My search for a Registered Magnum is over.

[mrcvs]

Realizing that every good collection of Smith & Wesson revolvers should have a decent representative example of a Registered Magnum, but not wanting to collect these, as my primary interests are mostly the antique stuff and early 20th Century stuff, with the occasional Triple Lock as, mostly, the latest production stuff, I searched the national firearms houses and was repeatedly outbid, in my quest for a decent example. Mission accomplished today, and I found it for sale at a small local auction house, less than 5 miles from where I live.

Introducing my new Registered Magnum!

Note: Definitely not refinished. Any imperfections noted are mostly from Renaissance wax.

[murphydog]

Congratulations! 8 3/4" barrel? And do you know if the swivel is original?

[mrcvs]

And here is a copy of the factory letter and photographs of the sights, as detailed in the factory letter.

Also, could this be the original owner?

William Kruse from Ward 7 Jersey City in 1940 Census District 24-130

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by murphydog

Congratulations! 8 3/4" barrel? And do you know if the swivel is original?

8 3/8" barrel and the lanyard ring does letter.

[Valmet]

Well done, it is a fine looking example

[Dave from Pa]

Congratulations!

[KEN L]

Beautiful! I wonder what happened to the grip adapter.

[mh51]

Good things come to those who wait. Nice one!

[usmc2427765]

Great find. Can you imagine having a revolver shipped to Jersey City NY today?

[6string]

Originally Posted by usmc2427765

Great find. Can you imagine having a revolver shipped to Jersey City NY today?

Yeah, direct from the factory, yet!

Oh... great catch! Gorgeous 357!

[6518John]

Mr. Kruse was a SHOOTER! Or planed on some fancy shooting—with his revolver sighted in at 100 yards with wadcutters!

Frankly, I did not know a wadcutter would travel 100 yards, much less have a gun sited in with them at that range. He must have been the Elmer Keith of New Jersey with his long rage shootin.

[mrcvs]

I've got nothing to hide. Here's the link to the auction listing: Smith & Wesson Pre-World War I... Auctions Online | Proxibid

I ended up writing a check for $5,843.25. I was on-site, so buyer's premium was 10%, and I had to pay 6% sales tax. EXCEPT I ended up paying a buyer's premium of 5% because the auctioneer stated that the terms of the auction were on the bidding card and it clearly stated 5%. I immediately checked out and pointed this out, and they did agree with me and so I realized this savings. Of course, they immediately announced, at that point, the buyer's premium was 10%, NOT what the bidding card said.

I have nothing to hide. I don't plan on selling this one anytime soon, so if the link to the listing and what I paid are of use to anyone else out there...

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by KEN L

Beautiful! I wonder what happened to the grip adapter.

I wondered that, as well. Also, it came with a second set of grips, which are not with the gun anymore...

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by usmc2427765

Great find. Can you imagine having a revolver shipped to Jersey City NY today?

It was Jersey City, NJ, not NY. But what you say still applies. I had wondered the same thing.

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by 6518John

Mr. Kruse was a SHOOTER! Or planed on some fancy shooting—with his revolver sighted in at 100 yards with wadcutters!

Frankly, I did not know a wadcutter would travel 100 yards, much less have a gun sited in with them at that range. He must have been the Elmer Keith of New Jersey with his long rage shootin.

Great observation! I did not catch that. Presumably, the front sight on mine would be considerably lower than that normally found on one of these to adjust for that?

I obviously don't plan on shooting this one. It will be buried in the safe for the long term.

[Vettepartz]

Congratulations on a great find. Every serious S&W collector should have one of these at sometime in their life.

[lestert357]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

I obviously don't plan on shooting this one. It will be buried in the safe for the long term.

I believe it could be fired from time to time without degrading it in any way; and I wouldn’t bury it in the safe - I would keep it right at the top where it could be admired and handled on a regular basis. Anyway, regardless of how you decide to use it, congratulations on obtaining that beauty!

[jmace57]

I was bidding on that one from online for a while. Congratulations! It is a nice one.

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by jmace57

I was bidding on that one from online for a while. Congratulations! It is a nice one.

It's a small local auction house. Only fifteen or so live bidders so much of their business is done over the internet. I don't think I was even bidding against another live bidder at any time.

[mrcvs]

A few curiosities...

