Pre-War 357 Magnum Appreciation Thread

[RKmesa]

Bob:

That 4.5" RM is beautiful and the grain in the grips is stunning. Are the grips original or are they KB repro's? I look forward to hearing more about this beautiful revolver.

[JayCeeNC]

That's a stunning RM, congrats on your purchase!

[j38]

Bob,

That's a real beauty! As RKmesa mentioned, the stocks are special. I like the odd 4 1/2" barrel length. I don't recall seeing one of those before.

Thanks for the post, and I'll look forward to more pictures when you get that old RM home.

Jerry

[ElmerKeith]

@Marvin Gardens:

Do you have any idea who the pre-owners werer? Is there a story behind the gun?

It looks almost like it left the factory yesterday. Has the gun been refinished?

[glypnir]

Well, this thread's too pretty. I'm going to have to put up the picture of the old lady with her rubber boots on.



This one was shipped to Grainger Texas, back before they even had Baughman sights, so it's got a Patridge.

My wife says she may still use it for personal protection from time to time. It's worked before.

[RKmesa]

Originally Posted by glypnir

Well, this thread's too pretty. I'm going to have to put up the picture of the old lady with her rubber boots on.

I would love to see her with her Sunday-go-to-Meeting shoes on. I'll bet that in her day - she was a real looker...

Thanks for posting her, even if you caught her in her pajamas, walking out in the rain with her boots on to get the paper. And, glad to hear that she is still holding down a real job, with real lead heading down her tube on occasion...

[JSW]

What a great bunch of old .357’s in this thread! A lot of great old guns! I like them all but especially that 4 ½ inch that looks like new, can’t be but a handful ever made in that barrel length!

[RKmesa]

6" October 1936:





May 1937 RM - Original barrel length was 6.5" - cut to 5" - Currently sports KB Ropers:

[Hammerdown]

Hello
This one was found at the annual S&WCA Meeting it Troy this year. It shipped to The Bowen Hardware Company of Augusta, Georgia on December 3, 1935 with a Box of .357 Magnum ammo and was sighted in at 25 Yards Point of aim. I had the original set of Walter Roper Grips lying around awaiting the right Gun and the Service grips were a Birthday Present to me by a fellow S&WCA Member that I got Back in August..

[Michael Stern]

Here is one that went to Cleveland architect Robert Smith on 1/18/38. Roy tracked down not only the original order form (including the specification for the humpback hammer), invoice and store receipt, but also correspondence between Mr. Smith and S&W regarding the fact that the gun, as he received it, had a faulty sear. Smith sent it back and, after a month, S&W returned it to him ... and it still wasn't fixed. (The letters are a revolver version of Carfax!) Finally they made it right and he went on to win this shooting medal from the East Cleveland Revolver Club, the back of which is inscribed, "R.W. Smith – 1938 - .357 Mag." Roy also sent along a chatty letter from D.B. Wesson to Smith talking about how "Sasha did get two tigres [sic] on his last trip with his Magnum…"

[lowriderfxr]

Very, very cool Michael. Hey , what do you expect from a 60.00 revolver?

[DHENRY]

This one belonged to the guy who invented and patented the automotive differential and the bevel-gear drive (!)
# 675, from December of 1935.
Don

[Dave T]

I have carefully read through every post and looked at each picture in this very interesting thread. Thank you to each and every contributor. I can honestly say, if I had a pre-War 357 Magnum I would sure appreciate it. (smiley face goes here)

Dave

[digi-shots]

Here are some pics of one that I got a few months ago. It's a non-registered model that shipped July 29, 1940.

I still need to get some vintage pre-war Magnas for it.

[RKmesa]

Originally Posted by DHENRY

# 675, from December of 1935.

Don: What a beautiful 8.75" package. Does it letter with both sets of stocks and the grip adaptor?

Thanks for sharing.

[JayCeeNC]

Linda, that's a fightin' gun you've got there. I can just see it riding the hip of a Texas Ranger in that Myres rig. Very nice!

[DHENRY]

Richard,
Indeed it does.
The owner was a pal of Doug Wesson.
Don

[bettis1]

Originally Posted by Michael Stern

Here is one that went to Cleveland architect Robert Smith on 1/18/38. Roy tracked down not only the original order form (including the specification for the humpback hammer), invoice and store receipt, but also correspondence between Mr. Smith and S&W regarding the fact that the gun, as he received it, had a faulty sear. Smith sent it back and, after a month, S&W returned it to him ... and it still wasn't fixed. (The letters are a revolver version of Carfax!) Finally they made it right and he went on to win this shooting medal from the East Cleveland Revolver Club, the back of which is inscribed, "R.W. Smith – 1938 - .357 Mag." Roy also sent along a chatty letter from D.B. Wesson to Smith talking about how "Sasha did get two tigres [sic] on his last trip with his Magnum…"

Michael,
Remember that Reg. # 10 was sent to Shasha A Siemel, a noted big game hunter from South America. I'd bet a bunch that is the "Sasha" that Wesson was referring to, especially since the comment about killing two "tigres" (the Spanish word for tiger).

