I have always loved the King sighted pre-war guns and I have run down quite a few over the years. But a King Super Police has always eluded me and I have drooled over Caleb's and others posting their Super Police beauties. Finally I was able to run one down and it just happens to be engraved (a double win in my book), with a set of perfect factory gold medallion pearl grips (a triple win...).

It shipped on Nov 27, 1933 to A. Balich in San Francisco, CA, which was also the home of King Gun Sight Company and Orville Kuhl, an engraver known for engraving through the blue and working flowers into most of his engravings... My guess is that the gun went to King for their "Super Police Night Sights" and then to Mr. Kuhl for some further customization.

Here's a few photos of a really fun gun. [there are also a few more photos in post 23-24]



















... and here is the letter for reference:



I'd love to see your King Super Police modified guns or any 2" pre-war M&P as well.

Thanks for letting me share,

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Wow... phenomenal addition to your collection Richard.

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Beau
SWCA #3106 - SWHF #643

Very nice Richard. When I saw the factory letter I was amazed because my 2” M&P was the earliest shipped 2” and the only one shipped in 1933. Now we have 2 revolvers with 2” barrels that were both shipped to San Francisco on November 27th 1933! Mine remains in original condition and I’m sure both guns were on the same train to S.F. Small world! Bill

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But....butt...butt... your letter says "two units" ??????
Wouldn't that mean at least two had shipped in 33?


Is there any way to find out whose got loaded on the train first? Or would it only matter whose was taken OFF the train first......or would it get down to whose was delivered first......or would it be whose was opened and touched first??


Couldn't resist. Just ribbin ya. I like early stuff also.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Richard,
Fabulous gun.

That does not appear to be through the blue. What are your thoughts on the finish?
The flowers do look like Kuhl's work. Any signature or provenance?

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I knew as soon as I saw the title of this thread, and before I drilled into it, that it had to be yours.....

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Terry Lester

Thank you for sharing the images of your beautiful revolver. It is stunning.

I have been very fortunate in being a temporary caretaker of several scarce or unusual Smith's over the years.
A really unique Super Police S&W revolver is the one that keeps eluding me.
Half the fun is the search.

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LEX ET ORDO

I'm dying, you've done it I'm really dying of envy.

I'm dead.

I'm not a big fan of engraved guns but I sure like yours.

Some are just perfect. Good on you for finding one of them.

Richard, that is a really great piece, good for you.

Actually Lee it’s the first one fired that’s the earliest! I know that there were 2 units in my letter but that gun had not shown up yet. McDonald and Linforth were distributors. S&W could have saved on shipping and sent all the guns to M&L and let them distribute the guns. Bill

Dead. I'm really dead.

I've had dreams that King Super Police pre War M&P snubs existed. But hadn't seen one.

Once again, clicking "Like" just doesn't convey my feelings. We still need tabs that say something like "Adore" or "Lust After" or something even more emphatic.

One of my goals in small guns is to take my old Baby Chief and give it the Super Police treatment. I thought I had found a gunsmith willing to do it, but he was thinking of doing the King Target conversion with rib and all, certainly not appropriate for my Baby! Your excellent pictures will go in my files for possible use in having a talented machinist I know set up to try and replicate the package. Thanks for sharing!

Regards,
Froggie

PS Does anyone have a date for the end of King Gunsights? Did the company exist in any form after WW II?

I knew who had posted this before I even clicked on the thread. Seriously.

A gorgeous gun, accompanied by the usual array of outstanding photographs.

Sooner or later, people looking at this simply run out of superlatives.

Nothing left for me to say.

Anyone else find it interesting that of the two guns shipped the same day, one had wood grips and the other had hard rubber grips?

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John

Wow, that is stunning.

I'd be afraid to touch it or even look at it if I owned it, lol

Very nice, thanks for sharing!

My daughters would go nuts for that! Thanks for sharing!

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

My goodness that is a real gem! Had no idea that King put sights on fixed sight revolvers.{shows how much I get out}
Does any one know of a gunsmith that can/will, put a white outline on my model 10 such as the one pictured? Does anybody even attempt this?
Ron

Well, that takes my breath away. And if I had come across it first, it would have taken my money away too. Congratulations.

There's a Robert W. Balich in San Francisco in the 1940 census. His Occupation is Merchant and his Industry is Sporting Goods. R.W. was born in California in 1887. Several other Balich households in San Francisco in those years stem from post-1900 immigrants from Yugoslavia. 583 Market St. is a commercial address, but the site is now filled with an office tower whose street number is 595. A Peet's Coffee shop occupies part of the ground floor about where 583 was once located.

I don't see an A. Balich in the records, but this wouldn't be the first time a spelling or transcription error was found in the company's shipping records.

