Model 1899 Target Screwdriver?

[andyinlz]

I have a new-to-me late Model 1899 .38 Target (SN 207XX) and would like to be able to both adjust the rear sight blade and remove and clean the entire sight assembly (and also check to see if the SN on the sight base and blade match the balance of the SNs).

However, the screws are teeny tiny--and smaller than the smallest of 50 or so gunsmith bits I have.

Said a bit differently, every bit I have is too wide to fit into the recessed hole the screws are set into.

Do any of you have a specific recommendation for the appropriate-sized screw bit----or do I just grind one of my bits narrower (and hope the blade is thin enough to match up with the slot in the screw)?

Any hints or leads appreciated.

[Muley Gil]

I would grind down one of your gunsmithing bits to fit. Make sure the sides are still parallel.

[elm_creek_smith]

Have you looked at jeweler's screwdrivers, real ones, not the ****** ones you get at Dollar stores?

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

[andyinlz]

I didn't think of the jeweler's screwdriver angle.......perhaps they are also hollow ground.

I see that jeweler's screwdrivers are available in sizes from .50mm up to 3mm.

Does anyone know the dimension of heads of these screws?

And, yes, I know S&W didn't use the metric system on Model 1899s.

Thanks!

[Hondo44]

Congrats on the 1899 target find!

If you have a dial caliper, use the inside measuring jaws in the screw slot to get the diameter of the hole. Or lay the outside jaws and lay across the hole.

First soak the screws in a penetrant of your choice before attempting to remove screws.

If you grind one of your screwdriver bits, remember you have a lot of leverage with the full size handle. You may need it to loosen the screws the first time but use care; you don't want to snap off the screw

[andyinlz]

The stripped-down revolver has been submerged in Ed's Red for a few days--with a few bouts of ultrasonic vibration to speed things along.

The sideplate screws came out with literally no effort.

I expect the sight screws to do the same--with the right tool!

I have a crude dial caliper--marked in inches--that I can try to measure this with.

What did the owners of these Targets use back in the day? Or was this the genesis of the SAT?

[Hondo44]

S&W supplied a wood handled screwdriver of about 5" long, with a tiny properly sized hollow ground tip.

[Bobbysixkiller]

Calipers will be hard to measure with. I suggest a feeler gauge. Maybe.

[andyinlz]

I can't wrap my head around how to use a feeler gauge to measure the diameter of a hole.

I will likely use drill bits and convert their size to millimeters.

Maybe use a micrometer to convert the drill bit sizes to inch fractions....

[Hondo44]

I believe Booby meant the screw slot width. But you'd have to stick the curved ends of the gauges into the slot, or cut the feeler gauges into thin strips.

[H Richard]

Use the feeler gauge to determine the opening measurement of the slot, then select the bit that meets that requirement, then grind to fit the width. When prepared I'd take the bit only and insert in the slot and then tap lightly with a small (2 oz) hammer to assist the removal.

[rct269]

Speaking of ****** screwdrivers, I bought a set at Lowes a few years ago. They clearly aren't ****** enough, because I use them (some of them) frequently---and they're still with me.

So---you're looking for the 10 piece Precision Screwdriver Set. The part number is 0525844. (This is 10 tools for $10-$12, so you know they're ******!!) Anyhow, four of the ten are straight blade hollow ground drivers. They fit any and all sight screws on pre-war targets. They not only fit the screws, the handles are large enough to actually get a grip, and use the tool as you would any other screwdriver--------------a rare commodity with screwdrivers of these sizes. Think of them as jewelers tools for use on other than jewelry and eyeglasses.

Ralph Tremaine

As an aside, I have a set of really fancy, God awful expensive jewelers ("Instrument") screwdrivers from Brownells-----we're talking six drivers, made in Germany, in a fancy wooden case---cost $70-$80----the GOOD STUFF!! I haven't used a one of them since I got this junk from Lowes.

[andyinlz]

Thanks--I appreciate the thoughtful responses from individuals I recognize as some of the stars in this community.

I will soak a bit longer, and start with Ralph's suggested Lowe's screwdrivers.

Maybe also throw on some Kroil for good measure.......(I buy it by the gallon).

[andyinlz]

And--you will likely hear more from me.

She currently wears age-appropriate concave jigged bone grips and is missing the front sight blade.

Clearly more to do here, after Mr. J. clears up how it was originally shipped......ideally to some 1901-ish miscreant.

[mikepriwer]

I've been running an 1899 survey, about the caliber roll marking on the left side of the barrel. I don't know if your gun is in the survey. Would you be so kind as to send me
the full serial number, and a yes or no as to whether it has the caliber roll marking ?
If its the original barrel, it should have that marking.