Any ideas as to why this one might have sold for $39.00 with a grip adapter and a second set of grips when they normally sold for $60?

Also, why might a lanyard ring have been specially ordered on a Registered Magnum.

[MRH]

Good job! I was bidding on that one as well. I got busy and missed the end! Probably a good thing ... but I am looking for a long one.

I am a shooter more than a collector,by far, but the Magnums are fascinating guns. I recently bought a refinished 4” nonreg that is within the range of 200 guns shipped to the Kansas City MO police and it is a shooter!

[RKmesa]

Congrats! That is a very nice gun.

[StrawHat]

Glad you found yours!

Kevin

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by MRH

Good job! I was bidding on that one as well. I got busy and missed the end! Probably a good thing ... but I am looking for a long one.

I am a shooter more than a collector,by far, but the Magnums are fascinating guns. I recently bought a refinished 4” nonreg that is within the range of 200 guns shipped to the Kansas City MO police and it is a shooter!

If you don't mind me asking, how high would you have gone?

I was willing to go to $5500, but the way the bidding was going, in $250 increments, I had to bid $4750 which meant I was out at $5250 and thus would be out for good as I would have been outbid at $5500 and then would have had to have bid $5750, which I had already decided was too high. So, not sure if my $5250 bid saved me $250, or cost me $250 extra. I doubt it would have ended at a nice round number like $5000, had I been that bidder, so, in the end, I think it worked out fine.

I'm happy to finally be a member of the Registered Magnum club!

[rct269]

I've noted $39 as a police price----interesting, as the distributor price (a more typical police price) was $47 thereabouts----a clear indication they'd much rather sell the RM direct to the consumer for $60.

As to sight blade height----two (rear) sight blades were included with the gun. If sighted in at a long range, the long range blade was installed---and vice-versa for short range.

Ralph Tremaine

[handejector]

Neat gun! Good for you!

Originally Posted by mrcvs

Also, it came with a second set of grips, which are not with the gun anymore...

The second set of grips were Magnas. Grip adapters don't normally work with magnas. Are those grips numbered to the gun, or do they have no number? If no number, they are possibly the original pair shipped with the gun. If numbered to the gun, they are obviously the extra pair. It is curious how the letter is worded-

A special pair of magna grips was included fit to the revolver to allow for butt swivel.

Magnas or service grips with a grip adapter don't require anything "special" to work with a butt swivel, so what did Roy mean by that?

Originally Posted by mrcvs

Presumably, the front sight on mine would be considerably lower than that normally found on one of these to adjust for that?

It probably is lower. The mid range trajectory of a 38 WC at 100 yds would endanger birds flying over.

Originally Posted by mrcvs

A few curiosities...

Any ideas as to why this one might have sold for $39.00 with a grip adapter and a second set of grips when they normally sold for $60?

Probably a military or police discount that also avoided the excise tax.

Originally Posted by mrcvs

A few curiosities...
Also, why might a lanyard ring have been specially ordered on a Registered Magnum.

Cause he wanted one?
If military or police, he may have felt the need for it.

[MRH]

If I was as aware of the condition then as I am now - $6,000, maybe more. Maybe more. For some reason I had it in my head that the grips were chipped up. Maybe there were grainy photos up the first time I looked at it. Maybe I was looking at it on the phone. I am on the hunt for that configuration. Alas. I Was busy farming and not watching the time.

[rct269]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

If you don't mind me asking, how high would you have gone?

I was willing to go to $5500, but the way the bidding was going, in $250 increments, I had to bid $4750 which meant I was out at $5250 and thus would be out for good as I would have been outbid at $5500 and then would have had to have bid $5750, which I had already decided was too high. So, not sure if my $5250 bid saved me $250, or cost me $250 extra. I doubt it would have ended at a nice round number like $5000, had I been that bidder, so, in the end, I think it worked out fine.

I'm happy to finally be a member of the Registered Magnum club!

Yes, but God looks out for fools like you and me. My first Triple Lock target was to be from an auction. There were two----both very spiffy---one more so. The prevailing wisdom (from Jinks) was the spiffiest was refinished. I registered to bid on both. D Day: The nice lady from the auction house called. It's time to saddle-up! I tell her I've decided not to bid on the spiffiest, but would like to know what it goes for------no problem---$3,500. I was a happy camper---those on site clearly thought it was refinished too---and I figured I could buy the good one for $5,500----which I was prepared to do. Here we go!! I tell the nice lady I won't be placing any bids---to just tell me when it's time to buy the gun. About two seconds later she says, "He's at $7,000---do you want to go to $7,500?" "No Ma'am, thank you, I'm out." Anguish---Dispair---I'm in a blue funk for months.

