Help ID this S&W

[EddieHD]

Hello gents,

I would really appreciate your support to ID this S&W and his value as collectible.
Thank you in advance.

Regards

[murphydog]

It appears to be a Target model N frame from before WW II. Here is the additional information we need:

To IDENTIFY your Gun >

[Gunhacker]

You need to provide some more info... what's the caliber marking on the other side of the barrel and serial number on bottom of the grip frame?

If it's .44 caliber, I'm going to guess that it's an early N-Frame known as the .44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model Target.

Being a target model adds value, condition is shooter grade which detracts value. I'm not good a making valuations, so there will likely be someone along that can do a better job of answering your question.

[murphydog]

It has a shrouded extractor rod, so either a 1st or 3rd model if a .44. If original the stocks are from the 1930s which suggests the latter. More information hopefully incoming.

[series guy]

Can’t be a first model as it has the center pin divot in the recoil shield. Possibly an Outdoorsman?

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by murphydog

It appears to be a Target model N frame from before WW II. Here is the additional information we need:

To IDENTIFY your Gun >

Hey Murphydog,
I really appreciate your reply, unfortunatelly I don have the Yoke´s model, sorry.
Regards

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by Gunhacker

You need to provide some more info... what's the caliber marking on the other side of the barrel and serial number on bottom of the grip frame?

If it's .44 caliber, I'm going to guess that it's an early N-Frame known as the .44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model Target.

Being a target model adds value, condition is shooter grade which detracts value. I'm not good a making valuations, so there will likely be someone along that can do a better job of answering your question.

Hey Gunhacker,
I really appreciate your support, the seller says that it´s a 38 SPL.
Regards

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by series guy

Can’t be a first model as it has the center pin divot in the recoil shield. Possibly an Outdoorsman?

Hey Series guy,
I really appreciate your support, If it´s an Outdoorsman would be so cool.
Regards

[mh51]

Based on the .38 caliber, I'd have to go with a 38-44 Outdoorsman. If the grips are numbered to the gun (inside of right grip panel), then it would be from the 1935-1941 time period. Serial number and a few more pics would give us a lot more to work with. Nice find!

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by series guy

Can’t be a first model as it has the center pin divot in the recoil shield. Possibly an Outdoorsman?

Originally Posted by mh51

Based on the .38 caliber, I'd have to go with a 38-44 Outdoorsman. If the grips are numbered to the gun (inside of right grip panel), then it would be from the 1935-1941 time period. Serial number and a few more pics would give us a lot more to work with. Nice find!

Hey Mh51,
I really appreciate your reply.

Gents how to tell if its a HD or Outdoorsman? Which model would be more collectible and why?
Thank you in advance

[JP@AK]

Originally Posted by EddieHD

Gents how to tell if its a HD or Outdoorsman?

The .38/44 Heavy Duty had fixed sights. The .38/44 Outdoorsman's was a target sight revolver.

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by JP@AK

The .38/44 Heavy Duty had fixed sights. The .38/44 Outdoorsman's was a target sight revolver.

Hey J@ak
Thank you for your reply, in this 2 links you can find HDs with target sights:

*Smith & Wesson 38/44 Heavy Duty Post War Double Action | Lot #32523 | Heritage Auctions

Smith & Wesson 38/44 Heavy Duty Model of 1950 "Pre-Model 23" - 38 S&W Special

[Wiregrassguy]

Originally Posted by EddieHD

Hey J@ak
Thank you for your reply, in this 2 links you can find HDs with target sights:

*Smith & Wesson 38/44 Heavy Duty Post War Double Action | Lot #32523 | Heritage Auctions

Smith & Wesson 38/44 Heavy Duty Model of 1950 "Pre-Model 23" - 38 S&W Special

Those are .38 Outdoorsmans, not HDs. The terminology is incorrect.

[Jim Watson]

Right. But then I don't like the "pre-model 23" collectors' made up name, either.

The first one pictured has an odd looking hammer, there appears to be a hole or recess in the spur.

The second one has target grips, not Magna.

The OP's revolver, if .38 is surely a prewar Outdoorsman.

[RKmesa]

For reference, here is a copy of the pre-war Outdoorsman brochure.









As noted by others above:

Outdoorsman = Adjustable Sights (almost always with 6.5" barrels, the few exceptions being some special order 5" barrels)

Heavy Duty = Fixed Sights

The pre-war Outdoorsman is one of the finest revolvers that S&W ever made and it was the test platform that rolled in the Magnum Era.

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy

Those are .38 Outdoorsmans, not HDs. The terminology is incorrect.

Hey Wiregrassguy.
Thank you for your reply.
I thought that those guns sales places would have a correct description.
Regards

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

Right. But then I don't like the "pre-model 23" collectors' made up name, either.

