I need the help of the Gurus

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Gentlemen and Ladies of course...
I purchased a gun from the usual bidding site. It was listed as a model 1902 M&P, with a manufacturing date of 1903. If you put the 5 digit serial number as a Model 1902, it will confirm a 1903 manufacturing date.
I'm now questioning what it is I actually have? The full shroud around the ejector rod, doesn't seem right to me. The fact that the gun looks so good is another red flag? I was able to confirm the serial number is the same on the butt, cylinder, and barrel, so I don't think it's a Frankenstein gun...

Can someone please help and tell me what this is?
 

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I believe its a 38/44 heavy duty if it is in 38 special. The under-lugged barrel is a give away, first made in 1930 and made up into the middle '50s. This one may have been refinished. They are nice Revolvers, developed for the police to shoot a heavier 38 special. about half way between a 357 Magnum and a 38 special. A special 38 special round was developed , 38 special hi-velocity. The revolver was produced on the 44 special frame in 38 special caliber, It became the M-20 When model numbers were started.
SWCA 892
 
Please let us know the number from the flat bottom of the grip frame?

My guess would be somewhere between the mid-30000s to the high 50000s, which would be correct for an early .38 M & P K frame and also your gun, a .38/44 Heavy Duty N frame. Cool gun. :)
 
That's a refinished Heavy Duty. They were built on the N frame and designed to handle heavier loads than a typical .38 Special.

Based on the first picture, it appears to be a very rare left hand version and the receipt looks like it's in Greek! ;) :D

… or the photo was reversed. That's probably more likely! ;)

Nice stocks!
 
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murphydog said:
Please let us know the number from the flat bottom of the grip frame?

My guess would be somewhere between the mid-30000s to the high 50000s, which would be correct for an early .38 M & P K frame and also your gun, a .38/44 Heavy Duty N frame. Cool gun. :)
Click to expand...
Serial number would be #45368
So what year do you think it was manufactured?
 
This looks much better!

mikepriwer-albums-mlp19-picture23698-img-0327-a.jpg


Mike Priwer
 
Looks like this is the auction?

1903 Smith & Wesson .38 M&P Model of 1902 .38 Spl 5" *AMAZING M&P REVOLVER* - Revolvers at GunBroker.com : 905015788

Definitely a 38/44 Heavy Duty, and refinished. Serial number is ~1934-1935. I have one in the same range... 44xxx.

Surprised that Bryant Ridge got that description so wrong. They usually take a few 'liberties' with their descriptions, but generally have the right model identified.

You scored yourself a very fine shooter. Someone spent a few buck$ for that refinishing job. I would be interested to know if the stocks are original and/or numbered to the gun.
 
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Thank you all for the information!!!
I knew the smarter than me, would know what this is...
It will still be the oldest gun in my humble collection.
As far as refinishing, my LGS looked it over with a magnifying glass and told me if it has been refinished, it was someone who knew what they were doing. No loss of crispness to the lettering, and no rounding at the sharp corners.

All and all, still a beautiful example of S&W's older guns. Proud to have added it to the rotation.
 
Its a beauty! Remove the left grip and look at the grip frame....If you see a mark like 11.47 or 5 56 it means that it was returned to the factory for refinishing in November, 1947 or May of 1956. To me, a factory refinish hurts the value very little.
You got a nice one at a good price!
 
Revolver Rookie said:
As far as refinishing, my LGS looked it over with a magnifying glass and told me if it has been refinished, it was someone who knew what they were doing. No loss of crispness to the lettering, and no rounding at the sharp corners.

All and all, still a beautiful example of S&W's older guns. Proud to have added it to the rotation.
Click to expand...
I'm no guru, but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth again…
It really helped to see the auction photos. It's pretty obvious that your local gun shop doesn't deal with a lot of vintage S&W's. They apparently focused on the lettering/edges and missed the big picture.

