I've got a nice 19, 66, 67, 31, 13, 10 and on and on but last night was watching the movie FURY and thought: "now that's an interesting pistol" (( Pitts Colt Model 1917 )) and via google learned S&W made one as well, so off to the races I went trying to learn.
So, my brilliant fellow Smith fans if you were going to get one of these, what would you be looking for as a "let's get started piece"?????
For example, military marked or civilian, rough or semi-rough (since I assume the pristine ones are very expensive),etc, etc
My thanks in advance for your guidance

Brazilian 1917s are generally cheaper than WW I era us issued 1917s.

If you want a shooter, look for one with a good bore and make sure, if it is military, it has all of the markings on it, especially the serial number stamped on the butt.

Go here, scroll down half way to the 1917 section and read all the posts:


Notable Thread Index

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

At the risk of going off the reservation, I'd go with a Colt rather than a Smith.

A Smith 1917 is substantially the same as a commercial N frame of the same period. Nice finish and wood grips of the same style. The Colt is finished much more roughly than the New Service types and doesn't carry checkered wood or hard plastic grips. You might even find a real early one with the chambers bored through & through - a little different.

I have handled both a Colt and S & W 1917. Either makes for a nice addition to a collection but the DA pull on the Colt has to be experienced to be believed...must be 15+ pounds and gets heavier at the end of the trigger stroke. Yikes.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Plus the colt has those "wonderful" little v shaped spring.

The Brazilians used to be all over the place cheap. Those are usually a bit beat up but they are pretty rugged and still function well. The barrels never had very deep rifling and sources of replacements have dried up, so look at that.

A set of grips like that made in service style configuration would be fairly easy to make. Using some thick Lexan, get the 1/2 rounded part at the top right, then hold in place and scribe the outline of the frame, glue pictures of your favorite babe to the back. Then with the grip pin out use the frame as a guide to drill a shallow hole at that location and another matched set for the main grip screw/ Round edges and polish.

Pristine military examples are kind of steep because being built to serve a real need the finish was secondary, then most of them were issues and thee finish went down hill from there. But,, to me a finish worn one of these says may well have seen real war more than a pristine does

Oddly, I was also watching Fury yesterday.......and thought "What a nice S&W pistol he just used to shoot that SS guy".

But, then, I didn't stop the show, zoom into the scene, etc.

What say our movie weapons fans about his pistol?

Yup, he had a S & W 1917 Army.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Unleess you're a military collector, I'd vote for the commercial 1917s as used by a number of PDs. They are not as easily found as there weren't nearly as many of them. But there doesn't seem to be much price differential due to all the military issued gun collectors. JMHO and happy hunting...the chase is the best part!

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Randy
Provenance nerd

The asking prices for military 1917's are all over the place. Condition of course is everything, but there are some ridiculous prices out there for guns in only fair condition. I'm a huge fan of them. Both of these are totally original, and they are in very nice condition. The S&W may have never been issued, and is a much more refined gun than the Colt, which reflects the need to quickly produce guns for wartime needs. It also has a tractor pull double action, as mentioned above. They are really fun shooters, and it's very cool to shoot a piece of history.

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1917's can be found somewhat reasonably priced especially if they have been refinished like this Brazilian:





Or heavily modified like this Commercial:

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

They are an interesting minefield for sure, and still plenty of all-original guns with "been there" finish and wear. I would hunt one of those as finding a nearly mint example will be difficult.

This early example cost me less than $850 in 2021. Early guns will (usually) have concave (dished) grips and a grooved hammer.

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Psalm 27:2

I have a S&W 1917 that was badly polished and reblued. Who ever did the work decided the 'United States Property' marking on the bottom of the bbl had to go. Not uncommon to see that.
So that was filed off and not nicely. Leaving a rough flat area there.
The Govt insp mark(?) GHD? on the left upper side of the frame was nearly gone as well.
But it has a decent set of Service style checkered S&W grips (non-medallion). The bore ,,those pesky peppery pits here and there. Lock work very nice.
All for $240,,I thought the grips were nearly worth that.