Then the phone rings. The voice said they had a TLT they wanted to sell---and they called me because it said I collected "Target" in the SWCA Roster----and it was a beautiful 7 1/2"---and it was $5,250 (back in the good old days)----and there IS a God!!

Ralph Tremaine

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by MRH

If I was as aware of the condition then as I am now - $6,000, maybe more. Maybe more. For some reason I had it in my head that the grips were chipped up. Maybe there were grainy photos up the first time I looked at it. Maybe I was looking at it on the phone. I am on the hunt for that configuration. Alas. I Was busy farming and not watching the time.

Great observation. If you look at the photographs, the top of the right grip is chipped slightly. I did not notice that until I got it home yesterday but that still wouldn't have changed anything.

[rct269]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

A few curiosities...

Any ideas as to why this one might have sold for $39.00 with a grip adapter and a second set of grips when they normally sold for $60?

Also, why might a lanyard ring have been specially ordered on a Registered Magnum.

All RM's fit with standard grips were shipped with a grip adapter. The only option was whether it was to be attached or unattached.

Ralph Tremaine

[mrcvs]

Regarding Lee's Post #26, above;

I have no idea how to split up quotes like he did, so I will respond the old fashioned way.

I took photographs of the inside of the stocks. Nothing at all stamped within.

I said to myself "huh" when the letter stated the grips were adapted for the lanyard. Didn't make sense to me, either.

The auctioneer did remove the stocks at one point and there was no month and date stamped within so I hadn't removed the stocks until now. On the right side of the frame is an "O" with a "B" immediately below it. Presumably the "B" stands for Blued.

On the left side of the frame on one side of the stock pin is an "S". On the other side is a "64". Definitely not a refinish date but not sure of the significance.

I, too, thought maybe the $39.00 meant this might have been a law enforcement firearm. But the 8 3/8" barrel length would be a curious choice.

Maybe sold to a prominent individual? The letter states that this was shipped to William R Kruse. There was a William F Kruse, born 1894 with New Jersey connections who was a prominent member of the Socialist Party.

[bigwheelzip]

Nice catch. Enjoy.

Dug a little and found 2 men named William R. Kruse with connections in NJ, born in the age range that might have ordered it, but no other supporting provenance.

Did find an interesting direct reference to the gun you won, in a 2017 Rock Island auction of another Reg. Mag. owned by William's relative Robert. Maybe it could lead somewhere.

Smith & Wesson Registered .357 Magnum Revolver | Rock Island Auction

Edit: here is a listing created from a census of the father Robert Kruse Sr.. It shows both Reg. Mag. owners, his sons, William and Robert Jr. are brothers.

Robert Kruse, born abt 1874 - New Jersey - 1930 United States Census

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by bigwheelzip

Nice catch. Enjoy.

Dug a little and found 2 men named William R. Kruse with connections in NJ, born in the age range that might have ordered it, but no other supporting provenance.

Did find an interesting direct reference to the gun you won, in a 2017 Rock Island auction of another Reg. Mag. owned by William's relative Robert. Maybe it could lead somewhere.

Smith & Wesson Registered .357 Magnum Revolver | Rock Island Auction

Edit: here is a listing created from a census of the father Robert Kruse Sr.. It shows both Reg. Mag. owners, his sons, William and Robert Jr. are brothers.

Robert Kruse, born abt 1874 - New Jersey - 1930 United States Census

Wow, that's fantastic information! It sure seems like this William Kruse, born 1912, deceased July 2000 must be the original owner. I wonder if he got a discount because another family member had already purchased one?

I suspected the 8 3/8" barrel length might be uncommon, and I see only 32 in this barrel length were manufactured as such. Seems odd to remove only 3/8" from an original barrel of 8 3/4".

There was a table of the various barrel lengths of Registered Magnums and production numbers that I had seen recently but could not locate it. Does anyone have it readily available to post?

