Hi folks, which box is correct for a K-22 (pre 17) from 1948, gold or blue? I was thinking gold but the guy I traded for at OGCA this past weekend said the blue box it came with is correct. I was not going to debate the guy since I wanted the gun and it did have a box although I believe its the wrong vintage. Any insight would be appreciated. Thank you.

The two piece blue boxes definitely were NOT in use in 1948. A K-22 Masterpiece in 1948 would have shipped in a gold box like this one.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Post a picture of your box and we can probably come pretty close to telling you what vintage it is.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Need full serial number. Big Larry

Well, does the box SN match the gun?

If not, it is wrong regardless of the color.

There were no blue boxes used in 1948 for Masterpiece revolvers. Gold boxes ran from 1946 to 1965, while the first two piece blue box was introduced with the advent of model numbers, around 1957 - 1958 through 1966.

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

This seems to be generally true for the K and N frame revolvers. However, blue boxes appeared for the I and J frames a bit earlier, probably around 1954. Of course, I and J frame guns were not shipped in the gold boxes. The boxes for the postwar small frame guns were red.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Mr. Lowe, what about the very dark blue/grayish colored boxes with solid borders ? I have one that has S&W in silver on one end, and a paste on, pre-printed label on the other for a K-38 Heavy Masterpiece with a 6 inch barrel, blue finish and Target Hammer.
The bottom interior section has the April 15, 1955 Statement of Liability and Warranty notice.
Is it correct for my pre-Model 14 that shipped on 5/31/55 and matches the description ? The original serial number on the bottom is illegible.

I disagree.
What many of us call Blue/Black (B/B) boxes appeared in 1955. We call them Blue/Black because they were a very dull blue that faded to a very dark Gray that looks like faded black.
Some very late 5 Screw and the early 4 Screw Masterpieces were shipped in them. Not too surprisingly, some very early 4 Screw Masterpieces shipped in Gold boxes. Grab what's close and get 'em packed!
The early 5 Screw Mod 1955 Targets shipped in B/B boxes, and so did some 5 Screw Mod 1950 Targets.
Some late 5 Screw Pre 10s shipped in B/B boxes.
I am sure of all of the above because I have seen all of the above in high condition, complete packages that I am certain were original. In some cases, they were from the original owners. In a few cases, I saw original sales receipts.


Here is a K-22 box for # K275297. Note that the bottoms of the B/B boxes are usually faded less than the tops because they are protected from light by the top. Light fades them. Apparently, any kind of light.


















Below is another B/B for K-22 # K284941. Note that it is deeper, longer, and wider than the above box. When S&W first offered Target Grips for the Masterpieces, they were still using Gold boxes. The gun will NOT fit in a Gold box with the Target grips mounted, so S&W shipped some Masterpieces that were early orders with TG in the Gold boxes with the grips dismounted and wrapped in brown tissue. That probably led to some damaged grips and complaints. I SUPPOSE S&W ordered these deep, non-printed boxes to save time and get that problem solved. This same generic box was used for those N frames I reference above.















This last pic shows the difference in length and width-

Attached Images

	IMG_0071.jpg (71.5 KB, 797 views)
	IMG_0069.jpg (99.7 KB, 797 views)
	IMG_0070.jpg (82.1 KB, 795 views)
	IMG_0064.jpg (68.2 KB, 798 views)
	IMG_0066.jpg (74.3 KB, 796 views)
	IMG_0065.jpg (89.8 KB, 799 views)
	IMG_0067.jpg (72.6 KB, 801 views)
	IMG_0068.jpg (62.3 KB, 795 views)
	IMG_0072.jpg (68.2 KB, 794 views)

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Thank you soo much for sharing all this info and the pictures.

This should be bookmarked, along with the one you deleted.

__________________
Kenny
Endeavor to persevere.

Good response, Lee. Got me to thinking. So I dug through the big safe and found what I was looking for. A K-38 Masterpiece, four screw, that shipped in November, 1956. The serial number is very close to the K-22 box you showed in your pictures. It is ANIB and the box is the dark blue type. This particular one has lived in the safe for so long it shows very little fading.

Of course, on these early blue boxes, the model number is not embossed on the end, like it was a couple years later. I have some K-38s from the late 1950s in blue boxes but those say Model 14 on the end of the box (no paper label).

It is worth noting that the warranty and liability statements on the inside of these boxes are dated April 15, 1955.

As an aside, you won't believe the number of people I come across who think that is the date their gun was made . . .