So here I am in the middle of polishing the old gal back up.
Plenty of hours of hand work, the belt grinder doesn't get used much on a DA Revolver aside from the top strap and side plates. It does a great job on the cylinder however but you can ruin one in a few seconds as well.

Worth it,,No not really. About 25+ hours of polishing now.
The grips finished up nice and will need re-checkering.

Then what?. Just reblue it,,or maybe some engraving and then reblue it.
I could re-cut all the missing US markings, but there are plenty of orig revolvers still around. This one is nothing special. Alvin York didn't carry it AFAIK.
But I just can't let them be.

It's a nice project. Just another one to do and finish up. There are plenty more.
Better than sitting in front of the TV.

At one time we were all "know-nothings", so don't feel bad about asking questions.
As stated above by Sodacan, condition is everything, and prices are all over the place. My suggestion is to go with a S&W 1917 (this reflects my bias in favor of S&W over Colt in general terms). As for 'condition', get the best that you can afford. You will thank yourself later for getting a quality piece.
I have had many through the years and am down to owning two. One is an about mint USGI, and the other a well used Brazilian. They both serve me well; one for admiring and showing, and one to take to the range for pure shooting enjoyment. As for "value over time", the mint one has far surpassed the Brazilian in value accumulation. So, your reasons for ownership should play a big role in what you set your sights on to acquire. Then patience while researching prices and values of the ones that scratch your itch. It is very easy to overspend due to the wide spread in prices. You may do well placing a WTB listing here on the Forum.....
Eye candy is always good for motivating -
Here is the Brazilian range king (SN 191745 which I found pleasing as well):
Attachment 667898


And here is a USGI:
Attachment 667903

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NRA Endowment Member

Figure on spending the better part of $1000 to get a decent one, unless you find one at a local show or shop. Seems to me that even beaters are closed $800 based on what I see. The Smith will work without moon clips, not sure the colt will, something about how the chambers are reamed.

I have seen a few Brazilians and some pitted units down around $600 considering shipping, etc.

Here's one I got six years ago. I have a little over $500 in it after getting some proper grips on it. Those deals seem to be gone.

20200713_082546.jpg

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

Yes, by report the milled hammer is seen up to about SN 13000, and the concave upper stocks to about 25000.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Colts won't work without moon clips and are vastly harder to work on.
The Smiths will work without moon clips, you just have to pick the cases out.
In any case, buy a mooner-demooner tool. I like the BMT despite the cost.
The 1917 had very slight rifling, so it's common to see them basically a smoothbore by now. So if I were going to look at one to shoot, I'd check bore condition over most other criterion. In my experience because of the shallow rifling they shoot jacketed bullets much better than cast, of course the jacketed bullets also wear the comparatively soft and shallow rifling, so maybe don't expect a 1917 to be a great gun to shoot bullseye with.
I typically find the triggers to be heavy on the military guns, perhaps slightly better on the commercial and Brazilian guns.
I do think if you are going to get one to enjoy, the US-Property marked guns are just a lot more interesting as living history and for me that justifies the higher cost, but if you just want a shooter then save the money.
A 1917 was one of the Indiana Jones guns from the first movie, or rather a commercial one, so there's that angle as well.

This is another case of personal preference. I love the fact that my Model of 1917 is a WWI revolver from 1918. Did it see combat? Perhaps, but who knows for sure? But just the chance that its provenance includes service during the Great War in Europe is appealing to me. I feel fortunate that I got this from my lgs ten years ago for less than $700. Is the S&W 1917 a better revolver than the Colt? I think so, but again, that's just my opinion. Mine is a great shooter and occasionally goes to the range with its .45 ACP brothers. There are still plenty of nice Model of 1917 revolvers out there. You might even want to advertise in the Forum's "Want to Buy" section and see what happens. Good luck with your search.

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1917 S&Ws also had smooth walnut grips, not the checkered service grips. .455 S&Ws DID ship to the Brits with checkered grips.



Colts won't work without moon clips and are vastly harder to work on.


