Hey everyone,


To be honest, I know next to nothing about this revolver and was told to reach out to the forums to see history, worth, etc.


I’m wanting to see what it’s worth, given it was owned and modified by R.W. Loveless as well as any way there is to track down history of it.


Any help is greatly appreciated!


Thank you!

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Attached Images

	IMG_4657.jpg (35.5 KB, 561 views)
	FullSizeRender.jpg (30.8 KB, 478 views)
	IMG_4658.jpg (51.4 KB, 443 views)
	IMG_4661.jpg (53.9 KB, 392 views)
	IMG_4659.jpg (31.2 KB, 357 views)

Welcome aboard!

Do you any proof it was owned by Bob Loveless, other than this note?

__________________
"I also cook."

Thank you!

I don't other than I know the person who gave me the firearm personally and know that he was friends with Bob when they lived in California. I know that doesn't matter here though so, officially, that paper is all I have.

Well, knee jerk reaction is the finish is WAY too good for a 100++ year old revolver---and WAY too good for almost anybody besides the factory. So---have a look at the left side of the grip frame, and tell us what you see there---in the way of weird symbols, numbers, and what not.

Next, to tell you something you almost certainly already know, the grips haven't been around as near as long as the gun----which isn't a big deal to anybody besides us of the lunatic fringe---and the front sight came along looooooong after the gun did. Same goes for the hammer.

Bottom Line: It's a neat gun---no longer a collectible by any stretch of the imagination, but a neat gun nonetheless.

The weird symbols on the left grip frame (if any) will be factory service/refinish marks---and a date code----IF the refinish was done by the factory. The refinish most certainly could have been done by someone else----a damn good someone else.

So much for openers!

Ralph Tremaine

And a pox on all those who type faster than I do!

The modifications were done by Bob Loveless. Take a look at the note in the last photo and it explains a lot of them - almost exactly what you've said as well. That said, I've included another pic of the frame and have been told that it means it was never sent back to the factory. I don't really know otherwise.

Attached Images

	FullSizeRender 3.jpg (56.3 KB, 273 views)
	FullSizeRender 2.jpg (38.9 KB, 291 views)
	IMG_4661.jpg (53.9 KB, 240 views)
	IMG_4662.jpg (24.8 KB, 233 views)

Its no longer a collectible Triple Lock , sure. But, I think you need to research Mr. Loveless. If it is for certain done by him, it is quite a bit more collectible than you know. ***Search for Loveless custom S&W Model 41....

Bob Loveless Custom Smith & Wesson Model 41 Semi-Auto Pistol | Rock Island Auction

Further more, he made GORGEOUS custom knives working with steel and many different handle materials. I bet he was competent enough to sand, file, and blue a revolver.

__________________
Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

Yeah, that knowledge would certainly be helpful! As it is, I don't know Bob Loveless from a bale of hay.

"Ignorance is bliss."

Ralph Tremaine

Nice 44 HE 1st model. To your question about “Worth” and I assume by that you are wondering how much this firearm would be valued by the collecting community. Without documented provenance I’m not sure it would command more than a nicely refinished First Model. It’s apples and oranges to your gun but I have a N frame 629 PC comp that was previously owned by Bob Lum. A well known knife maker in his time and area. I’ve got a letter from his widow stating this. It’s a neat fact but probably negligible to any resale value. I think the real value is you now own a classic Triple Lock.

My first advice is to not listen to every comment you will get here.

This is the best forum but many offer expert opinions when they shouldn’t. I need to explain/clarify this and I’ll try to be quick.

Seven years ago someone asked here if he actually had a Loveless Field Gun. He had attached excellent pictures. The replies were almost unanimously no. The pistol showed up on Gunauction and since there was no provenance there wasn’t much interest. I had a hunch so I bid and started quietly researching. I was high winning bid at $816.00. By the time I received it I had directly contacted many of the people that worked and associated with Bob. Steve Johnson got me in touch with Marcus Linn who got me in touch with Jim Merritt.

Jim would have been the best source but he has passed. I would suggest contacting John Denton, (Jr,) because he and his dad were heavily involved. Another potential source might be Jim Brewster = Sara15 = jjbrewst1 here on the Forum.

Good luck

Jim

Attached Images

IMG_0089.jpg (55.9 KB, 246 views)

4T5guy is spot on. If the gent who gifted you this gun is still with us a more detailed letter along with a signature and possibly even a notary stamp would be a great start. An investment in putting together some provenance on this gun would be amply rewarded. I know that gun would surely be my most prized possession.

410Bore - This is awesome. Thanks for your reply and for the additional information. When the man you gave me the revolver was at my house, he had me pull up some of Mr. Loveless' knives and told me quite a bit about them. IIRC, he said he has a couple. They really are amazing. I wonder if Rock Island would be willing to give me a quote on this revolver as well.

