I Just purchased this 1905 from a local pawn shop. I fell in love with the old grips, which are a bit worn, but the bluing is still in decent condition and mechanically it is perfect. I think from reading posts here that it may be a late 1930s manufacture. I have requested a letter from S&W. Serial number is 817XXX. Any thoughts? Thanks, Brian

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If the serial number is correct as found on the butt, the stocks are not. Those stocks came from a 1920s gun. 1930s have a silver medallion in the top round. The trigger is normally found on a target model, but I am sure it could be ordered on a standard M&P. That serial number would have shipped in 1941. Check closely to see if the first number might not be a "3" stamped deeply.

The reason why I am asking about the serial number, is that that serial number range shows up in the database as military ordered revolvers shipped to US Lend Lease, Canada, Australia, or England. ALso, the stocks fit well and you should find a serial number inside the right stock. Check that and let us know what the stamping is?

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Gary
SWCA 2515

First, S&W would not have called it a Model of 1905. At that time it would have been cataloged as a .38 Military and Police Model. The serial number you provided would date it as likely shipping in the August-September 1941 time period. The grips on it are not original as they are from the 1920s period. A letter may or may not provide additional information. As it is chambered in .38 Special, it is not likely to have been one made for the British Commonwealth. The S on the sideplate could indicate that at least the sideplate could have been modified for the 1945 improved hammer drop safety, or, it is possible that it is a replacement sideplate. An inspection of the internal components would be in order to answer that question. The trigger could well be a later replacement.

One other item regarding the serial number. Check to see if a matching serial number is stamped on a flat on the bottom of the barrel and also on the rear face of the cylinder and the back (hidden) side of the ejector star.

what is the deal of the "S" on the right side?

Wengayoo:

Getting a letter from the S&WHF is a smart move. Please post back here with the details once it comes in.

A couple of questions so I can help diagnose what you have. First, can you post here or PM me with the complete serial number? Next, was there provision for a lanyard ring on the butt? If so, is it missing now with the resulting hole filled in? Is there an "S" marked on the butt?

Let me know the answers to those questions and I will try to get you some better info on your revolver.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

It seems strange that the grips would be replaced with much older version, and surprised because they fit so incredibly well.

Also, I don'r see any serial number on the inside of the stocks...

I'd bet money the serial number S817xxx. The S prefix will be on the butt, the barrel flat, the rear face of the cylinder and two other locations. It fits with everything we see, except the stocks. As noted by others, those stocks are from the 1920s.

S817xxx would, of course, indicate that likely it shipped in the spring of 1946, hence, a postwar .38 M&P.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Beginning in December, 1944, S&W incorporated the new sliding hammer block safety in the M&P design. The sideplate required extra machining to accommodate the new design. To indicate that the sideplate had the extra machining on the inside, a small s was stamped on the outside of the sideplate in the location shown on this revolver. At the same time, an S was added to the V prefix in the serial number. After the war, the V was dropped, but the S prefix remained until numbers reached S999999.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated.

It is possible the OP failed to include an S as part of the SN he provided. If so, that would make it one incorporating the improved drop safety which would have shipped in 1946, not 1941. And it would not have been military.

I would like to put the correct stocks on the gun in case anyone knows where I might find them....

That looks like it's in pretty nice condition. It ought to be fun at the range or in the field.

As far as the stocks go: You might check on Ebay or post a Want to Buy (WTB) thread here on the forum.

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Keep your powder dry.

Hello Wengayoo:

Thanks for your PM providing me with the complete serial number and other details. As indicated elsewhere here your revolver is one that was shipped from the factory just after WW2, most likely in March, 1946. The plugged lanyard ring hole is characteristic of that group of guns as is the small s on the upper side plate indicating that the improved hammer safety block has been installed. The stocks that would be correct for your revolver would be early post-war Magnas.

I hope that information is helpful to you .

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

That is just a regular grooved trigger, standard from the late 20s-early 30s onward.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Charlie, our highly esteemed President, is correct. That revolver would have shipped with Magna stocks, having the sharp shoulder.

At S817xxx, it is possible that it left Springfield wearing the prewar style Magna stocks (larger area of checking), but most likely they were the early postwar style. In the S817000 to S818000 range, the prewar style disappeared (that is, they were used up), and were thenceforth replaced with the style having a smaller checkered area.

Here is a picture that illustrates the two styles. These two revolvers are wearing original numbered stocks. The 5" unit has the prewar style and the 4" unit wears the postwar Magna stocks. They shipped in March and April, 1946, respectively.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Thanks, was wondering.

Great info, thanks, gives me a good starting point for finding the period correct stocks. Maybe someone would want trade for the existing 1920s 2nd-change stocks?

I think this set might have been on a 1946 MP at one time.