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

That could be me. LOL!!!!!

__________________
Kenny
Endeavor to persevere.

Lee, thanks for the B/B box #66079. I always call those black boxes, but have never seen one that looks the least bit blue yet.

That box reinforces my thought that target stocked K frames needed to be shipped in an N frame box. The longer target stocks will not fit in the Gold boxes. I have no idea how the factory shipped target stocked Masterpiece revolvers before the advent of the B/B boxes?

Attached Images

1951 K38 Heavy Masterpiece.jpg (130.7 KB, 74 views)

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

Gary
The stocks were shipped off the gun, wrapped in tissue paper and enclosed in the box below and in front of the yoke of the revolver.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I also have several K and N Frame target guns that shipped in the 1955 time frame in the Blue/Black boxes. Just a reminder that the Highway Patrolman and the Combat Magnum both shipped in the mid 1950's in the blue/black boxes.

With that said, I would fully expect that a 1948 shipped K-22 Masterpiece would have shipped in a Gold box.

There were also some burgundy two piece boxes that housed some of the early post war Outdoorsmans and Heavy Duties. I think I've also seen a couple of those burgundy boxes used for N-Frame .357's and some of the Target .45 ACP revolvers as well.

__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan

I gotta tell you Jack, that I have tried to stuff those targets inside a gold box with no luck. They seem just too big? They are also thicker than the box is tall at 1.6" for stocks and 1.3" for box. So do they fit in two pieces somewhere I have not tried?

Attached Images

	P1010002.jpg (119.1 KB, 104 views)
	P1010003.jpg (112.2 KB, 85 views)

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

I just don't know what to tell you. I'm sure that many moons ago I was able to duplicate what I believe was the shipping department's practice. It seems obvious from your photos that something is amiss with my memory. Next time I have a bunch of boxes and revolvers out of the safe, I'll fiddle with it again and let you know the results.

Maybe they had some deeper boxes. But, if so, why not just ship the gun wearing the stocks? I'm sure they didn't do that . . .

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Well, I had my stuff out ans found one way to tightly fit the stocks by turning them over, but they are tight in the corner and hit the front sight and the barrel rib. Even if they were wrapped, it would seem that many would almost certainly be damaged or scratched during shipment.

All Masterpiece gold boxes that I have ran across were 4 hole corner rivets, and the box would not close completely with the thick Target stocks, BUT would close enough maybe to ship? The Blue/Black N frame 5 hole corner riveted boxes would have been an answer in 1955 and later, but those early 1950s shipments ramain a mystery? I have one unmarked solid blue N frame box with a K38 Combat Masterpiece label on the end. I do not know when those blue "repair" boxes were introduced, but if this one is original, it pre-date model numbered Masterpiece revolvers.

My guess is that from the introduction of the K frame target stocks until 1955, most were shipped in the burgandy N frame boxes that were available from 1946 until 1975 according to SCSW4. Anyway, may be a boring subject to most, but it is interesting to me.

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

... as a box enthusiast, very interesting to me as well.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience.

__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan

A couple of photos I found on the 'net. Forgive me if they were taken by any members here but they show the blue/black boxes with the 5 hole corner staples and a K-38 with Target Stocks. Unfortunately the serial number on these examples is not known.

Attached Images

	S&W K-38 Tall Blue Box for Target Stocks Label Variation.jpg (94.4 KB, 663 views)
	S&W K-38 Target Stocks in Blue Box.jpg (175.8 KB, 95 views)

Thanks Walter. Those images would likely be from 1955 to 1957 Masterpiece revolvers. I have a similar label on an unmarked blue 5 hole riveted box that also fits a 6" K38. SCSW4 states those solid line boxes were used from 1957 to 1966, but Lee stated they may well would have started 2 years earlier. The hard box/gun combo to find is a factory Masterpiece with Target stocks and the box it was shipped in before 1955.

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

That one is mine and it is for SN K140802. I have not lettered or dated it... Here are some more photos from that photo session:







UPDATED - It shipped in May 1952.

__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan

140,XXX was built in 1952. That is the plain box that no one has commented on yet. Do you know if it is original to your gun? Blue boxes supposedly did not start until 1955 and they had silver printing and a solid border. Yours is more like a plain rapair return box from post-1955 except for the interior printing?? Mysteries continue to pop up.

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

In the interest of demonstrating the sheer folly of discussing or debating what S&W may or may not have done at any particular point in time, know that K-22 Masterpiece #K253444 was shipped January 10, 1956 to Belknap Hardware Co. in Louisville KY in a blue box.

