Factory shortened barrels

PeteC · Jul 30, 2023

When an older gun was sent in to S&W to have a barrel shortened, for example from 6" to 4" or 5", what would have been done, and how can one tell?

What I mean is, was the barrel actually cut and the gun refinished? Was the barrel replaced with a 5" and stamped with the same s/n and a star? Grip frame stamped with a date? See example in copy of an order letter to S&W attached below.

I ask because I have recently seen guns with finishes that seem too-good-to-be-true, but - without the signs of a refinish that are usually mentioned in this forum. Guns made in the 30's~50's that I am not used to seeing often seem to be coming up both online and locally, and it would be nice to know what to look for.

red9 · Jul 30, 2023

No answer, but a related question. I have seen shortened ribbed barrels both with and without milling away the serrations under the relocated front sight. Did the factory have a consistent practice?

Bob

PeteC · Jul 30, 2023

red9 said:
No answer, but a related question. I have seen shortened ribbed barrels both with and without milling away the serrations under the relocated front sight. Did the factory have a consistent practice?

Bob

Also a good question. Here is a pic to help with that one:
(not that example of one barrel proves anything, lol)

Alk8944 · Jul 30, 2023

That is a good example of standard factory practice. The sight/ramp was mounted on top of the serrations like this photo shows. I have owned numerous S&W revolvers and every one that had a serrated rib, or serrations on the barrel, was like this.

Generally if the customer wanted a shorter barrel and it was a standard length the barrel would have been replaced. It would be cheaper to do this than all the work necessary to shorten an existing barrel.

It has been a long time since S&W would do custom work like shortening the existing barrel on a customers gun. I believe the practice ended after WW II If it was done refinishing was required. I believe it was usual to refinish the entire gun since that is the only way all components would be a consistent color and polish level.

austintexas · Jul 30, 2023

Registered Magnum

I had a Registered Magnum lettered that had gone back to the factory in 1972 and refinished, new diamond Magnas, and barrel shortened to 3 1/2" by removing the 6" barrel and a M-27, 3 1/2" barrel installed. I kept it until I found an unmolested 3 1/2" barreled Registered Magnum. I wish I had not sold the first one.
SWCA 892

mikepriwer · Jul 30, 2023

The issue about barrel shortening is a somewhat complicated situation, because the evolution of the barrel design has an impact on what can, and can not, be done. Let me explain.

The model of 1899 has a straight taper barrel, with a forged front sight base. There is also a shallow recess in the frame nose, so that when the barrel is fully tight, the bottom edge of the barrel is not visible. When a forcing cone became cracked, the barrel could be shortened by cutting off a short length on the breech-face end, and then turning down a short-length section to 0.500 and extending the threads. This, of course, shortens the flat under the barrel. It appears to be how 6" barrels were made up from 6.5" barrels. There is a limit to this technique, because much more than 1/2" causes the barrel edge to be visible in that recess.

The models of 1902 and 1905 have a forged extractor lug under the barrel, to capture the end of the extractor rod. Cutting off the breech-face end brings rearward the extractor lug, which then requires shortening the extractor rod. Cutting off the muzzle end necessitates brazing or welding a replacement front sight base. Also, because of the taper of the barrel, cutting off the muzzle always changes the appearance of the crown, because the muzzle becomes thicker. In other words, this is not a good idea.

The big break-through came with the advent of a straight barrel with a rib, on the registered magnums. With these features, the front sight base is pinned into the rib. Shortening means only milling a new slot for the front sight base, and re-pinning it to the rib. The registered magnums appear to have the fine checkering on the top of the barrel milled off, to provide a flat area for the front sight base. The post-WW2 target revolvers appear to have the front sight base mounted directly on top of the grooved top of the barrel.

Mike Priwer

Hondo44 · Jul 30, 2023

When a barrel is modified/changed at the factory, how it’s done will depend on parts in inventory and vintage of the gun. And how it and/or the frame are marked depends on the time period the work is done. Between roughly 1920 to 1970, the trends were as follows.

Generally if a standard shorter barrel is requested and one is available in inventory, it will be stamped with the gun’s serial number and an S and/or diamond to indicate it was done in the Service department. How the sight was installed on a cut barrel would look factory for the period the work was done. The number, location, size of retaining pins, left domed or polished flush, etc. All parts would be reblued to match and the S will get it back to the service department instead of the new gun department.

