resurgence of interest in traditional jazz after the founding of the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival in 1970. His piano style has been described as "instantly recognizable, combining rumba, mambo, and calypso."

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by montezumaz

Henry Roeland "Roy" Byrd (December 19, 1918 – January 30, 1980), better known as Professor Longhair, was a New Orleans blues singer and pianist. He was active in two distinct periods, first in the heyday of early rhythm and blues and later in the resurgence of interest in traditional jazz after the founding of the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival in 1970. His piano style has been described as "instantly recognizable, combining rumba, mambo, and calypso."

Yup, Dave Keith came up with that cat. Fits the time frame for sure.

Thanks for the help.

[DWalt]

It is definitely in the 1935 manufacturing range. On my list is SN 458xx, a HD which shipped in 7/35. If Henry Roeland "Roy" Byrd was born on December 19, 1918, it seems unlikely he would have been the original owner as he would have been only about 16-17 years old. But of course he could have come by it somewhat later. I'll assume you know what the .38-44 cartridge is, but if not, it is just a more heavily loaded version of the standard .38 S&W Special cartridge having a MV of about 1100 ft/sec. The greater mass of the N-frame revolver helps tame the recoil of that heavier loading. The .38-44 cartridge has not been factory loaded since the early 1970s, but this revolver will handle any .38 Special loading (including the +P) just fine. Sometimes these are encountered with their chambers lengthened to accept .357 Magnum cartridges, but if so, it was not done by S&W. There was also a more DeLuxe version of the HD called the .38/44 Outdoorsman, the principal difference being that the Outdoorsman had an adjustable target-type rear sight.

[Plain Old Dave]

Pretty gun, but the premium for an excessively large and heavy 38 baffles me.

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[wheelgun610]

Originally Posted by Iggy

..... What can you tell me about the gun that I can tell him?

I sure hope you told him to just buy the damned thing. Only thing I see 'wrong' is that the stocks might've had some varnish or some other finish applied to 'em. That could probably be rectified fairly easily with a bath of mineral spirits.

I've got one that looks like it, but has its factory original magnas - and it's in the 49000 serial range - ca. 1937.

Mark

[Iggy]

DWalt,
Thanks. I think my son can read these posts now. Your info will be helpful and informative.
I have a couple of 38/44 Outdoorsmans. One a 34 vintage.

Wheelgun 610.
I agree the stocks look to have been refinished.
If he gets the gun a letter will be order.

[Kurusu]

Originally Posted by Iggy

DWalt,
Thanks. I think my son can read these posts now. Your info will be helpful and informative.
I have a couple of 38/44 Outdoorsmans. One a 34 vintage.

Wheelgun 610.
I agree the stocks look to have been refinished.
If he gets the gun a letter will be order.

Hope your son gets it.

That's not just another .38. A reloader can do some very interesting things with the right powder.

[Iggy]

Kurusu,
Unless the seller's price is outrageous, I think one of us will wind up with it.

[Kurusu]

Originally Posted by Iggy

K frame M&Ps don't have the shroud protecting the ejector rod.

N frame 38/44 Heavy Duty's do.

AH! But my two only N frames, so far, don't have an ejector shroud either.

[Iggy]

Yeah, I have one of those too.

[The Gila Bender]

An HD with (number matching, hopefully) big medallion service stocks, 1935-ish? That's a keeper, buy it!

[Texas Star]

Only flaw I see is those scratches/holster wear around the muzzle. But the photo suggests that Byrd's name is faint. Could the gun have been re-blued over the name? The photo isn't sharp enough for me to guess about a re-blue.

I guess this Roy Byrd was sort of the equivalent to Harry Connick, Jr. then, except he played piano instead of singing. Connick is married to former VS model Jill Goodacre. I hope Byrd was as lucky in his choice of a mate.

Wonder if Roy was related to Rear Admiral Richard Byrd, the famed explorer? I found an old Zeiss binocular ad from the 1930's, about Byrd using their glasses. The Roosevelt brothers also used Zeiss products.

BTW, animal trapper and adventurer Frank Buck also wore a .38-44 HD. It could have been a .44 Special, but I lean toward a HD. He later bought a .357 Magnum. But that was after WW II and he died in 1950. He wore the .38-44 longer. I'm pretty sure he got that gun because it had a reputation of penetrating well in large animals, especially when used with FMJ bullets.

[Iggy]

Now we have to wait a week.. Seller forgot to bring it.. Won't be back until next week.

[Eddie Southgate]

Originally Posted by Texas Star

Only flaw I see is those scratches/holster wear around the muzzle. But the photo suggests that Byrd's name is faint. Could the gun have been re-blued over the name? The photo isn't sharp enough for me to guess about a re-blue.

I guess this Roy Byrd was sort of the equivalent to Harry Connick, Jr. then, except he played piano instead of singing. Connick is married to former VS model Jill Goodacre. I hope Byrd was as lucky in his choice of a mate.

Wonder if Roy was related to Rear Admiral Richard Byrd, the famed explorer? I found an old Zeiss binocular ad from the 1930's, about Byrd using their glasses. The Roosevelt brothers also used Zeiss products.