The first one pictured has an odd looking hammer, there appears to be a hole or recess in the spur.

The second one has target grips, not Magna.

The OP's revolver, if .38 is surely a prewar Outdoorsman.

Hey JW,
Thank you for your reply
I hadn´t heard before the "pre-model 23" name.
So the correct grips are only the Magna ones.
Regards

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by RKmesa

For reference, here is a copy of the pre-war Outdoorsman brochure.









As noted by others above:

Outdoorsman = Adjustable Sights (almost always with 6.5" barrels, the few exceptions being some special order 5" barrels)

Heavy Duty = Fixed Sights

The pre-war Outdoorsman is one of the finest revolvers that S&W ever made and it was the test platform that rolled in the Magnum Era.

Hey RKmesa,
Very cool brochure, thank you for sharing it.
I agree with you, the Outdoorsman it´s a very fine revolver, the ones in your profile picture are yours?
Regards

[JP@AK]

Note the possessive in the actual factory name for this revolver. As the brochure shows, it was called the Outdoorsman's revolver. For some reason, we tend to truncate it to "Outdoorsman."

[DWalt]

.38-44 ammunition is simply a more heavily loaded version of the .38 Special, and was a predecessor of the .357 Magnum cartridge (except the .357 case is slightly longer). Both the Outdoorsman and the HD revolvers had their barrels stamped as .38 Special. In any event, any .38 special ammunition can be used in it. .38-44 ammunition is no longer loaded by the big companies, but is available from a couple of the boutique brands. Or you can easily handload it in .38 Special cases. It is obligatory to say that it is not unusual to find those revolvers may have later had their chambers lengthened by their owners to accept .357 Magnum cartridges, so you should check for that.

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by DWalt

.38-44 ammunition is simply a more heavily loaded version of the .38 Special, and was a predecessor of the .357 Magnum cartridge (except the .357 case is slightly longer). Both the Outdoorsman and the HD revolvers had their barrels stamped as .38 Special. In any event, any .38 special ammunition can be used in it. .38-44 ammunition is no longer loaded by the big companies, but is available from a couple of the boutique brands. Or you can easily handload it in .38 Special cases. It is obligatory to say that it is not unusual to find those revolvers may have later had their chambers lengthened by their owners to accept .357 Magnum cartridges, so you should check for that.

Hey Dwalt,
Thank you for your reply.
I will check the chambers
Regards

[EddieHD]

Hey gents.

The good news, I have this missing information:

- Bottom of the grip frame SN 543XX matches the ones in the barrel and cylinder.
- Right grip is marked and match the SN 543XX
- Medallions grips are marked inside SMITH & WESSON US PAT.2081438
- Trigger and hammer are marked REG. US PAT OFF
- Barrel is marked PATENTED FEB.6.00.SEPT.14.09.DEC.22.14

Tomorrow with daylight I will take pictures from both sides.

Regards

[JP@AK]

Originally Posted by EddieHD

- Bottom of the grip frame SN 543XX matches the ones in the barrel and cylinder.
- Right grip is marked and match the SN 543XX

The closest one I have is 43757. It shipped in July, 1934. We know yours is 1935 or later because of the Magna stocks. With the serial number, that is confirmed. Perhaps someone has one closer to your serial number, but 1936ish would be close, I'd think.

[Peak53]

Originally Posted by EddieHD

Hey gents.

The good news, I have this missing information:

- Bottom of the grip frame SN 543XX matches the ones in the barrel and cylinder.
- Right grip is marked and match the SN 543XX
- Medallions grips are marked inside SMITH & WESSON US PAT.2081438
- Trigger and hammer are marked REG. US PAT OFF
- Barrel is marked PATENTED FEB.6.00.SEPT.14.09.DEC.22.14

Tomorrow with daylight I will take pictures from both sides.

Regards

This is a vey nice looking Outdoorsman's Model or wherever the ' belongs. You will absolutely love shooting it.

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by JP@AK

The closest one I have is 43757. It shipped in July, 1934. We know yours is 1935 or later because of the Magna stocks. With the serial number, that is confirmed. Perhaps someone has one closer to your serial number, but 1936ish would be close, I'd think.

Thank you for your reply,
How many do you have? Would you mind posting some pictures of them, please?
Regards

[EddieHD]

Hello Gents,

There are only 2 ODs revolver variants the Pre and Postwar?

Regards

[RKmesa]

Originally Posted by EddieHD

Hey RKmesa,
I agree with you, the Outdoorsman it´s a very fine revolver, the ones in your profile picture are yours?