Mike Priwer [email protected]

[mikepriwer]

Here is a link to the survey:
Model of 1899 Serial numbers

20726 is the only serial number I have, that looks like yours.

Mike Priwer

[rct269]

Originally Posted by andyinlz

Thanks--I appreciate the thoughtful responses from individuals I recognize as some of the stars in this community.

I will soak a bit longer, and start with Ralph's suggested Lowe's screwdrivers.

Maybe also throw on some Kroil for good measure.......(I buy it by the gallon).

Speaking of Kroil (and any and all the other miracle workers), a perhaps helpful hint:

Step One: Raise the sight to the extent allowed (with the elevation screw), and park the gun in a stable, muzzle down attitude----muzzle down some, no need for it to be pointing at the floor---better not to be.

Step Two: Squirt/pour your favorite miracle worker into the sight channel where it's going to run downhill to the retaining screw----and where it's going to have direct access to the threads of same---without having to figure out a way to get past the screw head.

Step Three: Hurry up and wait----but not near as long as usual.

(The first time I did this---and I did it only because the sight was already in a significantly elevated position, the results were astounding---compared to the usual. It didn't take too much sittin' and starin' to figure out why.)

And speaking of miracle workers, I'm told PB Blaster is superb---at least with respect to things automotive-----don't know about firearms.

Ralph Tremaine

[andyinlz]

Thanks Mike.

I was aware of your survey and figured mine was such a late SN that it would not matter--but, regardless, I have responded to the linked survey chain. New SN for you, as the revolver is new-to-me this week.

Thanks, Ralph, for the hint about getting one's favorite magic sauce to the meat of the matter--the screw threads. I will follow your advice.

[andyinlz]

As hoped for, after a good soaking the rear sight assembly came off of the revolver. I used cheap jeweler's screwdrivers, as advised by Ralph above.

Good News: Both the assembly base and the rear sight blade are numbers matching to the revolver!

Bad news: One of the sight adjusting screws--while easily removed--was fractured and one half of the end of the screw fell off. It is as if the screw was fractured from the base of the screwdriver slot outward (from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock). So, now I have one SAS that is unusable in its current form.

The SAS also seems to be a bast~*^ size. Apparently 48 pitch threads but a bit larger than a #3 screw and a bit smaller than a #4 screw.

Are these SASs available?

Or, should I grind the head flush, reslot it and cold blue? This would, of course, make the SAS marginally shorter, but should not be a big deal when spread across the 2 screws when they tighten against the blade.

Any and all advice appreciated!

[Hondo44]

How about super glue or soldering it.

Also there's sources that reproduce or sell screws:

Samuel Simmons specializes in reproduced screws and old parts
221 English Hulse Rd
Pocahontas, AR 72455
E-mail: [email protected]
Sam is ruffkat on eBay

Charlie Pate: Provides screws (original & reproduction) for S&W Tip-ups and Top-breaks; author of books and articles on S&W guns.
Phone: 703-533-8057
e-Mail: [email protected]

GUN GARAGE on Ebay (makes screws)
The Gun Garage | eBay Stores

Jack First: Large selection of Pre- and Post-WWII parts. Sells working
parts to FFL dealers only.
Phone: 605-343-9544
Reproduced firing pins for 22/32 Kit Gun and HFT

Gun Parts Corp: Successor to Numrich Arms; many guns parts.
226 Williams Lane, West Hurley, NY 12491
Phone: 845-679-2417
e-Mail: [email protected]
Web Site: Gun Parts & Firearm Accessories | Numrich Gun Parts

Poppert's Gun Parts: Poppert's Gun Parts Main Menu
P.O. Box 413
Glenside, PA 19038
Tel: 215-887-2391 Fax: 215-887-5816
Email: [email protected]

[andyinlz]

Thanks for the leads--I will track them down.

Ralph also has a lead for me.

And, as a FYI, these are teeny tiny screws--soldering or superglue is not a likely option.......

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by andyinlz

Thanks for the leads--I will track them down.

Ralph also has a lead for me.

And, as a FYI, these are teeny tiny screws--soldering or superglue is not a likely option.......

Sometimes we have to think outside the box.

Super glue or micro soldering can get you back to shooting while you search for a new screw.

Micro soldering is routine for a jeweler.

[andyinlz]

Good thoughts.

If I use a jeweler, it will be to reslot the screw head after I grind off the remaining fractured .5mm or so.

That, absent a replacement, will be the best long-term fix.