When did S&W start using Made in USA. Was it all guns?

The order to stamp all revolvers on frame "Made in U.S.A." was issued in May, 1922 by H. Wesson---and implemented as soon as practicable thereafter.

Ralph Tremaine

As an aside, it is not uncommon to find guns shipped into 1923 without the stamp.

How about 1930?

If the serial dates it to 1930 and it has no MADE IN U.S.A. stamp, that should raise suspicions.

It is always a possibility that the gun slipped through accidentally and wasn’t stamped, but I would not assume that until I had positively excluded a refinish with removal of markings, which is much more likely.

If a pre 1922 gun was returned for a factory refinish they were stamped.
I believe the practice was stopped in the 60s.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

As I stated in a recent thread, in my database of the .22/32 HFT's although the order came down in May of 1922, the first gun to show up in my database was shipped 10/9/1923.

Is it possible that a gun from 1930 doesn't have that roll stamp, absolutely. If the roll stamp broke one day, S&W continued to make guns, they would not stop production and send everyone home. It is also possible that the gun stayed in the factory either as a personal gun of an executive, a salesman's sample, a gun that was sent out to a magazine writer and returned at a later date, from the factory collection or one for some other reason that I can't think of right now.

One must also remember that shipping dates and production/manufacture dates are not one and the same. We have seen examples of two consecutive serial numbered guns shipping as much as 10 years apart.

Back to your gun, we would need more information. Where did you get the 1930 date from? What gun is it? Do you have a serial number?

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James Redfield
LM #497

No I don't have the serial #. The date is from the owner. It is the same gun in my other post about target gun.

As I have said in another recent thread, based on those SNs on my list, it appears that (at least for K-frame M&Ps) the MADE IN U.S.A. stamp began around SN 406xxx. Every M&P SN on my list earlier that has no stamp. Every SN after that does. Perhaps others can provide earlier SNs which are stamped, or pin down more precisely the exact SN range at which it started.

...May 1922 to May 1948 seems like the generally acknowledged range for the "one line address"...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

I'm quoting the OP from the other thread:

No way in heck would it have slipped through QC in 1930 without the MADE IN USA stamping, and then once again escaped stamping, with the four-line, upon the re-visit to the factory in 1949. That would overstretch coincidence.

This gives cause for doubt all around.

Thanks that was what I was thinking.

The meaning of factory service marks may be considered a black hole as far as I'm concerned. I'm reasonably confident the person who made the marks knew what they meant. Beyond that, if there's a service mark, it means it went back for something. I have one that went back. I know this because I bought it new, and I'm the one who sent it back. Accordingly, I'm also the one who knows what was done. So far, so good. I can pretty much guarantee a panel of ten experts will provide at least eight different meanings for the marks on the gun---except for the date stamp. Pretty much everyone agrees on the meaning of the date stamp----IF it's the classic 3 or 4 digit code. I had one which most certainly had been back. It has a 5 digit number---which could be a date---one of two different dates actually.

And as an aside, I THINK the practice of "updating" the frame stamping by the Service Department was put to a stop by Jinks shortly after he became a S&W employee (so says he)---published as 1970. I also think the "updating" involved the application of the "four line" address to any without it.

Ralph Tremaine

"I also think the "updating" involved the application of the "four line" address to any without it."

As do I. I have no idea how a 4-line address could be stamped over MADE IN U.S.A. without it being an obvious overstamp. Indeed anything made from 1923 to 1948 without the one-line stamping would be very suspicious.

All I said was, that they were stamped. I did not state one line or the latter one. Yes, the one line was stopped in the late 40s.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Well let's not make this more difficult than it is----never mind I've never seen one of these "update" stamps---and don't know what I'm talking about. Such minor details have never stopped me before.

The one line address is .9" long (+/-). The four line address is .9" long (+/-). So------given a one line address to be "updated" to four, we use a three line stamp. We might even use a three line stamp with larger type---to (+/-) match the one line. FINI!!!

The bottom line is counterfeiting is easy or difficult depending on the audience.

Ralph Tremaine

Adding three more lines below MADE IN U.S.A. won't work. Look at the two different stampings side by side and you can see that the single line font is much larger than the font used on the later 4-line, and and the one line is much too low. A 4-line address would have to be stamped directly over the existing one line.

Indeed

You must have missed the frequent discussion we’ve already had about this.

I don’t believe that any gun that already had a one-line was ever updated to a four-line, which some people seem to think. That would be either too obvious or too laborious as the rather deep MADE IN USA would have to be ground out, reshaping that area significantly. I’ve never seen a gun which showed signs of that.

I find it more likely that only pre-mid-1922 guns returned to the factory for service received the remedial four-line.

details---DETAILS----minor details!!


RT

OK, info I have gotten:
1. one line 1922-1923
2. 4 line late 1940s
Above is fact.
Now, there may be pre 1922 guns with one line after refinish.
There are no late 1940s with one line.
Roy stopped the re-stamp policy.
Am I on target?

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

"Now, there may be pre 1922 guns with one line after refinish"

More likely, the 4-line address was added to pre-1923 guns sent in for service. I have not heard of a 1-line being stamped on a pre-1923 S&W.

Indeed, come to think of it, I can’t remember that this has come up here, a pre-1922 serial-numbered gun with a one-line stamp suspected of having been retroactively applied during a re-work in the 1922 - 1948 time period.

I am thinking that prior to 1965 when the family was still involved in the company that did not happen. Once Bangor Punta took over, there is no telling what the service department might have added to an older gun. Eventually, Roy Jinks, stopped that practice as he realized that some collectible firearms were be ruined by having modern changes made to older guns.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I can agree a pre 1922 gun having a four line after the late 40s.
I have owned 1917 guns sent in for re-fin and had one line on the frame.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member