My new shooter M1917 *Update: Range report in post #20

tlawler · #1 06-09-2020, 07:49 PM

I’ve been looking for a decent shooter grade M1917 and happened on this one locally. It’s an obvious refinish(they even blued the hammer and trigger), but the numbers match and it’s got a good tight lockup. Serial number is 1206XX, so I think that’s about late 1918 or early 1919? I’ve been reading a lot of posts about the M1917’s, but I have a lot to learn about them. I also snagged a M625 yesterday, I’ll post about it in the proper forum. I was looking for a .45ACP revolver for awhile, then these two came along. Like the saying goes, when it rains, it pours!

tlawler · #2 06-09-2020, 07:52 PM

Some more pictures.

tenntex32 · #3 06-09-2020, 08:02 PM

Now that's a heckuva reblue!

Due to the "A" stamped on the left forward side of the frame, and the added numbers on the barrel flat, it was most likely an arsenal reworked example with the coarser "parkerized" rework finish, and then at some point later highly polished/reblued for a civilian owner.

How many other parts have the added "2147" number stamped on them. I have a few arsenal reworked Colt M1917 examples with a single letter stamped where your "A" is, and they have the refurb added digits stamped on many of their parts!

Cool, and one would probably need shades to shoot it in the sunlight!

Dale

Dewy12 · #4 06-09-2020, 08:05 PM

Man I would have loved to have found that. The perfect shooter. Enjoy

Hondo44 · #5 06-10-2020, 04:39 AM

Great shooter.

You'll likely find the arsenal # and letter in the yoke as well.

It's always intrigued me: The arsenal refinish stamped letter under the barrel, whether A, S, R, or whatever is always stamped upside down from the arsenal # on those I've seen.

tlawler · #6 06-10-2020, 05:33 AM

Thanks for the comments guys.

Should I have any concerns about running factory power level loads through it, or should I stick to lower power level handloads?

Also, I’d like to at least restore the hammer and trigger back to the original case color. Can I just strip the bluing to reveal the case color underneath?

StrawHat · #7 06-10-2020, 05:43 AM

To restore the casehardening, the hammer and trigger would need to be polished and then casehardened. Not an inexpensive process. The Areenal refinish is part of the history of that revolver. I would suggest you leave it be.

I have several 1917s, Military and Commercial. I run hardball through them or equivalent reloads. Nothing hotter. If I want to shoot hooter stuff I have some ACP revolvers that can do that.

Kevin

tlawler · #8 06-10-2020, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrawHat

To restore the casehardening, the hammer and trigger would need to be polished and then casehardened. Not an inexpensive process. The Areenal refinish is part of the history of that revolver. I would suggest you leave it be.

I have several 1917s, Military and Commercial. I run hardball through them or equivalent reloads. Nothing hotter. If I want to shoot hooter stuff I have some ACP revolvers that can do that.

Kevin

I’ll just leave it be then. I was thinking it would be just stripping the blue and the case hardened color would already be there.

Any ideas on the value for insurance purposes? I traded for it, so I only have the value of the piece I traded for it to go by.

OldChief · #9 06-10-2020, 08:59 AM

Beautiful find, you really have something there, I'm sure it will shoot as good as it looks, enjoy it.

Hondo44 · #10 06-10-2020, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlawler

I’ll just leave it be then. I was thinking it would be just stripping the blue and the case hardened color would already be there.

Any ideas on the value for insurance purposes? I traded for it, so I only have the value of the piece I traded for it to go by.

Yeah, unless it was a lot more collectible condition I wouldn't pay for CCH either. Especially since it no longer has the arsenal finish for military collectibility! And in my opinion, looks a lot better anyway with the blue refinish.

So what I do with blued hammer and trigger is just strip the blue off. But don't polish it off, the shiny surface won't look anymore factory than the blue. Strip it off with Naval Jelly which will leave it with a gray patina that looks a lot more like natural wear.

Insure for $1000 unless you had more than that into your trade, which I highly doubt.

tlawler · #11 06-10-2020, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Yeah, unless it was a lot more collectible condition I wouldn't pay for CCH either. Especially since it no longer has the arsenal finish for military collectibility! And in my opinion, looks a lot better anyway with the blue refinish.

So what I do with blued hammer and trigger is just strip the blue off. But don't polish it off, the shiny surface won't look anymore factory than the blue. Strip it off with Naval Jelly which will leave it with a gray patina that looks a lot more like natural wear.

Insure for $1000 unless you had more than that into your trade, which I highly doubt.

Jim, thanks for the Naval Jelly idea. I think I’ll try it after a range trip to see how nice it shoots. Do you think I’m pretty close on the date of late 1918 to early 1919?