EDITED TO ADD: In 1920, 583 Market was the address for R.T. Crocker, manufacturer of leather and sporting goods, and Ellery Manufacturing Company of America. In 1928, this was also the address for the San Francisco retail store of the Boy Scouts of America. In 1942, the address was home to Alco Leather Co. (cases and sporting goods) and a metal replating operation. I haven't been able to turn up the name Balich in association with any of these uses. Only the 1940 census ties him to sporting goods.

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David Wilson

Beautiful gun, congratulations on finding that one!! I just wish I knew what tool they used to put the U shaped notch in rear sight. What a difference it must make in the sight picture. It would be just fascinating if King had you tube movies showing what they did and how they dd it but the internet was a very slow dial up connection back then. Ha ha Enjoy!

Oh wow. Over the top nice.

That rear sight with the ring. That is so cool. I've never seen that before. I bet that makes for a really nice sight picture with the front gold. Although admittedly I'm not sure how much I'd like a rounded front sight. But I have shot lever guns with that set up and didn't find it bad.

It goes without saying, this piece is incredibly special. Just a wonderful example. I would cherish it with my whole heart as I'm sure you do! I can't think of a positive superlative that isn't applicable here.

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

I went over every inch of the gun and found no engraver's marks. The engraving looks like it was cut through the blue and then perhaps a cold blue applied to the engraving. It is much lighter in the engraved parts... I have photos of a handful of Kuhl engraved guns and this one has many of the features. Most of my Kuhl photos are of N-Frame guns with one K-22. I think this may be an early one, and one that was engraved fairly quickly - nice, but simple coverage with no inlays...

It did come to me with a couple of interesting features (besides the engraving and the sights). It came with a holster...







[All you Holster guys - any thoughts on the maker or have you ever seen one like this before (it's a first for me)? There are no marks on it anywhere - perhaps homemade??]


... and a screw in grip adapter carved out of ebony:

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Bill:

That is way cool! I knew this one was early, but I did not know it was that early... Your M&P is outstanding and mine is certainly not in its original condition - but I think I'm okay with that in this case. Although, I would take any pre-war snubbie M&P in almost any condition...

I would assume that they shipped in a 4" M&P box, as they were some of the earlier ones shipped and they probably had not made the boxes for the 2"ers. I just happened to have an extra period correct M&P patent box with some paperwork lying around ... so I snapped a few Glamour shots with the box and what I believe is some period-correct "stuff":

On the box:





... and in the box...

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Got any more old ammo? That 38 S&W ain't gonna fit.


I missed the hole for the grip adapter. Neat that it is ebony. I think I would put it on. The gun is modified anyway in a very nice way, and that just makes it more custom.
I think those small medallion grips are from very early in the M&P era. I wonder why it shipped with NON medallion grips. I suppose it was ordered that way, or Roy would not have even known they were non medallion.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

That is too funny - I can go with two stories: 1) that's what I get when I try and organize my ammo at the same time as I'm taking photos - I grabbed the wrong box - man I got to slow down and check a few things a little closer... ... or 2) there is a pre-war Terrier, just out of the frame of the photo that is waiting for that 38 S&W ammo?

Looks like this little guy will be getting another photo shoot in the near future...

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

RK,

Now first you need to thoroughly read the thread on Collector Ethics in the SWCA Forum, and then you need to sell me this entire package so that you don’t ever have to worry about the ethics of this “put together” package! Oh, and make sure I get the right box of ammo!

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Terry Lester

Both of those pistols are great!

I have posted this M&P a few times before, shipped in 1948 to King's Gun Sight Co. in SF. Yours are in much better shape than the one I have. Note on the last photo how King's changed the way they installed the front sight.

nutsforsmiths, I also notice that the "improved" rear notch on your post-War example has a U-shaped profile while the earlier one from the OP has the square notch. I wonder whether that was a change in practice over time or was available in both styles throughout.

RKmesa, the display package you put together is most appropriate and I hope you will soon find the proper caliber ammo box so the sharp eyed won't crash your picture show! Would the "Dog Bone" style box of Remington ammo be of the proper vintage? I've always though they were the ultimate cool on display.

Froggie

I hate you. I will not sit straight for a week.

My material says King Gunsight Company production ended in 1955.

Ralph Tremaine

Thanks, Ralph. This means that it would at least be possible to have had a Baby Chief run through the shop and equipped as a Super Police Model. I had previously had people tell me it was impossible, presumably because they were counting King's passing as the end of the company as well. If I hit this topic in enough threads, I'm hoping someone will come forward with an actual example.

I would still be curious to know whether the square vs U-shaped profile for the rear sight would be proper at the late date or perhaps both? Inquiring minds want to know.