[Muley Gil]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

Wow, that's fantastic information! It sure seems like this William Kruse, born 1912, deceased July 2000 must be the original owner. I wonder if he got a discount because another family member had already purchased one?

I suspected the 8 3/8" barrel length might be uncommon, and I see only 32 in this barrel length were manufactured as such. Seems odd to remove only 3/8" from an original barrel of 8 3/4".

There was a table of the various barrel lengths of Registered Magnums and production numbers that I had seen recently but could not locate it. Does anyone have it readily available to post?

The United States Revolver Association rules stated that the maximum sight radius on revolvers used in competition was 10", so S&W cut 3/8" from the barrel to meet this rule.

[rct269]

The 8 3/8" and 8 3/4" business arises from what is and what isn't an allowable sight radius-----in bullseye competition----an item of no doubt great concern to 357 Magnum owners.

The allowable sight radius of the USRA (and NRA if I recall correctly) is 10". The sight radius on an 8 3/4" 357 Magnum is 10 3/8"----so none of the then present and future long tube Magnum owners could use theirs in competition. S&W, ever on the lookout for solutions in search of problems, was quick to come to their rescue with the 8 3/8" barrel.

Ralph Tremaine

And I see Muley types faster than I do---probably thinks faster too!

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

The United States Revolver Association rules stated that the maximum sight radius on revolvers used in competition was 10", so S&W cut 3/8" from the barrel to meet this rule.

I had suspected this to be the reason EXCEPT I would have thought that, because of this, 8 3/8" would be a very common barrel length. But, of 5,500 or so Registered Magnum revolvers produced, only 32 had a barrel length of 8 3/8".

[rct269]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

I had suspected this to be the reason EXCEPT I would have thought that, because of this, 8 3/8" would be a very common barrel length. But, of 5,500 or so Registered Magnum revolvers produced, only 32 had a barrel length of 8 3/8".

It's worth noting the 8 3/8" barrel business (excessive sight radius) came along some time after the RM's had been on the market with 8 3/4" barrels. All told, there were 615 known RM's with 8 3/4" barrels.

Ralph Tremaine

[handejector]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

Wow, that's fantastic information! It sure seems like this William Kruse, born 1912, deceased July 2000 must be the original owner. I wonder if he got a discount because another family member had already purchased one?

I suspected the 8 3/8" barrel length might be uncommon, and I see only 32 in this barrel length were manufactured as such. Seems odd to remove only 3/8" from an original barrel of 8 3/4".

There was a table of the various barrel lengths of Registered Magnums and production numbers that I had seen recently but could not locate it. Does anyone have it readily available to post?

VERY interesting stuff.
Robert also had his sighted in at 100 yds with Wadcutter ammo, but with a 6 o'clock hold.

The discount would not have been because another family member had ordered one.


Correct- 32 are recorded with the 8-3/8" barrel, but some of the records are missing and Roy guesstimates that 38 were built.

[younggun22]

Fantastic addition! I am still searching for my first Registered Magnum but the fun is in the hunt!

[lestert357]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

There was a table of the various barrel lengths of Registered Magnums and production numbers that I had seen recently but could not locate it. Does anyone have it readily available to post?

There are two versions that Roy has previously published. One estimates 38 and the other lists 37 in the 8 3/8” barrel length as follows:

[mikepriwer]

As to the two comments about direct-shipping of a gun to Jersey City, NJ:

How about direct shipment to a 4th year (senior) member of the Class of 1900 at West Point ? Or a 6 3/4" reg mag shipped to a graduating senior at Dartmouth in 1936 ?

Regards, Mike Priwer

[Doc44]

The lanyard ring and extra set of Magna stocks were ordered on the S&W .357 Magnum order form, but no reasons as to why they were ordered are listed.

Bill

[Vettepartz]

In looking at the OP's picture of the factory letter, it sure looks like it was shipped to Jersey City, NY. Yet everyone keeps referring to Jersey City, NJ. Am I missing something here?

[handejector]

Originally Posted by Vettepartz

In looking at the OP's picture of the factory letter, it sure looks like it was shipped to Jersey City, NY. Yet everyone keeps referring to Jersey City, NJ. Am I missing something here?

"NY" in the letter is probably a typo or mistake. If you Google Jersey City, you get one in NJ, but NONE in NY.