Muley Gil · #12 06-10-2020, 12:11 PM

To create a mock CC finish look, once the hammer and trigger are stripped, use a Q tip to make little, random cold blue spots.

sodacan · #13 06-10-2020, 12:18 PM

Nice pickup. They're fun shooters, and it's really cool to shoot a piece of history. Standard velocity ammo only. Enjoy it.

Scharfschuetzer · #14 06-10-2020, 12:29 PM

Wow! You did well with that 1917. From what I can see in the photos, that refinish job was well done.

I have collectable 1917s (Colt & S&W), but the one I shoot is a Brazilian 1917. While the finish is... well South American; the lockup, bore and charge holes are perfect and it shoots to the point of aim perfectly with my cast 200 grain SWC bullets.

Housepuss · #15 06-10-2020, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlawler

Jim, thanks for the Naval Jelly idea. I think I’ll try it after a range trip to see how nice it shoots. Do you think I’m pretty close on the date of late 1918 to early 1919?

Your gun should have left the factory in October of 1918.

Hondo44 · #16 06-10-2020, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlawler

Jim, thanks for the Naval Jelly idea. I think I’ll try it after a range trip to see how nice it shoots. Do you think I’m pretty close on the date of late 1918 to early 1919?

I agree with Housepuss's date.

Muley Gil's is a great idea that I forgot about. I put a little oil on the fresh gray surface after stripping with N jelly.

Then I strip a lot of the cotton off of the Q-tip and dab thammer and trigger with cold blue or make swirls with it. You'll get uneven bluing of straw to dark blue staining that can closely resemble CCH. Look at a case hardened hammer as you do it to copy the color pattern.

You can also play a propane torch flame over it unevenly to get straw, reds, and blues. It's not hot enough to affect the hardening and stay away from the bottom of the hammer.

Muley Gil · #17 06-10-2020, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

I agree with Housepuss's date.

Muley Gil's is a great idea that I forgot about. I put a little oil on the fresh gray surface after stripping with N jelly.

Then I strip a lot of the cotton off of the Q-tip and dab thammer and trigger with cold blue or make swirls with it. You'll get uneven bluing of straw to dark blue staining that can closely resemble CCH. Look at a case hardened hammer as you do it to copy the color pattern.

You can also play a propane torch flame over it unevenly to get straw, reds, and blues. It's not hot enough to affect the hardening and stay away from the bottom of the hammer.

I like to secure small parts in my vise, using smooth metal jaw pads, when using the torch. The vise acts as a heat sink to protect hardened areas.

tlawler · #18 06-11-2020, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenntex32

Now that's a heckuva reblue!

Due to the "A" stamped on the left forward side of the frame, and the added numbers on the barrel flat, it was most likely an arsenal reworked example with the coarser "parkerized" rework finish, and then at some point later highly polished/reblued for a civilian owner.

How many other parts have the added "2147" number stamped on them. I have a few arsenal reworked Colt M1917 examples with a single letter stamped where your "A" is, and they have the refurb added digits stamped on many of their parts!

Cool, and one would probably need shades to shoot it in the sunlight!

Dale

The frame, yoke, cylinder and barrel are all stamped with 2147.

tenntex32 · #19 06-11-2020, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlawler

The frame, yoke, cylinder and barrel are all stamped with 2147.

My Colt arsenal reworked examples have added rework numbers visible on some of the internal parts too when their sideplates are removed!

Be sure to update us with a proper range report if you shoot it soon.

Dale

tlawler · #20 06-14-2020, 02:15 PM

Finally made it to the range today. My son and daughter are headed back to Tallahassee in the morning, so we took advantage of a couple hours of free time. We shot the M1917, the 625, and a Sig 1911 RCS that I picked up. I didn’t like the way he was eyeing that 1911, but that’s another story. I’m amazed how accurate the M1917 is. Most of my shooting was SA, so that added to my accuracy. Right from the start, I was having an issue with the DA trigger. Very heavy, but I think it was due to the moonclips dragging. Without a clip in it, the DA trigger is smooth. I’m going to investigate the clip issue, as there were a few my 625 didn’t like either. But what a smooth shooter! Almost like shooting a 6” K-frame with mild .38 wadcutters. I was shooting factory Federal that came with it as part of the deal. First time I’ve shot factory ammo in a couple of years! I only put about six clips through it and my son put two through it. I didn’t want to push it too much with factory ammo. I’m going to load and shoot some milder rounds once I get the kinks worked out. I must say it was a bit humbling to hold and shoot such a piece of American history. I gave my son a little background on it and he was impressed. We were a little pressed for time; my older daughter was calling and bugging me. I promised her we would go out and get tattoos together before she went back, but that’s another story. Stay tuned...