Froggie

But Richard, I’m sorry to inform you that this is not an N frame. I will be happy to take it off your hands... Dave

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Illegitimi non carborundum

I believe the fixed sight King guns are far rarer than the King Target guns. I've seen hundreds of King Target guns over the years, but only a handful of fixed sighted King guns.


An interesting version of the Super Police on a Super Police.
This early 38/44 HD shipped April 15, 1930. The HD was introduced April 1, 1930. The old gun still wears its original grips.
Bigger pics are here- 38 HD King Super Police
It obviously has a red post instead of the usual LARGE Gold Bead seen on a King Super Police.

















These early HDs still have the fouling Cup>






King also worked on the Off Brand.
A King Super Police on the Official Police.
This old Colt is #5960XX and is probably from early 1936.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I only have this offbrand in the fixed sight department.












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

Words are hard to come by. That is is stunning and truly rare example. Just beautiful.
Now my question immediately was that you must be talking about a 38/44 HD as a Super Police. I scanned the SCSW for "Super Police" and in fact came up with only HD under that name.
Where does the name Super Police come from in the M&P?
Was that King's name for his customized package? The name given to it by the police? Or did I miss something in the SCSW? I am just trying to learn, not being critical at all.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

I don’t have the link right now but a couple of years ago someone scanned and posted a copy of an old King catalog. It showed the price and description of a package of upgrades called the Super Police package. It was actually pretty reasonable since it involved mostly labor (which was pretty cheap back then) and the addition of a commonly made front sight blade. I’m actually surprised we don’t see more of them and can only assume that LEOs of the era felt that it didn’t improve their guns enough to justify even that modest additional cost. I still wish I could find someone set up to do the conversion today!

Froggie

That would be a Yes. They cost an outrageous $2.50! Pic of a King catalog-

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

... and one more photo from another King brochure:



The front sight itself seems to be cheap at $2.50, but the package (including the white outline rear sight) was more pricey at $17.50...

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Oddly enough, early brochures price the front and rear sight mods at $2.50 each/$5.00 total. I can see why they became less frequently ordered after the price to do the rear sight skyrocketed by six fold from $2.50 to $15.00!

Froggie

Dear Richard,

really a very nice revolver, congratulation !!
I think Roy made a typo, the dealer was Adolph Blaich, SF.

Best regards from Germany
Paul #SWCA 1354

David and Paul:

Thanks for your insight and research. I found Adolph Blaich in the 1940 Census and he was involved in the "wholesale sporting goods" business (I also think he sold a lot of what have become collectible razors). Probably a transposition error somewhere along the reporting trail and Mr A Blaich was the more likely destination point for this little 38 Special...

Here's the census record...

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

On the new evidence, Balich can take a back seat. I like Blaich.

There are references to a Blaich Hardware Company and Blaich Cutlery to be found at the given Market Street address. Must be just a fluke that a guy name Balich who was born within a year of Blaich was also in sporting goods.

On the holster: that's not an unfamiliar design to me, but I haven't seen more than one or two over the years. I don't recall when/where I might have seen one last. I think it is intended for use in a right front trousers pocket. The way it's designed, the leather would stay in the pocket when the revolver was produced. Remember that there was a leather worker in business at the Market St. address. It could be a custom job completed on-site at Blaich's request (assuming he ordered the revolver for his personal use).

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David Wilson

Wow that is the best EDC gun ever. P+ safe? Just kidding of course. Thank you so much for showing us this wonderful S&W.

Thank you.

Additional Holster Info: I should have taken a photo of the back as well, but it has a couple of straps to feed a belt through. In addition, I think there was a retention strap at one point that snapped in the front...

I'm at the office right now, but I'll check later tonight...

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

You are truly a master at finding ultra-kool guns. You must be the Hugh Hefner of gun porn. Holy cow!

I don't care what Patton says, that pearl handled pistol is top notch.

That is one that I would almost want to put on display on my coffee table so I could just stare at it all night. Wonderful find!

For sheer durability, MOP leaves a lot to be desired, but then again, most guns so equipped aren’t generally destined for rough duty. Bob L has the right idea... or maybe I’d place it in a display case next to my bed so it could be seen and admired first and last thing every night, and available if something went “bump in the night.” The holster would fit well on a belt under the cummerbund of my tux on very special occasions. Make my martini dry, stirred not shaken.

Froggie

There's another consideration: I doubt many officers in those days had a spare revolver to carry while waiting for the work to be done. I recall having to borrow my wife's M67 for a couple weeks when my HP was in the shop for replacement of a rear sight blade. That also meant buying an authorized duty holster and speed loaders for the smaller gun. I was considered a "gun guy" within the department but I was also a newlywed who had liquidated a lot in order to relocate. It was another year or two before I could keep a dedicated spare.

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I need ammo, not a ride.