I recently acquired my first S&W revolver, a k22 masterpiece that was made around 1948 (verified by serial number by folks on here in an earlier thread). My question is what kind of target grips were available in that era, I would like to have a pair of diamond targets, but were they made in that era in the relieved or non-relieved style? Thanks for all of your help.

I don't post much, but I read a lot of threads. I especially enjoyed the one yesterday with photos of the target 45. WOW!

I recently acquired my first S&W revolver, a k22 masterpiece that was made around 1948 (verified by serial number by folks on here in an earlier thread). My question is what kind of target grips were available in that era, I would like to have a pair of diamond targets, but were they made in that era in the relieved or non-relieved style? Thanks for all of your help.

I don't post much, but I read a lot of threads. I especially enjoyed the one yesterday with photos of the target 45. WOW!

The diamond grips are correct for the era of your gun but I think the would have been diamond magnas. I bought a K22 and it was made about 1952 and it came with diamond targets that aren't correct for the gun.

Aftermarket. I believe N frame factory targets showed up around 1952-53 and K frame targets around 1955.

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Thanks guys. I am afraid I have gotten hooked. I am already looking for a Kit Gun and and/or a k38.

FISH ON!!!

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My 4-digit ser pre 17 has diamond targets on it. They look good but are not correct. It came with goodyears on it and I like the diamond targrts so a marriage was born. Larry

Here's some info I've picked-up here from other posts:

K Frame Diamond “Targets”, offered from 1946, were available in Non-Relief, Based upon research of origional S&W Sales Literature, K frame "Target" grips were listed in the 1950 "All Products Circular" and as late as the 1952 "Centennial Catalog". The grips illustrated are symetrical and do not have the Cartridge Relief. After about 1955, they were offered in “football” cartridge relief.

Diamond Targets ( and Diamond Magnas) were discontinued in 1968.

“Speed-Loader Cut Outs (sometimes called "scallops" as the cut out goes all the way down to the frame) came much later in the early 80's.

HTH.
Bob in Indy

Corrected the All Products Circular date. Thx M Priwer for the info.

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Bob in Indy

How about some pics.
DW

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I think this is wrong. The first listing in the Circular, post-WW2, is Jan 1950. Without a doubt, the
Oct 1946 Circular does not list , or show, target stocks. Neither do any of the others I have, between
1946 and 1949 .

Later, Mike Priwer

Great pics. You wouldn't be interested in parting with the ones on the top left would you?

So, is it plausible for a 1955 K-22 to have come from the factory with non-relieved diamond targets? I ask because my '55 K-22 is so equipped; it also has a target hammer and high-polish blue.

I realize a factory letter is the only way to know for sure, but I hesitate to letter this gun since I don't have the box, dox or tools with it.

Here's a pic.


Thanks, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

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Mike Priwer is correct on his dates.
Don

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I don't know if this will help, but here is a pic of a pistol my Dad bought in 1960(k316,3xx) with factory targets.

According to "THE Book" it's a '57 gun which would explain the non-relieved left stock.

I'm assuming it's not model numbered.

Very nice!

Good shooting.

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Good shooting.

A follow up question. Do you think I would be wasting my money to try and find a pair of non-relievd target stocks for my K22? The diamond magnas on it are numbered to the gun and in excellent condition. I want a pair of target stocks for comfort in shooting, but I like the idea of them being original if that makes sense. Thanks.

Jim

For shooting purposes, there are LOTS of target stocks available, and they fit different
hands differently. Since these are not going to be original anyway, I'd try to find something
that fits you hand, and gives you the control that you want. S&W factory stocks are a one-size
fits all, and may not be the best fit for you.

I'll tell you an interesting story. Several years ago, I bought two K-38's, at an auction , that
belonged to LAPD Chief Ed Davis. They both had non-factory target stocks - very nice, but not
factory. In the process of cleaning them, I discovered that the earlier gun, about serial
K90xxx, had the front corner of the frame cut off, to accomodate these particular grips.

I noticed that, with these grips, the feel of the gun was totally different, but that, for my
lousy shooting abilities, it was wonderful. On the other hand, from a collector perspective, I
was disappointed with the frame being cut, and sought out an original factory pair of target stocks.

I wrote Chief Davis, asking about the guns, and particularly about the stocks. He graciously
wrote back, and although I had trouble reading his handwriting, he noted that someone at the
LAPD armory made those stocks for him.

Fast forward to last year, and there was a thread here about LAPD guns. One of the pictures
posted was, I realized, that of the fellow at the armory who made the grips ! He was part of their
shooting team.

So now - I feel very differently about the cut-frame gun. Indeed, I kept the custom grips that
came with the gun, and on the very few occasions that I shoot it, I use those custom grips.
I'm thinking that I just ought to leave those on the gun - even though it does letter with
target stocks !

Regards, Mike Priwer

We've had several posts about that gentleman. Fuzzy Farrant is the name and custom grips are the game. I have a couple sets laying around as do others here. Only trouble is if you don't have the gun they were on most of them couldn't be used on a stock frame.
Paul

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Thanks for all the information. I may very well buy a set of diamond targets just because I like the way they look, but I definitely am going to search for some aftermarket grips which fit my hand.

Paul

No - its Walter Stark. Here is a picture of him , shooting with other members
of that team, including Farrant. You may need to magnify to read the names on
the bottom of the picture.



