Help Identify Marking on Front Target Sight

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StrawHat said:
Until 1950, a gunsmith was practically the only way to get an adjustable sighted Model 1917.

Kevin
Click to expand...

Thanks Kevin.
I value any knowledge you (& others) share, here.
I may have jumped too soon for this one… it was one of those situations where I couldn't find information fast enough on this configuration. I was afraid to let it slip away so I "bit."
Now, I'm hoping I didn't overpay, but I'm not in too deep! Lol
(Fingers crossed that Dr. Jinks will have something good to say.)

On a good note, the finish appears original and to be pretty nice, aesthetically. I think the service grips are in good shape and righteous.

I just received an email that it'll be ready for pickup at my LGS on Friday.

Regards,
-Bill



 
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bill-in-texas said:
Thanks Kevin.
I value any knowledge you (& others) share, here.
I may have jumped too soon for this one… it was one of those situations where I couldn't find information fast enough on this configuration. I was afraid to let it slip away so I "bit."
Now, I'm hoping I didn't overpay, but I'm not in too deep! Lol
(Fingers crossed that Dr. Jinks will have something good to say.)

On a good note, the finish appears original and to be pretty nice, aesthetically. I think the service grips are in good shape and righteous.

I just received an email that it'll be ready for pickup at my LGS on Friday.

Regards,
-Bill
Click to expand...

It is in good shape. I believe it shipped in 1918. I doubt the good Doctor will be able to provide much more, perhaps which Armory received it. But, it was cared for by someone who wanted an ACP shooter so it went off to a gunsmith for some additions.

I like it, wish I would have seen it first!

Kevin
 
StrawHat said:
It is in good shape. I believe it shipped in 1918. I doubt the good Doctor will be able to provide much more, perhaps which Armory received it.
Click to expand...

I bet you're right about that! 'Probably won't be told I've got a real "find," but a man can dream!!! Ha ha :D

StrawHat said:
I like it, wish I would have seen it first!

Kevin
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. A little validation never hurt anybody.
:)
I'm excited to get it!

-Bill
 
bill-in-texas said:
I may have jumped too soon for this one… it was one of those situations where I couldn't find information fast enough on this configuration. I was afraid to let it slip away so I "bit."
Now, I'm hoping I didn't overpay, but I'm not in too deep!
Click to expand...
Don't know what you paid, but probably NOT too much. The only thing that keeps an old 1917 from being a first-rate up-to-date ****-hot combat handgun is the narrow front sight. Yours doesn't have that issue, but it still fits a classic period. Good catch!
 
That appears to be a 6-1/2" barrel. 1917s had 5-1/2" barrels, but that barrel has the typical marking for a 1917 barrel- "S. & W. D.A. 45"
That leads me to believe the barrel may have been made in the Factory, probably from a 455-2nd barrel, but the sights were definitely not installed in the Factory.
VERY strange.
 
handejector said:
That appears to be a 6-1/2" barrel. 1917s had 5-1/2" barrels, but that barrel has the typical markings…
VERY strange.
Click to expand...

Yes, Lee. I too, believe it has a 6.5" bbl. despite it being listed as 6".
I've been wondering about that -& whether or not it will say "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" on the underside. The ampersand aligns differently than on a 5.5" bbl., yet the font and spacing appear to match. Hmm. 🧐

-Bill
 
That's a very interesting 1917. Well you'll have it in your hands soon and you can confirm a few things, especially how well it shoots.

Hand ejector is on to something about that 6 1/2" barrel possibly starting life as a .455 barrel. And clearly factory marked .45 CAL. for the ACP. The first thing I would do is slug the barrel. Albeit, if a S&W used a .455 barrel, it's more likely S&W built it from a .455 forging before it was rifled for the .455., and rifled it with .45 ACP dimensions.


Pre war Smiths of .45 cal other than the 45 ACP used a:

bore (land) diameter - .447" to .448"; groove diameter - .457" to .458".

(Including the 45 Colt chamberings since they were so few, same groove and bore sizes as their .455.)


Their 1917 45 ACP barrels are:

bore (land) - .445"; groove - .451".

(including post war to current Smith .45 Colt barrels.)
 
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Hondo44 said:
That's a very interesting 1917. Well you'll have it in your hands soon and you can confirm a few things, especially how well it shoots.

Hand ejector is on to something about that 6 1/2" barrel possibly starting life as a .455 barrel. And clearly factory marked .45 CAL. for the ACP. The first thing I would do is slug the barrel. Albeit, if a S&W used a .455 barrel, it's more likely S&W built it from a .455 forging before it was rifled for the .455., and rifled it with .45 ACP dimensions.


Pre war Smiths of .45 cal other than the 45 ACP used a:

bore (land) diameter - .447" to .448"; groove diameter - .457" to .458".

(Including the 45 Colt chamberings since they were so few, same groove and bore sizes as their .455.)


Their 1917 45 ACP barrels are:

bore (land) - .445"; groove - .451".

(including post war to current Smith .45 Colt barrels.)
Click to expand...

Jim,

Isn't the biggest difference between ACP rifling and the rifling for the 455 et al, the number of grooves? S&W rifling is 5 grooves, ACP rifling is 6.

Kevin
 
StrawHat said:
Jim,

Isn't the biggest difference between ACP rifling and the rifling for the 455 et al, the number of grooves? S&W rifling is 5 grooves, ACP rifling is 6.

Kevin
Click to expand...

Good point. Yes just counting the rifling grooves would be an easy way to tell which .45 the barrel is bored for.

FYI: David Chicoine in his book on Gunsmithing the Guns of the Old West states that S&W top breaks initially had 5 lands but later, with the .45 Schofield, went to 6 lands.
 
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Hondo44 said:
…FYI: David Chicoine in his book on Gunsmithing the Guns of the Old West states that S&W top breaks initially had 5 lands but later, with the .45 Schofield, went to 6 lands...
Click to expand...

Do we know if they were the same direction and style as the 5 type? With the ACP, the lands were narrower if I recall correctly.

Kevin
 
I Picked Up the M1917 Target Conversion, Today!

You all were spot on... King sites. (Interesting to me that the just-mailed SWCA Journal features this very topic!)

Here's a view of the rear sight:


All numbers match, with the exception of the 6-groove, 6.5" bbl. (Barrel SN: 0294.)
-Bill
 
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