BTW, animal trapper and adventurer Frank Buck also wore a .38-44 HD. It could have been a .44 Special, but I lean toward a HD. He later bought a .357 Magnum. But that was after WW II and he died in 1950. He wore the .38-44 longer. I'm pretty sure he got that gun because it had a reputation of penetrating well in large animals, especially when used with FMJ bullets.

The Roy Bird that was a Piano player might have been a tad dark to be kin to Admiral Bird .

[Eddie Southgate]

Roy Bird and Admiral Bird . Don't see any family resemblance .

[BillyMagg]

Originally Posted by Eddie Southgate

Roy Bird and Admiral Bird . Don't see any family resemblance .

Eddie, Eddie, no doubt they both wore very dark glasses dude! is your name Southgate, or are you a Southgate Weatherby Fan?? LOL

any way, I grew up at Walter Hill, Tenn.,,, yep, four letters and a period.. I don't suppose you're familiar with the old mill damn there?? loved that place

my Dad was an IP in the C-130A, B, and E model,,, I crashed one of USAF's first flight simulators there at Sewart AFB, Tenn. when I was 9 years old..

now I'm just a damned old Yankee! well not really, but don't tell my neighbors that the "South is gonna rise again", they're all kinda jumpy anyway! LOL

so Iggy, we gonna have to wait another week eh??

[Iggy]

so Iggy, we gonna have to wait another week eh??


Yup, the pucker factor is goin' up....

[Eddie Southgate]

Originally Posted by BillyMagg

Eddie, Eddie, no doubt they both wore very dark glasses dude! is your name Southgate, or are you a Southgate Weatherby Fan?? LOL

any way, I grew up at Walter Hill, Tenn.,,, yep, four letters and a period.. I don't suppose you're familiar with the old mill damn there?? loved that place

my Dad was an IP in the C-130A, B, and E model,,, I crashed one of USAF's first flight simulators there at Sewart AFB, Tenn. when I was 9 years old..

now I'm just a damned old Yankee! well not really, but don't tell my neighbors that the "South is gonna rise again", they're all kinda jumpy anyway! LOL

so Iggy, we gonna have to wait another week eh??

Yup, I'm a real live Southgate . Not really a Weatherby fan. My dad was stationed a Sewart several times , same name as mine. Depending on when your dad was there he may have known him . He retired in the early 80's and moved back to the Lavergne/ Smyrna area and was an SRO at the local TWRA Range for a number of years prior to his death in August of 2017.

Have not been to the Mill Dam in Walter Hill , might have to check it out , always looking for a good spot to put a fly rod to work !

Eddie

[Iggy]

Well, he got it. Got a good price too.

[Kurusu]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Well, he got it. Got a good price too.

Good. Thanks for the update.

[S&WsRsweet]

Cool Iggy now are you and he going to shoot that HD and let us know how it does ? I guess you know the rules once you post the picture of a firearm on this forum it sorta becomes communal property so it is our business to keep tabs .

[JSR III]

Pretty gun, but the premium for an excessively large and heavy 38 baffles me.

Kinda like why would you buy a Corvette when a Volkswagen will get you to the 7-11 just the same?

The 38/44 was S&W's first effort at juicing up the .38 M&P that eventually led to the development of the .357 magnum. For some collector/shooters, owning a .38 M&P, an HD and a Registered or non Registered Magnum is just part of what we do as gun nuts.

Kind of like why a coin collector has a 1935 penny but also has one from 1936.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by S&WsRsweet

Cool Iggy now are you and he going to shoot that HD and let us know how it does ? I guess you know the rules once you post the picture of a firearm on this forum it sorta becomes communal property so it is our business to keep tabs .

He's a Marine stationed in New Orleans.. He will no doubt bring it along the next time he visits.

I'll have some 38/44 loads cooked up for sure. I have a 38/44 Outdoorsman a year older than his HD.

Old Elmer's 38/44 loads make that thing shoot like a one handed carbine.

There may be some cold beverage wagers made on which one shoots the best.

[Kurusu]

Originally Posted by Iggy

He's a Marine stationed in New Orleans.. He will no doubt bring it along the next time he visits.

I'll have some 38/44 loads cooked up for sure. I have a 38/44 Outdoorsman a year older than this HD.

Old Elmer's 38/44 loads make that thing shoot like a one handed carbine.

There may be some cold beverage wagers made on which one shoots the best.

Considering the fixed sights on your son's new revolver(Yupeee!!!), it's only fair to consider grouping only.


Edit. Your's is beautiful. I'm glad I am not an envious person..

[Iggy]

Thank you Sir. You don't think an old man would stack the deck a little do you?

[Kurusu]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Thank you Sir. You don't think an old man would stack the deck a little do you?

One part of me says "unspeakable".

The other part says " Never give a sucker an even chance".


Take your pick.:

But... Remember blood is thicker than water.

[1Aspenhill]

45726 was shipped 6 Mar 1936, so it may be in the same shipment to OK Highway Patrol.

[Iggy]

Wow, that's interesting. Maybe my son will follow up on that. It's just a shooter but it still mighht make a letter worth while.
Thanks for the info.

[Texas Star]

Originally Posted by 1Aspenhill

45726 was shipped 6 Mar 1936, so it may be in the same shipment to OK Highway Patrol.

Does anyone else here realize that that date is the 100th anniversary of the fall of the Alamo?

[Iggy]

Now that you mention it, it sounds familiar.