The revolvers in my profile are an engraved set of post war 357s with custom Keith Brown grips. Here is a photo of the set in a custom case…



You asked for some photos - here are a few photos of some pre-war Outdoorsman’s Revolvers:

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by EddieHD

I hadn´t heard before the "pre-model 23" name.

Originally Posted by EddieHD

There are only 2 ODs revolver variants the Pre and Postwar?

Actually three models: Pre war, Post war Transitional Model, and the Model of 1950 which is the only one that qualifies to be a pre Model 23 because engineering design is the same as the version that was actually designated the Model 23 in mid-1957.

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by RKmesa

The revolvers in my profile are an engraved set of post war 357s with custom Keith Brown grips. Here is a photo of the set in a custom case…



You asked for some photos - here are a few photos of some pre-war Outdoorsman’s Revolvers:

OMG RKmesa,
Tyvm I really appreciate it, what a nice S&Ws collection you have,
Regards

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Actually three models: Pre war, Post war Transitional Model, and the Model of 1950 which is the only one that qualifies to be a pre Model 23 because engineering design is the same as the version that was actually designated the Model 23 in mid-1957.

Hey Jim,
Thank you for your reply and full information, I really appreciate it.
Do you have ODs revolvers?
Regards

[EddieHD]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Actually three models: Pre war, Post war Transitional Model, and the Model of 1950 which is the only one that qualifies to be a pre Model 23 because engineering design is the same as the version that was actually designated the Model 23 in mid-1957.

Hey Hondo44,
Thank you again for your reply, I tried to google to find out more about the ODs differences without luck. Would you tell me which would be the main differences between them to tell which is each model, please? And if you don´t mind would you share a picture of them, please?
I would really appreciate your support, thank you in advance =)

[StrawHat]

The PreWar action is the long action characterized by the Model 1917. The spur on the hammer is close to the top of the hammer. On the side of the revolver with the cylinder release (left side), there is a large pin easily seen just under the release. This is the hammer stud and on factory finished revolvers it is slightly proud of the surface. Those are the two easily visual clues to a Pre War.

The Model 1950 is a short action revolver. The spur is at about 1/2 mast and the hammer stud is now polished even with the frame.

The Post War and Transitional models? Someone else can tackle those. They are as clear as mud to me.

The photographs are of a prewar and a Model 1950. (The Model 1950 has a user modified front sight.) The last photograph is a 1950 Target Model. None of these are chambered for the 38/44 but the changes were across the board for all the N frames.

Kevin

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by EddieHD

Hey Hondo44,
Thank you again for your reply, I tried to google to find out more about the ODs differences without luck. Would you tell me which would be the main differences between them to tell which is each model, please? And if you don´t mind would you share a picture of them, please?
I would really appreciate your support, thank you in advance =)

Well Kevin has done a great job above.

The Post War Transitional Model is basically a Pre War model with addition of the post war sliding bar hammer block safety. This is evident by seeing the bar in the hammer channel move up and down as the hammer is cocked and lowered. Also the hammer is notched below the firing pin for the sliding bar and very evident in a side view of the hammer when cocked.

They still have the long action, pre war style hammer spur, pre war sights, both front and adjustable rear target sight, and no barrel rib on target models. All of those features changed with the intro of the 1950 models.

[RKmesa]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

...They still have the long action, pre war style hammer spur, pre war sights, both front and adjustable rear target sight, and no barrel rib on target models. All of those features changed with the intro of the 1950 models.

A little clarification on the Transitional .357 Magnums and 38/44 Outdoorsmans Revolvers. The Transitional .357s and 38/44 O/Ds have post war micrometer rear sights and post war front sights. In addition both the Transitional 357 and 38/44 O/Ds had ribbed barrels, with some of the 38/44s sporting .357 Magnum barrels with the checkered rib. In addition to the above, the N-Frame Transitionals were built on a pre-war frame, which is slightly longer in the grip frame than the other post war N-Frames.

[lestert357]

Originally Posted by EddieHD

OMG RKmesa,
Tyvm I really appreciate it, what a nice S&Ws collection you have,
Regards

EddieHD, you haven’t seen anything yet. Wait until RKmesa shows pictures of his good stuff!

[RKmesa]

Originally Posted by lestert357

EddieHD, you haven’t seen anything yet. Wait until RKmesa shows pictures of his good stuff!

Hey Terry, thank you for the compliment, but to me the "good stuff" is anything that has an "S&W" on it. I love all of the S&W photos that anyone posts - from the well-worn M&P that has been holstered thousands of times, to the one-of-a-kind safe queen that has never had a round in the cylinder. Also, the diversity of interests here on the forum and the amazing depth of knowledge keeps me coming back every day (usually multiple times each day). This forum is a great place to unwind and detach from the stresses of life. Thanks to Lee and all of the rest of you that make this a great "place".