4T5GUY - Thank you for the info and guidance! I will reach out to them and start there. My buddy told me to submit a request to the S&W Records as well to see what could be tracked that way. Obviously, it wouldn't show Loveless as the owner, but I'm still interested in the history of it all.

Series_Guy - the person who gifted this is still around. He said he was gifting it because he's getting "older" and doesn't want his Wife to have to deal with his collection. (80's) He's a super nice guy though. Kinda blew my mind that he gifted it to me. I offered to pay him and he refused. He was friends with Bob though so that's a great idea. I think I'm going to reach out to him. Thank you for the guidance.

Neat gun.
The pics show it to be hand polished very skillfully. All the work- the blue job, the cut barrel, widened hammer spur, and front sight appear to be 1st Class work. I can believe the Loveless connection, so that doesn't surprise me. He was a very skilled man.

However, belief does not offset provenance. So now, bust your butt seeking the provenance and you might hit a home run. If you can document the Loveless work, you can probably do well with it amongst Loveless collectors and/or gun collectors.
If you can get it into an auction attended by 3 S&W collectors that also collect Loveless knives, you might get real happy.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Take this for what it’s worth.
In 2005 I visited Bob Loveless at his home and shop. My friend (the late Brent Harp) was the only guy other than Jim Merritt to work in Bob’s shop and Brent took me to visit with Bob.
We talked guns, and Bob showed me a couple Triple Locks and modified Model 41s he had in the safe.
I don’t recall any specific mods on the TLs but Bob told me he modded most of his personal guns.

__________________
John

handejector - Thank you for the reply!

I am busting my butt as we speak to get more information/provenance on it. Hopefully, I can figure something out and get some more solid proof of it's history/worth.

JayCeeNC - Wow. Quite the opportunity. I didn't know about Bob until I got this revolver and now the more I learn the more I want to know.

I talked to someone today who told me Bob was known for the red front sight so that would help prove ownership on this one, but I'm still trying to dig to find out more. I also got a couple pics of knives that recently sold for $23,000 and $13,000 just in researching this revolver. Incredible looking knives. Would love to be able to get one someday.

Ralph, there are more knives out there than just Ginsu!

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Are you not walking a fine line with the gentleman that gifted you this gun? If you start asking him about proof and value isn’t that kind of insulting to him? He would probably be very disappointed (mad) if he thought you were going to sell it.

One minor detail in the note------that circa 1918-1919. It may very well not have shipped until then, but it was made in 1915 at the latest.

The Triple Lock is a great gun---tough to find fault with---with one not so minor fault in S&W's eyes---it didn't sell up to their expectations---and selling guns is what they were (and are) all about. As far as they were concerned, it was a total, rolling disaster from a commercial point of view. They figured the price ($21) was too high for the marketplace. The fix was to dump the third lock, and the ejector rod shroud. Problem solved!! New price: $19.

The Triple Lock lasted 7 years. Its successor was around for 22 years-----including the years following the 3rd Model.

An interesting tale about the 2nd Model: The last bunch (39 Targets) went out the door on May 14, 1940----all to a NYC distributor. They were billed at $17 each.(!!) Now the Registered Magnums cost S&W $17 each to build, so figure the .44 2nds cost them maybe $16 each----not a very profitable sale at $17---but when you gotta go, you gotta go!!

Ralph Tremaine

I thought about that, but have no intention in selling the gun and he’d be welcome to verify any time he wanted. To me, it was a really nice revolver. Then, when I sent pics to my buddy and he told me all about it, I got more interested in finding the history/worth. I even called him later and said, “You realize what you gave me, right?” He said he did and was fine with it.

Overall, I’m pretty upfront/transparent. I am an FFL so I even wonder if he’d expect me to try to sell it, but I have no interest in doing so.

I hesitate to say this, but, I can type up a page that would say Abe Lincoln did all the modifications.

Buy the revolver, not the story. If the story proves to be true, BONUS!!

Kevin

yes, I am slightly familiar with Bob Loveless.

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Even though it has been refinished, I have to say that is one of the nicest looking triple-locks I have seen in my time on this forum. Looks to me like whoever did the reblue really knew what they were doing, and did factory quality work.

The Bob Loveless provenance is just a bonus IMO. I would dearly LOVE to own that one, and to have it GIVEN to me as a free gift?!? SCORE!

Nobody could ask for any better than that! AWESOME!

__________________
Send lawyers, guns & money...

I promise I won’t keep “adding” to this but…..

I’d definitely try contacting Steve Johnson, (S.R. Johnson Knives.) He is, at least he was very approachable AND still alive. In 1971 he started grinding with Bob at the Lawndale shop. He continued after the move to Riverside until 1974. Johnson-Loveless knifes were some of the very best. Steve told me that he personally took the finished in the white guns/parts to another local shop get them blued. These were mostly Colt 1911 .45 Loveless conversions and there were very few of these. I’m assuming Riverside.