Perhaps it was D. B.'s way of sticking the needle in Smith and telling him that "this guy bets his life on these guns and you can't even punch a hole in paper without complaining".

Bob

[Michael Stern]

Bob, I suspect you're right. But Wesson does conclude his letter with this respectful line: "Congratulations on your medals. I trust they'll prove to be the start of a large collection."

[Jim_O]

For Christmas in 1936, Ed McGivern gave his dear friend Walter Groff a very special present.... A 357, RM#1704, SR #497XX. S&W charged McGivern $39.00 - no charge for the engraving....

He later gave Walter another special gift. A custom leather case made for specially for McGivern and presented to him by "Tio" Sam Myres. Ed McGivern "re-gifted" this box at some point later to Walter. This special .357 now had a fitting case to preserve it.

Peggy Groff passed it on to my father in 1979 - for Christmas....

Hope you enjoy the photos,

Jim

[RKmesa]

Jim:

Thanks for sharing. I assume that the certificate is in the tube? Also looks to be a 6.5" to 7.5" with a (surprise) McGivern front sight. I am not familiar with Walter Groff - do you know what his relationship was to McGivern? BTW, the RM looks to be in great condition and well cared for.

[Jim_O]

Originally Posted by RKmesa

Jim:

Thanks for sharing. I assume that the certificate is in the tube? Also looks to be a 6.5" to 7.5" with a (surprise) McGivern front sight. I am not familiar with Walter Groff - do you know what his relationship was to McGivern? BTW, the RM looks to be in great condition and well cared for.

Yes, it has a McGivern gold bead front sight - would it be anything else??? 6 1/2" bbl.

The RM certificate is in the tube. I added a scan of the original order to S&W to the original post. Thought it might be interesting....

Walter and Peggy Groff were some of Ed McGivern's best friends for over 25 years. Walter was Ed's understudy, friend and sometimes benefactor. Walter Groff is prominent in Ed's book in both the text and photos.

Glad you enjoyed the pics....

Jim

[wildsailer]

thank you all so much for sharing!

[RKmesa]

New Photos:





I really really love Keith's Work!

[bettis1]

Richard,

Beautiful work by Keith (as we have come to expect from that artist!), classic Registered Magnum, and a long box to boot! Hard to improve on that picture.

Bob

[RKmesa]

Originally Posted by Bob Horton

This one shipped November 7, 1936 with a four and one-half inch barrel.

Bob:

With your post, I too went back and looked at all of the beautiful 357's the members have posted in this thread and I have to say that your 4.5" makes me hold out hope that my luck will continue until I can find one like that. I know that some people have N-Frame-itis and S&W-itis on this forum, But lately I have developed a severe case of REG-itis/NonRM-itis and the more I acquire, the worse the disease seems to get.

[kwill1911]

Jim,

Would it be possible to post a scan or a picture of the Groff certificate?

Thanks,
Kevin Williams

[Sgt 127]

I don't know how I neglected to post in this thread...



UHP:



Originally shipped to LA SP and then carried by a Dallas PD Officer who retired as a Deputy Chief:

[shawn mccarver]

Originally Posted by Bob Horton

Thanks RK.

They're the originals. David and I talked quite a bit about this gun over the phone, but as has always been the case with David and Lee, the gun was nicer than I expected.

I really wish people would stop bragging about David Carroll's guns being better than described.

The more that happens, the more people will start buying from David, and the less likely it will be for those of us that know how he is to get any good stuff from him.

All kidding aside, David is absolutely meticulous in his descriptions and representations of any gun he sells. As I have said before, I think he would sooner cut off his own arm that let a gun go out the door that is not as good as or better than represented. I wish all gun dealers were as honest as David!

Merry Christmas, David.

Shawn McCarver
SWCA #765

[45Wheelgun]

Originally Posted by Sgt 127

I
Originally shipped to LA SP and then carried by a Dallas PD Officer who retired as a Deputy Chief:

Looking at the grip uneven grip wear, I am thinking the Deputy was a lefty.

[Sgt 127]

Originally Posted by 45Wheelgun

Looking at the grip uneven grip wear, I am thinking the Deputy was a lefty.

Actually, the wear is even on both sides. It was much discussed when I first showed this gun off. It's possible that both grips were sanded down to help preserve some skin on the shooters hands. Who knows. I know it got the **** carried out of it since 1936....

[Jim_O]

Originally Posted by kwill1911

Jim,

Would it be possible to post a scan or a picture of the Groff certificate?