The left side grip frame on the toe would be stamped with a rework date, months and year, later years, month, day and year sometimes. The heel was stamped with variations of a diamond or S or both.

Following the butt serial a star was stamped usually but with exceptions; occasionally on left side of grip frame or no star at customer request, etc., etc.

Modified · Jul 30, 2023

Lots of good information above, but I can add one data point.

I've been after factory modified guns for some years now, and I've still only run across one that the factory actually cut:

Updated: Model 3 DA, Factory Modified in '49, The SWHF is awesome!

Ever other instance I have seen of a shortened barrel done by the service department was a replaced barrel.

Other shortened barrels I have come across have all been either non-factory (King would happily do it for example), or if the service department did it I have seen no documentation or proof.

Of course, as my Model 3 DA above illustrates; they did do it at least once. I personally suspect the service department as the culprit behind any top notch modification to a S&W with a factory quality finish on it that has no obvious signs of having been done by another shop.

But.

Without documentation all you can do is suspect.

That is why I love the old finely modified guns however. Who did it is fun to know, and interesting, and well well worth trying to find out. But in the end? You still have to take the gun for what it is, love it for what it is, and not how it became what it is. I never buy a gun with expectations about learning it's history.

I do buy guns with the knowledge that because of what has been done to them they *have* interesting history, and a hope of being able to uncover it.

Hondo44 · Jul 30, 2023

Within the last few months we saw an S&W factory work order for cutting a barrel to a standard length. But all evidence observed on the barrel and gun indicated the barrel was just replaced.

Bottom line; it’s always easier to replace a barrel if what’s needed is available.

PeteC · Jul 31, 2023

Thanks, everyone, for taking the time to post. Lots of good information here, and that factory modified Model 3 is super cool!

The summary is seems to be that factory barrel replacements happened much more often than shortened barrels. The stamps are most likely for a combination of factory repair/refinish, and the records of that seem not to be indexed by s/n... oh well...

Walter Rego · Jul 31, 2023

I once owned a Model 14-2 that was part of a 24 gun order of identical guns with five inch barrels. The factory letter referred to them as "Special Production Barrel Length" guns.
As S&W didn't make five inch K-38's as standard catalog items at that time like they did with the Model 10's or earlier M&P's, they must have taken regular 6" barrels and cut them down. Here is a photo of the muzzle. It's anyone's guess if they shortened the barrels from barrels that were in parts bins on the assembly line, or pulled them from completed guns in inventory and then did the mill work and reassembled them. Probably less expensive to cut down barrels from the parts bins.

CH4 · Jul 31, 2023

PeteC said:
Also a good question. Here is a pic to help with that one:
(not that example of one barrel proves anything, lol)

I think that looks tacky - half done. Seems they'd mill off the serrations. I'd expect better from the factory.

PeteC · Jul 31, 2023

Walter Rego said:
I once owned a Model 14-2 that was part of a 24 gun order of identical guns with five inch barrels. The factory letter referred to them as "Special Production Barrel Length" guns.
As S&W didn't make five inch K-38's as standard catalog items at that time like they did with the Model 10's or earlier M&P's, they must have taken regular 6" barrels and cut them down. Here is a photo of the muzzle. It's anyone's guess if they shortened the barrels from barrels that were in parts bins on the assembly line, or pulled them from completed guns in inventory and then did the mill work and reassembled them. Probably less expensive to cut down barrels from the parts bins.

The regular 6" Model 14-2 had a sight and crown that was very similar to the barrels that were cut. The grooves on the top strap continue to the very edge of the barrel. The pic below is a standard length 6" Model 14-2.

Hondo44 · Jul 31, 2023

They could have shortened finished 6" barrels or more likely fabricated 5" barrels by shortening the raw 6" barrel forgings then finished machining them according to normal protocol for standard barrel length completion. Probably depended on whether or not there were unfinished forgings on hand or not.

PeteC · Jul 31, 2023

CH4 said:
I think that looks tacky - half done. Seems they'd mill off the serrations. I'd expect better from the factory.

<Sigh> .38's get no respect. That's probably why they gave Clint Eastwood a .44 for that movie. Nobody ever says things like that when you are pointing a .44 at their head. If the prop man had given him a 6" Model 14, they would have probably had to change the whole script!

Factory shortened barrels

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