I strongly feel that if yours is what it is, it’s early. Jim Merritt, (1982 till Bob died in 2010,) talked to me about the 41’s exclusively but that’s what I called him about. If Loveless converted and owned yours someone if not many saw it. In his 14 July 1980 Sports Illustrated article/interview it was noted that he was eating his breakfast with a Colt .45 in front of him. I’ll bet he had converted it but that part was not noticed or mentioned.

Jim

All a statement from the donor, signed, and with a notarized signature is just that. I could write on a piece of paper that President Roosevelt gifted my great grandfather a particular revolver, and have it notarized, and the notary just affirms that I am the individual signing that piece of paper and that’s my signature. The story cannot be proven. As with this revolver. It’s a claim, there’s no proof that Bob Loveless ever owned this revolver. The donor could have just made up that story. Without definitive proof of ownership—a sales receipt, record of inventory, etc, it’s just a reblued and modified Triple Lock revolver and should be valued accordingly.

Maybe.
Maybe Not.
We all crave and admire Roper grips. However, I have never seen a pair that are marked with a trademark nor even a notarized letter that says they are Roper grips, but we accept them as genuine Ropers.
That is because we have examined enough of them to recognize the hand of Gagne. I mentioned above that I can see that the gun is hand polished. (I'm looking at a very large monitor) Even though well done, I can see which way his hand was traveling on most surfaces. If I could compare this gun, side by side with guns known to have been done by him, it would lend more probability that he did it, IF the same polishing was evident. Likewise, comparing widened hammers and that front sight to known work could lend credence. Add the possibility of photographs existing among Bob's effects, or memories of the gun by his close associates, and it is sometimes possible to add probability to possibility.
Maybe.
Maybe Not.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Lee is on to something here.

A photograph of this revolver with Bob Loveless, now this is credible provenance.

A Roper set of grips just looks and feels like it’s a set of Ropers. Of course , you never know “for sure”. But that’s not reworking of an existing object, such as a manufactured revolver.

This might be interesting to some of my fellow knife nuts.....Mr. Loveless was preeminent and groundbreaking in his knife designs. His drop point hunter is cited as changing the industry.

__________________
Even older, even crankier....

I’m going to take a contrarian stance here, and it might not prove popular.

This is a modified from original and reblued Triple Lock revolver, plain and simple. As you can see, Bob Loveless was a knife maker.

Bob Loveless - Wikipedia

Not a gunsmith. Plus, once you modify a revolver from original, it’s forever ruined. Who cares whether or not you ruined it forever, I did, Bob Loveless did, a skilled gunsmith did, or the Pope did, for that matter? I wouldn’t pay even a one cent premium over the value of this being a non factory reblued and modified Triple Lock revolver.

Others may value this revolver differently, for reasons not apparent to me.

So......with that stance......I suppose a King Super Target Triple Lock would be of ZERO interest to you......am I correct?

__________________
Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

That's fine. More goodies for the rest of us.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Well, we have things that interest us, and things that don’t. So, yes, given many other things float my boat, the interest in this is minimal. I have to pick & choose…I can’t have it all.

Elvis Presley was just a singer.....have you seen the price of his guns?

__________________
Even older, even crankier....

History has proven that the right name connected to an item can have great affect on its value. A Davis built PPC revolver, a Clark built Model 41, or maybe a Swenson 1911. This type of gun may not be your cup of tea but that does not mean that they don’t have a significant value. As mentioned earlier Loveless modified Model 41s bring a healthy price due to Bob’s skill in metal working. It’s fine to have a narrow focus in your collecting but you can’t allow that to carry over into someone else’s interests.

Elvis Presley is a household name. Plus, he was larger than life…and so are his guns.

EXACTLY - he may not like them or desire one, but you cannot ignore the demand in an item which equates to value. This is the same principle for any collectible (modified or famously owned aside).

__________________
Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

Personally, I am a huge fan of Bob's knives. I happen to own some very nice knives from several masters. Bob is one maker that I have yet to own an example from. A Loveless knife is a "grail" knife for many.They continue to climb in value every day. I would absolutely love to own one of Bob's knives. I would also say that the triple lock is my favorite Smith and Wesson. If I were allowed the opportunity, I would be ecstatic to own a Loveless modified triple lock. If Bob means something to you, then the revolver is priceless. If Bob is someone that you have to Google, then it is just a messed. up made over 44. If the gentleman who gifted it to you is special to you, then the 44 is again priceless. If that old big iron were in my collection, it would be shot, carried, and displayed with one of Bob's exceptional knives!