Thanks,
Kevin Williams

Unfortunately (for me), this RM, case and RM certificate are in the hands of Amoskeag for their March auction, so I won't be able to post it.

Jim

[kwill1911]

Jim,

Thanks for the follow up. Do you happen to know the lot number?

Thanks,
Kevin

[Jim_O]

Originally Posted by kwill1911

Jim,

Thanks for the follow up. Do you happen to know the lot number?

Thanks,
Kevin

No. They haven't started doing that catalog yet. I'll also have my McGivern K22, K38, one Colt and 3 H&R's in it (all McGivern's). Breaks my heart, but necessary.

Keep an eye on their website if you are interested.

Jim

[RKmesa]

Updating the thread with a factory refinished Non RM shipped to Boston MA:

[RKmesa]

[RKmesa]

Latest 8.75" - RM 4405:

[JayCeeNC]

Gorgeous long-barrel RM, Richard. You've got quite a collection.

[RKmesa]

Shipped in July 1940:





Would love to see any new ones that you may have.

[dacoontz]

Richard,
Any chance you could show us or tell us what is stamped on the inside of the barrel lug under the extractor and or under the grips, if you happen to have the cylinder open or grips off. I don't blame you if you want to just leave it be, if it were mine I would likely hardly touch it. It's so nice I would be afraid to do anything but simply admire it. From and educational standpoint, I would like to know how the factory marked this particular gun from this period. Thanks for the pics, it's a beauty.

[RKmesa]

Originally Posted by dacoontz

Richard,
Any chance you could show us or tell us what is stamped on the inside of the barrel lug under the extractor and or under the grips, if you happen to have the cylinder open or grips off. I don't blame you if you want to just leave it be, if it were mine I would likely hardly touch it. It's so nice I would be afraid to do anything but simply admire it. From and educational standpoint, I would like to know how the factory marked this particular gun from this period. Thanks for the pics, it's a beauty.

The gun looks a bit nicer in the photos than in person and the KB stocks help a ton. Here are a couple of photos...





and a copy of the letter from Roy:

[dacoontz]

Thanks Richard, that's perfect.

[WoodSmith]

RM 989

[calmex]

Hmmm, my old clunker doesn't shine quite so nice as many of the nice examples pictured in this thread, in fact, it's rather weary and weathered. However, it does have a nice history and was passed directly to me from the original owner. Also, it has the distinction of being a Pre-war style Magnum that may have been actually put together during the war. It was certainly shipped after the U.S. entry into the war. A more complete story on it may be found, for those who have not read it yet, under the thread:
Penultimate Pre Postwar Magnum is in Mexico!
I am certainly happy to have it. About the only way I could have afforded to have something like this was if it was given to me (which it was)...but having it keeps me from needing to sell my soul to get one.

[RKmesa]

Originally Posted by calmex

A more complete story on it may be found, for those who have not read it yet, under the thread:
Penultimate Pre Postwar Magnum is in Mexico!

Calmex - that thread on your gun has always been one of my favorites. I have followed it from the start and always read the latest installment with pleasure. I'm glad to see that your letter finally made it into your hands.

Happy New Year!

[calmex]

Originally Posted by RKmesa

Calmex - that thread on your gun has always been one of my favorites. I have followed it from the start and always read the latest installment with pleasure. I'm glad to see that your letter finally made it into your hands.

Happy New Year!

Thank you, RK. Just for you, I'll go add something right now.

[long colt frazier]

Here is one of my RM shipped to Frank Baughman FBI this was the 3rd gun equipped with the buaghman front sight.Notice the hammer and grip that has been adapted by a previous owner.

[RKmesa]

LCF:

The modification to your RM hammer looks an awful lot like the modification this Walsh RM? I have seen photos of several RM's with the hammer modification like yours.

[Nedroe]

Went to the Evansville Board of Public Works & Safety, in May of '39, part of a 13 gun shipment. Shipped with a 4" barrel & magna's, was sent back & re-barelled as a 5" in '42.



Ned

[bettis1]

Originally Posted by RKmesa

LCF:

The modification to your RM hammer looks an awful lot like the modification this Walsh RM? I have seen photos of several RM's with the hammer modification like yours.

Richard,

That is a great picture of Agent Walsh with his RM. There also appears to be a distinct similarity of his gun with the Utah HP gun that Saxon Pig has pictured several times.

There are at least two explanations of why so many of these guns seem to have this modification. 1)Many users came to the same conclusion that it served their purpose to either modify them or have some gunsmith do it. 2) Many users dropped their gun and broke the spur off the hammer. I would discount the latter possibility because the modifications seem to be concentrated in a particular type of handgun (i.e. one used for defensive purposes) and it is hard to imagine that someone who depended upon their firearm to protect themselves would be that careless..

There are numerous examples of hammer spurs being modified to satisfy the users needs. Here is another LEO owned RM that has a different spur.

Bob