Ralph Tremaine

Hi folks, thank you for all the comments. I did not realize there would be that much discussion on this topic but having the right box for a gun does make a big difference so I guess I should not be surprised. My gun's serial number is K58xxx and I did call Smith and they told me the mfg was 1948. Based on all the comments here the correct box would be a gold colored one. The grips are original so if I ever find a gold box the gun should fit nicely. I'll keep the blue box the gun was sold with and someday maybe I'll have something that will fit it and be correct for that period box. In the meantime I am heading to the range to enjoy my new K-22. Thanks again.

Salmon, You will find K22 gold boxes all the time on ebay. Assuming that your gun has Magna stocks, it will fit perfectly in any of the gold Masterpiece revolver box. Try to match your gun with the label to make sure it does not state target trigger, target hammer, target stocks, or is for a Heavy Masterpiece. You want the plain end label box. Later guns had all those features available.

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

I updated the ship date (May 1952). I do not know if the box shipped with the gun, but that is how it came to me. I agree that it is a mystery...

__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Lots of great discussion, but let's cut to the chase and the original question. A 1948 K-22 Masterpiece should have shipped in a gold box. Here is mine, s/n K40403. However, my gold box is not original to the revolver- I picked it up on eBay for a decent price (it's for K25044 as you can see by the wax pencil). For some reason I thought I should have a box for my K-22 and this one was in pretty good shape.

Attached Images

	P1000938.jpg (56.8 KB, 26 views)
	P1000942.jpg (82.8 KB, 23 views)
	IMG_0313.jpg (146.0 KB, 29 views)
	IMG_0314.jpg (122.6 KB, 32 views)
	IMG_0315.jpg (128.4 KB, 28 views)

Yep, gold box.....
Here are some that I have documented in that period:
- K38118 - two-piece gold picture box, end printed “Smith & Wesson – K22 Masterpiece - Blue Finish - 6” Barrel” Gold corner reinforcements –Instructions inside lid in English and Spanish
- K49156 - two-piece gold picture box, both ends printed “Smith & Wesson – K22 Masterpiece - Blue Finish - 6” Barrel” Gold corner reinforcements –Instructions inside lid in English and Spanish
- K52695 - two-piece gold picture box, w/glued label on end “Smith & Wesson – K-22 Masterpiece – Six Inch Barrel……Blue Finish - Target Hammer”

So that brackets the era pretty well on both ends. The K-22 should not have originally come in a blue box.
Blue boxes came on stage in 1953. Both gold and blue boxes shared the stage that year. If anyone wishes SN's to substantiate that, just let me know. My data is a bit long in the tooth, but it hasn't changed.

__________________
NRA Endowment Member

Here's the oldest one I have, 1952 with its original box, serial number K154XX.

Correction - this is from 1947.

Attached Images

	image1.jpg (82.3 KB, 29 views)
	image0.jpg (62.6 KB, 21 views)

__________________
SWCA#3969

Here is a strange box while we are on the subject of boxes. This is the box for my pre M45. It is a box for a M&P with a 22 sticker on it. My factory letter states the M45 as a M10 in 22 caliber. 15 shipped. Big Larry

Attached Images

Modified M45 box.jpg (126.4 KB, 43 views)

I have a K22 Masterpiece, 4 screw, 6” barrel, from 1956 that also was shipped in a blue/black S&W 2 piece box.

Attached Images

	IMG_2782.jpg (86.3 KB, 36 views)
	IMG_2781.jpg (69.7 KB, 24 views)
	IMG_2779.jpg (92.2 KB, 23 views)

__________________
James
On the Llano Estacado

It may be a bit older than you think..... I'm envisioning that serial number to be around 1947.
I have SN K 14273 which dates to 1947 in the safe. They cranked out about 18,000 "K's" that year.
I have documented K15439 as having a two-piece gold picture box, end printed Smith & Wesson – K22 Masterpiece - Blue Finish - 6” Barrel, and shipping in 1947.

__________________
NRA Endowment Member

Agreed. The lowest number that I know of that shipped in 1948 was K18061. It shipped in April 1948. It is very possible that some with lower numbers shipped earlier that year and they did not ship in serial order. I show some in the K11000 range that shipped in December 1947.

Maybe. The usual number cited is around 10,000 K-22 Masterpiece units shipping in 1947.