Here is a piece of a story I came across, by Clint Smith, about Walter :

"Selected as the full-time department firearms instructor, I got to go to Camp Perry for the NRA Firearm Instructor's School in July 1974. I was fortunate to meet and talk to Bill Jordon and Francis McKee, both legends then and now. I oversaw and--in many cases built--two new department firearms ranges, one indoor and one outdoors. We completely overhauled the department armory from six different kinds of shotguns to one--the Remington 870. A newly adopted handgun program allowed any revolver to be carried including .44s, albeit sans the full-blown magnums. I carried (and shot with effectiveness) a Smith & Wesson 4" Model 29 with the Remington 240-grain mid-range loadings, which I liked a lot--and still do. The S&W 29 sported retired LAPD officer Walter Stark's custom grips. The new Sheriff allowed me to break away from the PPC courses of fire and apply some of the stuff I was reading about taught and promoted by an outspoken retired Marine named John D. Cooper."

The link to the story is http://findarticles.com/p/arti...s_10_51/ai_n14936912


Regards, Mike Priwer

I'm talking about who made the stocks Mike not who owned them.
Paul

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One of the most overlooked commercial stocks were Siles. Take off the terrible goop they put on them and not only did they look nice they were very well proportioned.
DW

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Paul

Walter Stark made the stocks for Chief Ed Davis, not Fuzzy Farrant. Apparently both
of them were stock makers. I wrote Chief Davis, asking who made the stocks. He
replied back, saying it was Walter (Shark or something like that ), who was one of
the LAPD armorers. Subsequently, in the thread of last year, I saw the picture, and
realized his last name was Stark.

Then yesterday, I came across the story by Clint Smith, who also has the Model 29
with Walter Stark stocks.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Mike,

I don't know if I stand corrected or not. I do realise that Walter also made grips But Fuzzys usually had the frame cut on the toe of the butt. To my limited knowledge Walter didn't do that.

Paul

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Paul; Fuzzy grips usually had the toe cut on most of his "N" Frames that I have seen and used. I have seen a number of his "K" Frame grips without the toe cut but the material is very thin in this area.

In the '70s-'80s I was selling Pachmayr Grips and removed a number of "K" Frame Fuzzy grips that had become cracked in the toe area. I think this was being caused by the use of Magnums in the lighter weight "K" Frames. This was before the "Gripper" Model Pachmayrs had come out. I believe Fuzzy also made his stocks using a tracking of the Officers' hand so they were Custom to that Officer.

Also, a number of Departments in the WA State area had begun "issuing" sidearms and it would have been "frowned upon" if you were to get caught with a Department owned gun that had been modified by having the toe ground off, in this manner.

Paul

All that I can say is that Chief Davis said that Walter Stark made the grips for him.
One of the pairs has the frame corner cut - the other does not. Farrants name was never
mentioned by Chief Davis.

I don't know who was copying who, or , whether the two may have collaborated with each
other. Or,maybe there was no collaboration. What I can say, with certainty, is that
Walter Stark mades these two pairs, and whatever the pair is that Clint Smith has.

Mike - I do have an advertsing flyer from Farrant, dated May , 1982 . It shows grips
with the frame corner cut, and not being cut. He describes the frame-cut as a way to
make the grip smaller.

Interestingly, this pair I have, from Walter Stark, has a very different profile than
those of Farrant. From the flyer, Farrants have very little wood up high on the backstrap.
This pair, from Stark, has a lot of wood up there. It forces your hand into a very different
position.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Less wood would pull the muzzle up, more would push it down. I do appreciate the up grade to my education. I am now more confused than ever. What do they say about too much knowledge?
Paul

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Paul

I just received this note from Craig Smith, who was/is with LAPD:

Here’s another reference I just found yesterday – Guns Magazine from January, 1986, with Walter Rickell writing about a Colt Officers Model Special with a single action conversion by Chow, rig and sights by Mathews [another grail for Joe and me] with Farrant stocks.



“What really makes this a piece of history is that everyone in the match that day [3-21-54] signed it [the target]—notable shooters like John Hurst and Fuzzy Farrant, from LAPD and premier handgun grip makers; George Rock of the Spike Jones Band; and Walter Stark and Joe Blackford, who both taught Hurst and Farrant the art of custom handgun stocks and started the whole business of finger grooves. There are 21 signatures on the target, all signed with varying instruments from fading pencil to bold green ink with great sounding names like Buck Weaver and Marvin L. Iwine, U.S. Border Patrol. Finally, Mills Paugh, the referee, put the final touch to record a piece of handgun competition history.” [50 yrd bullseye target with score 99-100]

Does this change your thinking about Farrant vs Stark ? !!


Enjoy, Mike Priwer

The only set of 'Fuzzy' grips I have left is a set for a RB "K" Frame. I'll try to get a couple of pictures posted before too long.

To be truthful I didn't know I was doing a vs thing. I had an opinion that was incorrect and I appreciate your input. Lets leave it at that.

Regards, Paul

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Paul,

If you get the uncontrollabe urge to sell those smooth targets in the third from top picture on the first page, I would be interested.

Paul

One other statement I found, that could be collaborated:

"The 1961 Cooper book lists Farrant, Hurst and a Stark as grip makers,
with Stark predating Farrant's style. "

Later, Mike Priwer