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by Vettepartz

In looking at the OP's picture of the factory letter, it sure looks like it was shipped to Jersey City, NY. Yet everyone keeps referring to Jersey City, NJ. Am I missing something here?

There was a previous mention of Jersey City, New YORK, and I thought they made a typo. Now I see the typo is in the letter. It is common knowledge in my area that Jersey City is in New JERSEY, and, because of this, I never noticed the (obvious) typo.

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by bigwheelzip

Nice catch. Enjoy.

Dug a little and found 2 men named William R. Kruse with connections in NJ, born in the age range that might have ordered it, but no other supporting provenance.

Did find an interesting direct reference to the gun you won, in a 2017 Rock Island auction of another Reg. Mag. owned by William's relative Robert. Maybe it could lead somewhere.

Smith & Wesson Registered .357 Magnum Revolver | Rock Island Auction

Edit: here is a listing created from a census of the father Robert Kruse Sr.. It shows both Reg. Mag. owners, his sons, William and Robert Jr. are brothers.

Robert Kruse, born abt 1874 - New Jersey - 1930 United States Census

A member on another recent thread "Finally got a RM" asked what the "average" price of a Registered Magnum is these days, but, of course, the concept of average can be a dangerous one. Another poster suggested $5000 to $15000. My observations are that this is a decent range for today, definitely skewered in the under $10000 range, so the average of the $5000 to $15000 range would be well under $10000. Also, there are extreme outliers in both directions.

This example provided by another forum member (thank you bigwheelzip!) Is interesting in that it is, without a doubt, the "sister Registered Magnum" to mine. That one sold in 2017. Registered Magnum revolvers have done nothing but go up since then. It's a little difficult to compare then vs now, and, granted, this one has all the "goodies" plus is in slightly better condition than mine. So, in short, it's a bit of comparing apples to oranges here, to some degree, but not much. This thread provides good photographs of both revolvers and shows the "goodies" the other one has which mine lacks.

If need be, take the aforementioned with a grain of salt. The only definitive conclusion that can be made is that the other Registered Magnum sold for precisely 3.3454545... times what mine sold for over the weekend.

[6518John]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

Great observation! I did not catch that. Presumably, the front sight on mine would be considerably lower than that normally found on one of these to adjust for that?

Out of curiosity I pulled up a ballistic calculator and Federal Match 148 grain wadcutters have a 10.56 mid range (50 yards) trajectory rise when sited in at 100 yards. They hit at 100 yards at 562 feet per second, with 104 foot pounds of energy.

So the mid-range rise was just under a foot—not nearly as high as I would have suspected. I guess 100 yard shots are doable.

[mrcvs]

I didn't get around to posting until now the SWHF Letter on my Registered Magnum.

A few curious things. Roy's letter stated this revolver cost $39.00, which is a 35% discount over full retail. I don't think the purchaser of mine had a law enforcement connection, which means that in order to qualify for a discount, an affiliation with something like the NRA would have been required. I don't see any reference to this, such as a questionnaire, so maybe it was simply handled over the phone. However, I would have thought that such details would have been addressed in the first attached document ("Purchase Order"). Then again, I see no reference anywhere as to the actual cost of this revolver, unless I have missed it, so I am not sure where Roy determined that this particular revolver cost $39. Maybe it was a full retail $60. Maybe it was even more than this, as there was an extra set of grips included with this revolver with grip adapters, now lost. It did state the following on the purchase order: "Please advise extra cost of grip and other changes will amount to." These other changes being, at a minimum, the lanyard ring and grip adapter. No reference is made as to the cost of this revolver, one way or another, independent of customized changes.

Maybe, because this was a truly custom revolver, the customized changes were included as part of the purchase price. That certainly would not be the case today, but maybe in the depths of the Depression, realizing this was a high ticket item, it's possible these customized changes were just the cost of doing business. Seems extremely unlikely...but possible. I can see the lanyard ring maybe being thrown in for no additional cost, as it has nominal value, but I would think that an extra set of grips for free might be a stretch.

[CptCurl]

That's a fine RM with a great story. I'm not a member of the RM Club, but certainly would like to be. Congratulations!

Curl

[MixmodelA]

In deed. I, too, am not a member (yet) of the RM club. But I was high bidder yesterday for three hours, three minutes, three seconds on G/B at 5 k plus! Mother would be proud. Thanks! Mick