S&W ucla · #21 06-14-2020, 02:19 PM

Nice Chootin' and Gun!

tenntex32 · #22 06-14-2020, 02:49 PM

Looks like you guys had a great trip to the range!

Dale

OldChief · #23 06-14-2020, 08:14 PM

Again, nice shooting. Next time move it out to 10 or 15 yards and I bet you'll get as good results.

J. R. WEEMS · #24 06-14-2020, 08:44 PM

Maybe? Was it from the beginning. or after a few clips?? Since you stated only six clips were fired I am wondering. Two things, are the clips after market gun show clips? And, did you load the clips by hand? If by hand, the case might not have been fully inserted. I found that a couple times just the other day. I invested in some of TK Customs clips, and their demooning and loading tools. No more problems so far. Just a thought. Some mighty fine shooting there regardless.

I came to the same conclusion as you have. No factory loadings through mine and NO hot reloads. No reason to. I also decided to only shoot lead in mine. My bore looks good and the gun shoots well but with the lands and grooves as shallow as the are, I just dont think any sort of plated bullets are a good idea. I want this piece to last me, and with no problems. What are those fine looking stocks?? Happy shooting!

tlawler · #25 06-14-2020, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. R. WEEMS

Maybe? Was it from the beginning. or after a few clips?? Since you stated only six clips were fired I am wondering. Two things, are the clips after market gun show clips? And, did you load the clips by hand? If by hand, the case might not have been fully inserted. I found that a couple times just the other day. I invested in some of TK Customs clips, and their demooning and loading tools. No more problems so far. Just a thought. Some mighty fine shooting there regardless.

I came to the same conclusion as you have. No factory loadings through mine and NO hot reloads. No reason to. I also decided to only shoot lead in mine. My bore looks good and the gun shoots well but with the lands and grooves as shallow as the are, I just dont think any sort of plated bullets are a good idea. I want this piece to last me, and with no problems. What are those fine looking stocks?? Happy shooting!

The moonclips are a mix of some that came with the gun and some I recently traded for. They were loaded with a Brownells remooner. After I demoon all of them, I’m going to inspect the ones I marked as troublesome and see if I can find a common thread. The grips are bonded ivory and came with the gun. I think it’s a fancy name for mostly plastic with a pinch of ivory dust thrown in so they can call it that. I must say that I didn’t like them at first, but they’re growing on me.

J. R. WEEMS · #26 06-14-2020, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlawler

The moonclips are a mix of some that came with the gun and some I recently traded for. They were loaded with a Brownells remooner. After I demoon all of them, I’m going to inspect the ones I marked as troublesome and see if I can find a common thread. The grips are bonded ivory and came with the gun. I think it’s a fancy name for mostly plastic with a pinch of ivory dust thrown in so they can call it that. I must say that I didn’t like them at first, but they’re growing on me.

Yeah, I looked at a pair of those for a Browning Hi-Power once. They felt funny and smelled worse

I never touched a pair again.

Kinman · #27 06-14-2020, 10:50 PM

If your not careful with you loading and demooning you can bend them which will bugger your reload. I've found the best way to truly straighten moon clips is to use a piece of glass or mirror, if you really want them straight put a little oil on the glass and look from underneath to see the high points, then bend the high tab down until you get everything evenly coated with oil, flip it over and check again, then wipe off and store in a box to KEEP them square. I good friend of mine lost a state patrol sponsored shooting match due to a bent moon clip, he switched to Auto Rim and never looked back. I followed his advise and shoot .45 Auto Rim almost exclusively through my .45 Revolvers.
You should be good to go with any .45 standard velocity hardball, stay away from +P ammo. Although if you are using your revolver for self defense +P ammo is a good idea, a box of 50 would give you plenty of ammunition to see how the piece shoots the hotter stuff, just don't make a habit of shooting the truly hot stuff, it will loosen the old girl up unnecessarily.
I run a couple of cylinders of Federal HST 230 gr. through mine from time to time and usually carry those when using one my .45 revolvers for carry. I plink with .45 AR using plated bullets, its probably cheaper than shooting my .22 target pistol @ $13 a box.

StrawHat · #28 06-15-2020, 05:47 AM

In my 1917s, I use hardball only. If I feel the need to shoot +P or hotter, I have more modern ACP revolvers for that. My ACP revolvers span a century, 1918 to 2018.

Moon clips are like magazines. Get more than you think you need. Bend one? Toss it and grab a new one. Especially if you plan on carrying it. Don’t cheap out on safety equipment. My EDC is a 22-4 or comparable. I would never consider using a straightened clip for carrying.

Ranch Products is the manufacturer I trust. In quantity they are less than $0.50 a piece.

Store your empty moon clips flat. I use several pill bottles to keep mine. When stored in the bottle there is less chance for the arms to mesh and tangle and less chance of bending.

Kevin