We know that the K-38 did not start shipping until February 1948, even though a small handful were actually assembled in June 1947. Full production of the K-38 Masterpiece started in May 1948.

1947 was the year of the K-22.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I got curious and looked at page 68 in the SCSW 5th Edition. It repeats what was in the 4th Edition, i.e., 1957-1966 Blue Two-Piece S&W Box. In the text, it says, "It was possibly introduced to coincide with the advent of model numbering . . ."

I believe we have significant evidence to demonstrate that isn't the case. Too many blue boxes have shown up housing guns that shipped before 1957, some with the April 15, 1955, date on the warranty and liability statements.

Here is another interesting point. I have in front of me as I write this, a K-38 Masterpiece in its original blue box. This unit shipped in November 1956. The box DOES NOT HAVE the warranty and liability statement printed on the inside of the box top. But - get this - inside the box is a warranty registration card that does have both the Statement of Liability and the Warranty paragraph, along with the April 15, 1955, date on it. The implication is that the boxes were manufactured prior to the adoption of those statements. The company then shipped the gun with the card in the box to ensure that the customer knew about those statements. The blue boxes with those statements printed in the lid had to have been made later, eliminating the need for that particular card to be inserted into the boxes.

The plot thickens.

They DID NOT stop inserting that card. I have a Model 14-1, also in its original box. It shipped in April 1962. The liability and warranty statements with the 1955 date are printed inside the box, BUT ON THE BOTTOM portion of the two-piece box, not inside the top, which is blank. This box also contained the warranty registration card that is identical to the one I described above that shipped in 1956.

I also have a Model 14 that shipped in July 1959. The box has the same information printed inside the box lid as my 1956 K-38 mentioned above (no warranty & liability statement). This is the one that has the pasted end label calling it a "Heavy Masterpiece." Obviously, it is an older box, but is the correct box, indicated by the serial number on the bottom.

While we are at it, I'll mention that the detailed instructions about using the gun, printed on the inside of the box top is the same in the 1956 box and the 1959 box. It differs slightly from what is on the inside of the box top for my Masterpiece revolvers that shipped in gold boxes. One gold example is sitting here on the bench with me - that one shipped in February 1951. In both the gold and blue boxes, the information is in English and Spanish; English on the left, Spanish on the right.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

In addition to what you said above, we know that it is not accurate, as BOTH the Highway Patrolman Revolver and the Combat Magnum both shipped in two-piece blue (blue-gray) boxes and they were shipping in 1954 and 1955 respectively.

__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Thanks for the info - I was looking at the wrong column. You are correct, 1947 for mine. I will letter mine now to check it out - it's in really nice shape and all original. I have not lettered any of my Masterpieces but I guess it's time.

__________________
SWCA#3969

Here is my contribution for 1947.....
SN 14273. It came with stags on it, and the original grips were in another box with another 4-line K-22 that came with the deal. Sometimes it just makes sense to pick up the whole mess. (I hope I or the previous owners didn't mix up the box tops...)

IMG_1402.jpg



IMG_1396.jpg

__________________
NRA Endowment Member

I read somewhere that the blue boxes with nothing on the outside of the lid were for use by the repair department for returns to customers. But here is one with a glue on label and a retail price tag. Has the warranty and user info printed inside both halves and the S/N on the outside of the bottom half. Did they just run out of box tops with the silver printing that day?

chiefdave

Keep in mind that as far as we know, the box manufacturing was contracted out. With more than one supplier making them, it isn't too surprising that there are variations.

Just a thought.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

So Gold boxes ran for 19 years ,, that’s a heck of a run.

S & W had the TS fitment problem with N frames as well. The gun won't go in the box with the targets installed on the gun. I'll have to go down to see what is printed inside the box.

Attached Images

	IMG_1034 (2).jpg (74.7 KB, 19 views)
	IMG_1035 (2).jpg (49.8 KB, 19 views)
	IMG_1037 (2).jpg (47.7 KB, 20 views)

To Richard's point, here's an example. This CM shipped April 17, 1956 (inside of box labeled April 15, 1955). Does not appear to me to be the "black" or B/B color that Lee refers to above.

Mike

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

The comment that the factory never threw anything away probably fits here. Several other box colors and designs overlapped the Gold Box, but a slow seller would probably have gold boxes available for a long time until all gone. A few years ago, several new-old-stock K32 Masterpiece gold boxes hit the market, obviously they outlived the production of the K32 and ultimately got out of the factory and into private hands.

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515