Most of the gun looks pretty good. I don't see anything alarming here:

attachment.php


The beveled edge at the front of the ejector rod tip should be in the white, not blued. It's out of focus in this photo, so I can't tell exactly what I'm looking at.

attachment.php


These three photos speak volumes. You'll see that the finish on the sideplate is noticeably different from the rest of the gun. The vertical polishing marks (streaks) where definitely not there when it left S&W. You'll also notice the poor fit of the sideplate and dishing of the sideplate screws. There's a horizontal crease running through the hole behind the trigger guard. S&W would have never allowed that out the door. At the very least, the sideplate was refinished and it wasn't a particularly good job.

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Other than the sideplate, it looks like a pretty nice gun. I'm just offering my honest opinion and am not trying to beat you up. 4" Heavy Duty's are really cool guns and it should make a good shooter. A number of these had the chambers lengthened to accept .357 Magnum cartridges, so you may want to see if it will chamber .357's. The gun is plenty strong to handle them, but collectors want unaltered specimens.
 

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s&wchad said:
That's a refinished Heavy Duty. They were built on the N frame and designed to handle heavier loads than a typical .38 Special.

Based on the first picture, it appears to be a very rare left hand version and the receipt looks like it's in Greek! ;) :D

… or the photo was reversed. That's probably more likely! ;)

Nice stocks!
Click to expand...

I thought I needed a new pair of glasses.
 
s&wchad said:
I'm no guru, but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth again…
It really helped to see the auction photos. It's pretty obvious that your local gun shop doesn't deal with a lot of vintage S&W's. They apparently focused on the lettering/edges and missed the big picture.

Most of the gun looks pretty good. I don't see anything alarming here:

attachment.php


The beveled edge at the front of the ejector rod tip should be in the white, not blued. It's out of focus in this photo, so I can't tell exactly what I'm looking at.

attachment.php


These three photos speak volumes. You'll see that the finish on the sideplate is noticeably different from the rest of the gun. The vertical polishing marks (streaks) where definitely not there when it left S&W. You'll also notice the poor fit of the sideplate and dishing of the sideplate screws. There's a horizontal crease running through the hole behind the trigger guard. S&W would have never allowed that out the door. At the very least, the sideplate was refinished and it wasn't a particularly good job.

attachment.php


attachment.php


attachment.php


Other than the sideplate, it looks like a pretty nice gun. I'm just offering my honest opinion and am not trying to beat you up. 4" Heavy Duty's are really cool guns and it should make a good shooter. A number of these had the chambers lengthened to accept .357 Magnum cartridges, so you may want to see if it will chamber .357's. The gun is plenty strong to handle them, but collectors want unaltered specimens.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much! I knew you guys would tell me the truth. I'm really not upset that the gun has been refinished. I shoot all my guns, and I can't wait to shoot this gun along side my other 38/44 Heavy Duty.
I don't feel beat up, and thank you again for the honest review!!!
 
handejector said:
The whole gun is refinished. It is a decent job compared to most. It is NOT a Factory refinish.
Click to expand...


Another tip for all you guys-

When a gun is reblued using hot salts like this gun, it is of course first polished. Then, before going into the bluing tank, it is run through a boiling tank of water or other cleaner to remove ANY trace of oil. This gun was not boiled long enough, and some oil wept out of the barrel threads. That weeping oil prevented the salts from reaching the steel at the barrel joint and a tiny strip of steel remains in the white ----


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A yoke is made in pieces. There is a joint on the front where the axle is inserted into the arm, shown here on another gun---
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More oil leaked out of that joint on the subject gun, again preventing complete bluing--
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handejector said:
Another tip for all you guys-

When a gun is reblued using hot salts like this gun, it is of course first polished. Then, before going into the bluing tank, it is run through a boiling tank of water or other cleaner to remove ANY trace of oil. This gun was not boiled long enough, and some oil wept out of the barrel threads. That weeping oil prevented the salts from reaching the steel at the barrel joint and a tiny strip of steel remains in the white ----


attachment.php



attachment.php





A yoke is made in pieces. There is a joint on the front where the axle is inserted into the arm, shown here on another gun---
attachment.php





More oil leaked out of that joint on the subject gun, again preventing complete bluing--
attachment.php
Click to expand...

Wow! Thank you very much for the lesson! You guys are the greatest! I'm hooked on the older S&W's so I enjoy every bit of knowledge I can get...
Again thank you very much...
 
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