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11-08-2019, 11:47 AM
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Serial# 50076 Reg# 1740 from the first shipment of RM’s to the KCPD on December 17, 1936. The original 5” barrel now appears to have been cut to 3.5”, the McGivern gold bead front sight has now been replaced with a King Red Bead on a King Ramp Reflector base, and the original Magna grips have been replaced with post-war combat grips. Please see the note in post# 1 above for further information on these RM’s shipped to the KCPD in 1936.
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I know that my comments will be way off target, pun intended, but either a KCPD or Utah highway patrol are the only two R.M.'s I have any real interest in owning. These MAY be the only models I could afford, and I Really Like "working guns."
Thanks all.
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
Quote:
Originally Posted by old bear
I know that my comments will be way off target, pun intended, but either a KCPD or Utah highway patrol are the only two R.M.'s I have any real interest in owning. These MAY be the only models I could afford, and I Really Like "working guns."
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Not off target in my opinion old bear. In an old thread back on 02-14-2012 Dr. Bob Bettis (bettis1) stated the following about REG#5159, Ser. No. 59749, pictured in post# 24, 27, and 28 above:
“Every time I see that beauty I have a hard time understanding why folks speak negatively about the KCPD Magnums. That is a classic working Cop gun. Great barrel length, great hammer, great sights, outstanding history in one of the most traumatic times in American history...just doesn't get any better. If anyone wouldn't be proud to own a KCPD gun, they need to look closely at their standards.”
That quote remains my favorite of any I have seen in my 5 years on this Forum.
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Last edited by lestert357; 11-08-2019 at 12:46 PM.
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Great thread on fine old working guns from the KCPD. Great research thread, you are to be commended for your diligence. Now to join with others in finding one.
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02-24-2020, 09:25 AM
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
61952/NRM - refinished (added per PM)
Photo Credits - GunBroker.com - sarah15
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
59661/5102 - refinished (added per PM)
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Terry Lester, do you know who made the grips on 59797/5209 and 60817/NRM? I assume they’re not just refinished factory magnas.
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03-29-2020, 04:40 AM
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Keith Brown Grips
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flygas
Terry Lester, do you know who made the grips on 59797/5209 and 60817/NRM? I assume they’re not just refinished factory magnas.
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I believe both sets you are asking about, pictured in posts #40 and #41 above, were made by the master S&W grip maker of our time - Keith Brown. They appear to be his pre-war Magna style.
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60865/NRM - refinished
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60914/NRM - refinished
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05-17-2020, 06:22 PM
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Here's mine--#59699 Reg. 5075, confirmed KCPD gun per Jinks letter.
It has a humpback hammer, which the letter does not confirm. It is definitely refinished, but not by the factory.
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc2721
Here's mine--#59699 Reg. 5075, confirmed KCPD gun per Jinks letter.
It has a humpback hammer, which the letter does not confirm.
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All of the 250 .357 Magnums in the 9/7/1939 shipment to the KCPD were shipped from the factory with Hump Back hammers as requested in the original order from the KCPD. See post #43 above.
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05-17-2020, 08:13 PM
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Terry, thank you. I've owned this revolver for 4 or 5 years now and the fact that my letter didn't say anything about the humpback hammer always puzzled me and made me suspect my gun was somehow not all original.
How would I go about having my letter updated? Is that possible?
BTW, when I got this piece it had a set of awful reproduction service grips that were cracked all the way through on one side. I put a set of Ajax grips on it and I've shot it a couple of times at the range--that's what I like about this gun; I can take it out once in a while and enjoy it.
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05-17-2020, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc2721
How would I go about having my letter updated? Is that possible?
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If you originally requested and purchased the letter you have, I believe Mr. Jinks would update the letter for you. You can contact him at [email protected].
You are also certainly welcome to make a copy of the original KCPD order that I pictured in post #43 above.
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05-17-2020, 09:47 PM
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Thanks, I'll give it a try.
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09-07-2020, 09:07 AM
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
60882/NRM - refinished (added per Internet search)
Photo Credits - GunBroker.com - Mountain Man Guns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lestert357
60882/NRM - refinished (added per Internet search)
Photo Credits - GunBroker.com - Mountain Man Guns |
How do you tell that 60882 was refinished?
And thanks for posting this info!
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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09-08-2020, 08:28 PM
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19leben
How do you tell that 60882 was refinished?
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Well it was a judgement call in this case because there are no factory rework marks on the gun such as the star on the butt or a date code on the grip strap under the grip. Below is another picture which is a closeup of the trademark. To me the trademark looks washed out in places which is often an indicator of a refinish. Also the cylinder bolt guides and lock up notches do not look as sharp on the edges as I would expect on an original finish gun. I also spoke to the current owner of this gun, who is a firearms dealer, and he told me he thought the gun exhibits an old refinish. I will say that the color of the gun looks good as do most of the other markings, so if the KCPD armorer refinished this gun he did a pretty nice job. Of course the gun has seen significant usage since it was last finished/refinished which is very common for these KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums as they were in service from 1939/1940 to 1957.