As others have suggested, that 44 would benefit from associated verification, even if it is only to benefit your children. You may be surprised as to what stories may be told about that wonderful piece. However, do not be surprised if there are none, andit is just another old fantastic hole punch.

__________________
Matthew Conrad

I had to Google Bob Loveless to even know about him. But I’m not a knife collector.

It seems that there are two things that need to be established to place any premium in value on this TripleLock. One is proof of ownership by Bob Loveless and the second would be proof that he performed the work on this gun. We do know from expert observation by experienced forum members that the work was expertly done by a skilled metal craftsman.
So at this point in time the OP has to establish this through irrefutable provenance.
Regardless it has provided a lot of stimulating dialogue and that's one triplelock any one of us would be glad to call his own whether you already have zero, one or ten.

I'm amazed that there are folks out there who have never heard of Bob Loveless. I started reading gun magazines in the late '60s and his knife designs were mentioned and photographed often.

While I realize I'm older than many here on the forum, Loveless blade and handle designs are still discussed in the media.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Per the factory letter, this Model 19-2 with a rare 5-inch barrel was made by S&W for Bob Loveless. It was shipped in August 1965. I did not know anything about him when I acquired this .357 Combat Magnum, but soon learned how highly sought after and expensive his knives were. Click on the photo for a better look.

Bill

I never heard of him. But I have never been a knife enthusiast. However once this thread was started I googled the name and got familiar.I guess I should have paying attention decades ago.

I am the guy who gave bravo2five the .44 Triple Lock. I'm not sure how I could prove that Bob gave me the gun, but here the story on my association with him: I first met Bob Loveless when he visited my camera shop in Long Beach, California sometime around 1980. He had called looking for information on a particular pair of Leitz binoculars (6x24 Amplivid), and was surprised that I knew what he was talking about and that I did have some information on them. Bob was always interested in binoculars and particularly Leitz products and he had a long time love of Leica cameras. Since I was a Leica dealer we had a lot in common to talk about and he visited my shop regularly up until I closed it in 2007, often spending a Saturday afternoon looking at cameras and having conversations with me and members of my staff, and customers. Bob was also very generous to his friends and once he gave me a S&W Model 41 that he had modified extensively. He later got it back from me and either gave or sold it to someone else.
We traveled to Switzerland together in 1992 and visited a number of Swiss machine tool makers including Schaublin. That was a trip to remember. I don’t remember if Bob gave me the Triple Lock .44 or traded for photographic stuff. I do remember he had it refinished by Mike's Gunsmiths in Long Beach. I hope this helps clear things up.

Is it possible that all of the modifications weren't actually done by Bob if the re-finish wasn't?

For whatever my two cents are worth, to me at least I would suspect that it was at least partially modified before he got it.

I've been looking at his knives and other modified guns, and I can say that he really made beautiful things. This Triple Lock is not.

I've been chatting about the gun with another forum member here and I have to say that I hate the gun. The blue job is all wrong, the polishing is unpleasant to me, the front sight is put in the wrong place, isn't the right shape, detracts from the lines of gun completely ruining the overall look. Wearing a set of post 67 target stocks is just the corn in the poop sandwich.

This gun evokes very strong feelings in me.

And then...the hammer. It's a work of beauty with the only flaw being its not yet case colored. Looking at his other work I can absolutely see him having made that hammer.

I don't care much for the front sight or the grips.

Otherwise, I like the TL!

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I accept the statement of mckay44.
If I was interested in the gun his statement would prove to me that the gun had belonged to Loveless.
I think for most of us, modifications to a Triple-Lock would decrease the value.
Whatever the value is I think would be enhanced to a Loveless fan.

__________________
David Reynolds

This seems to be a very common theme and kinda funny if it didn’t happen to you. Most people I talked to had a similar experience or knew someone who had that happen. Actually someone here on the Forum said they had to “give back” the Field Gun that Bob had gifted them.

I believe everything you have said. Thanks for the story.

Jim

Okay, so here’s positive proof this revolver was refinished by Mike’s Gunsmiths, and not Bob Loveless. Mckay44’s statement that Bob Loveless once owned this revolver can’t be proven definitively, but it really doesn’t matter as there are not high dollar stakes involved here. It’s a reblued revolver, not factory work, and modified, and should be valued as such. With the statement that “Oh, by the way, Bob Loveless once owned this revolver”. I would pay more for original ownership of a firearm by an individual that is a household name, like a President, or a renowned individual, or someone who is iconic in firearms—like Annie Oakley or Ed McGivern. An owner of a modified and reblued revolver, bought on the secondary market, becomes a neat story and not much else. There are thousands of firearms just like this one all across America.

Welcome to the forum mckay44 and bravo2five! Y'all have certainly made a splash here, hope you'll hang around. A gift from a friend is a treasure no matter what it is

__________________
PTLAPTA!