I will let the guys that study MPs decide








The checking on one side is actually a bit finer than you see on post war magnas.

Yes. Those are very early postwar M&P stocks with the blued machined washer. You don't find those above about S820000. After that, the washer is made of pressed steel.

The highest recorded serial number with that washer in my database is S820038. Revolvers in that serial range were shipping in April, 1946.

Too bad someone ground out the serial number on the right panel.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

An original period-correct pair of Magnas like that shown with the machined washer in higher condition will be very difficult to find and will command a substantial, if not shocking, price. A slightly later but much more common pair with the pressed steel washer in average condition as used into the early 1950s, will look very similar at around a third or less of the price, maybe in the $120-150 range.

You probably won’t find anyone willing to make much of a trade for the heavily worn 1920s grips that are currently on it. They are not worth the cost of a professional restoration.

I wonder why they did that to the serial number. I saw these on ebay a long time ago and was hoping they had potential to be from a Mexican model. Reading your serial range and looking at a numbered set on a Mexican model on the forum I guess they just missed the time frame. I am surprised they still had left over prewar discs in 1946.

For a data point, let me say I have M&P S/N S813907, which I bought from a member on this forum.

It shipped in March 1946 and has its original "Pre-War" style Magna grips, properly numbered to the revolver.

Finding a proper pair of these grips would be like finding the Holy Grail.

These are poor photos, for which I apologize.





Notice the former lanyard hole, carefully plugged at the factory.





Curly

That is a nice 5" Curly. I have it in my database. If you have it lettered, I'd be curious where it shipped. Some in that range have an interesting history.

There is one thing I didn't mention regarding the stocks in Post #19 and is true of yours also. Notice it has the dimple in the upper corner of the right panel. That is to accommodate the round head of the sideplate screw. Later, that screw was changed to a flat head and the dimple was no longer necessary.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Jack,

I don't have it lettered. Just a "ship date request" response from Roy. Can you give me a clue about the interesting history of some in this s/n range?

Thanks,
Curly

Yes. A bunch of them shipped to Mexico.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Including the so-called “Mexican Model” which was a K-frame .38 with a micro-adjustable rear sight and an un-ribbed barrel. I wouldn’t be surprised that many stock M&Ps were also shipped south of the border at around the same time.

Yes, DWalt. That is the case. The actual "Mexican Model" was a unique run of target M&Ps. However, as you suggest, there were standard, fixed sight M&Ps that were purchased south of the border in the same period. Many of them fall into the serial range being discussed here.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Just curious why some have serials and some not.

It is a complicated story, but here's part of it:

From early times, the stocks were hand fitted to the frame. The fitter would mark the right panel with the gun's serial number. In the early days of Hand Ejectors, the number was written with a pencil on walnut stocks. On rubber stocks, sometimes it was written with pencil, but sometimes it was stamped (impressed) on the stock (I have a .32 HE from March, 1916, with the number stamped, not penciled).

Beginning in the 1930s, the practice changed to impressing the numbers on the right panel. This lasted until the 1980s, when stocks were no longer hand fitted.

When it comes to postwar target stocks, they were not, in the main, serialized. The reason is that they did not require hand fitting. There were exceptions, mostly on the N frames, but also on some early Combat Magnum revolvers.

Moreover, even on Magna stocks during the period of numbering, if they were sold as aftermarket items, they would not be serialized, for obvious reasons.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Some S&W target stocks will have an inked date stamp but not a serial number.

I certainly don't think mine went to Mexico. It looks like "sock drawer" duty was as hard as it got for mine.

Curly

FYI, bought period correct Magna Grips on Ebay recently. I will return with photos once I get the letter form Colt.
Thanks All

The folks at Colt will be scratching their head when they get the request. Sorry, I could not resist.

Okay, got me! Got the letter from S&W yesterday. I put the period-correct stocks on (I think) and cleaned it up a bit. It looks pretty nice and I'm gonna hang on to it. Gonna go shoot it. No big surprises with the letter, mostly what you told me already, but kinda nice to have the history. Thanks for the input!

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Well, on second thought, maybe not the right grips? They were supposed to be....

Well they are close,

They do not have the sharp shoulder at the top above the medallion and it seems the top edge of the horns are missing. Horns get chipped off mostly from improper removal from the gun.

Oops, wrong string!

Wengayoo,

Finding stocks numbered to a gun after they were separated in the first place is always near impossible. I believe finding a period correct set, where the condition of the wood matches the condition of the metal is important. Those post war guns typically saw a lot of use. I think the set you found for your revolver looks pretty darned good.

Great find, wish I saw it first. 😁 looks to be in great shape for its age.
I was “shipped” the same year and it’s in better shaped than me.

Old guy!