Photo Credit - GunBroker.com - Mountain Man Guns
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For comparison with the picture in post 68 above, here is a closeup of the trademark on my KCPD Reg 5008 which has not been refinished.
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
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What's with the cylinder stop?
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03-07-2021, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightowl
What's with the cylinder stop?
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Richard, I originally hesitated to post this picture in anticipation of your question - which I can’t answer. Surprisingly enough the owner tells me that “it still functions well”, although it appears to be cutting a deep drag line on the cylinder.
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03-07-2021, 08:04 AM
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Certainly very strange! I can't imagine how that could happen!
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03-07-2021, 09:46 AM
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
Looking at the pictures in post# 72 more closely now is generating more questions than answers and this gun is becoming something of a mystery.
Previous information I had on serial number 59676, which I took from an 8-24-2010 post by bettis1 here on the Forum was as follows: SN 59676, Reg. # 5066; 4", Originally blue, now nickel; Humpback hammer; ramp FS; returned to factory on 2-48 and 4-52.
The gun was examined by bettis1 in 2010 at a Dallas, Texas gunshow and was still essentially in its original KCPD configuration except that it was nickel.
The gun pictured in post 72 above was purchased by the current owner at a gun shop in Ada, Oklahoma in 2016. The factory letter with the gun is dated April 2014 and addressed to an individual in Rowlett, Texas. The gun has little in common with an original KCPD configuration. The replaced barrel is 3.5” (instead of the original 4”) and as pictured now the “matching” serial number in the barrel shroud is certainly not factory. Also all 250 KCPD Magnums in the shipment with serial number 59676 originally shipped with a Hump Back Hammer, but this gun now has a standard hammer. Additionally, based on further pictures and information received from the owner, the cylinder and yoke have also been replaced. However a picture of the butt serial number from the owner, shown below, looks like a legitimate factory stamp to me as compared to my 59384 which I know is legitimate and also shown below.
The owner of the gun pictured in post #72 told me he sees no evidence of a previous nickel finish. He also sent me a picture of the left side grip strap; the markings in the area where rework dates are stamped have been mostly obliterated so I cannot tell if the rework dates of 2-48 and 4-52 mentioned by bettis1 were ever there.
At this point it appears there are two possibilities: (1) there are two guns with serial number 59676/REG 5066 in existence, or (2) Bubba did extensive work on 59676/REG 5066 between 8-24-2010 and 2016 including replacing the barrel, replacing the cylinder and yoke, replacing the Hump Back Hammer, removing the nickel finish, and doing something unique in the cylinder stop area.
I will provide an update if/when I get further conclusive evidence one way or the other. In the meantime I am going to list the gun twice in my survey to preserve the historical notes but count it only once for statistical purposes.
**********************************************************************************************************
Final update on serial number 59676/REG 5066: Dr. Jinks advised that this serial number and registration number were NOT duplicated by the factory. Therefore this gun was reworked again after 2010 and the renickel finish was removed.
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03-22-2021, 12:25 AM
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Just to update 60927 has been fully restored back to original condition.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyeti
Just to update 60927 has been fully restored back to original condition.
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Wow! Yes it has. Beautiful work. That gun deserves better than thumbnails.......
60927/NRM - refinished/restored
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Thank You, I have no idea how to post big pictures.
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
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59630/UNK - refinished, barrel only, now installed on Kansas HP post war transitional S71751
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61096/NRM - refinished w/matching grips. (Note: this Magnum with no extras sold on GunBroker on 5/4/2022 for $6734 before taxes and fees.)
Photo Credits - GunBroker.com - GGGPawn
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Last edited by lestert357; 05-28-2024 at 09:03 PM.
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59383/5002 - refinished (barrel only extant)
Photo Credits - 2152hq
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)
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60930/NRM - previously pictured in post #33 above
Amazing how these guns keep reappearing with different grips.
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59767/REG 5170 - previously pictured in post #87 above
Another one reappearing with different grips.
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Terry:
Thanks for your diligence in keeping this thread and the pre-war Magnum Database updated. 
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59656/5069 - refinished (posted on this forum on 7/12/2024)
Photo credit - HouseDouglas
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09-01-2024, 11:36 AM
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US Veteran
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Old Dominion
Posts: 1,628
Likes: 1,412
Liked 11,878 Times in 3,507 Posts
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59615/5052 - modified/aftermarket punch dot engraved
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Terry Lester
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04-11-2025, 07:47 AM
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US Veteran
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Old Dominion
Posts: 1,628
Likes: 1,412
Liked 11,878 Times in 3,507 Posts
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59651/5058 - refinished (I missed this gun which for reference was previously sold at Amoskeag Auction on 8/24/2019 for $3267 including Buyer’s Premium. There was no mention of this gun being shipped to the KCPD in the auction description.)
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Terry Lester
Last edited by lestert357; 04-11-2025 at 09:39 AM.
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