The early Colt 1917s did have straight bored cylinders that required the use of the half-moon clips. It is my understanding that Colt replaced most of these cylinders with chambered cylinders. Over the years, I've looked at a number of Colt 1917s and have never encountered one that was straight bored.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

These two have been my favorite way to send some 45 acp downrange. The Brazilian was a "pitted" bargain years ago. The Colt (arsenal refinish black parkerization) is not bored through and will shoot just fine without clips as does the S&W. There is no quicker reload for a revolver than these with the full moon clips. Both shoot dead on to point of aim. The Colt pull is HEAVY as has been mentioned. If I was fighting in a WW1 trench and ran out of ammo for my 1917, I'd want it to be the COLT. It would make the much better CLUB !

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Y. B. Ord & A. Ree

I've had this Brazilian for about 45 years now. Back when I was newly married and working at the LGS, I decided I wanted to collect me some Smith & Wessons. So, I started gathering a few, mostly NIB guns in nickel. I had a presentation cased 6" M27, a 4" M19, a M39, and a 4" SB M34, along with this ratty old 1917.

And then the babies came, and, long story as short as possible at this point, most of my guns went to pay for diapers and food and rent and such. I did, however, manage to keep the Brazilian, mostly because it didn't have much value at that time. As old Smiths go, it's still not all that valuable by comparison, but it's stayed with me all these years, and it will always have an honored spot in my safe.

IMG_5135.jpg

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Ain't This Fun Though?

Sold my only 1917 to a really good friend a couple years ago. Serial #136.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Tim
SWCA #2697

The '17 is just a hoot to shoot. Mine cost $850, '18 production with all the US markings and a patina finish. It locks up tight and loves my 180 grain plated flat point reloads.

I wish it could tell me it's story.

I have both a Colt and a Smith. The Smith is a post war Brazilian. Both were refinished in a prior life.

The Colt is big hunk of steel, a good size larger than the Smith. The double action on the Colt is quite heavy, supposedly they were meant to be that way.

Neat pieces of history that don't get shot much.

This is one I picked up last year. It is one of approximately 1000 that were assembled from the thousands of parts S&W bought back from the US Army. Mine was shipped October 1947. S210461

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True on the earlier Colt 1917s, the chambers were bored all the way through. Later Colts were properly chambered. Mine is 1918 and chambers/extracts ACP with moon clips fine.

A 1917 bored all the way through is a great excuse to start reloading for the 45 AR.

I knew nothing about the 1917 when I bought mine at a local auction 8 years ago. I only bought it because the bidding was low and the revolver I wanted went too high. It had been refinished by some previous owner which didn’t bother me at the OTD price of $350. A commercial model made in late 1920s or early 1930s. A great shooter. They are solid revolvers.
In the movie “The Highwaymen” the exTexas ranger played by Kevin Costner buys one along with other firearms at a gun store prior to going after Bonnie and Clyde.

Hope you find one.

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There's also a nice (but not mint) example at the National Infantry Museum in Columbus, GA just outside Ft. Moore (Ft. Benning until recently). In the WWI section, of course. Prrrrrrrrrrobably not for sale

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Psalm 27:2

Staff Sergeant Don "Wardaddy" Collier (Brad Pitt) carries a Smith & Wesson M1917 revolver with custom plexiglass "sweetheart" grips as his sidearm throughout the film. He is notably seen using this revolver to coax Norman Ellison (Logan Lerman) into killing a German soldier.

Fury (2014) - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games

The 1917 stayed in S&W production until 1966 as the Model 22. It is also known as the Model 45 Army prior to the Model Numbers.

I had the Brazilian from1937. At one time it was a third to half the price of a 1917. Decent shooter and I preferred to reload 45 Auto Rim instead of messing with the moon clips. One big upside with moon clips is that it will shoot Hollow Points without any issues whereas autoloaders tend to jam with JHPs in the 1970s and 1980s.

It depends on your budget. The Brazilian is still the cheapest out there. For me I would consider a mint commercial model. I know of a LAPD 1917 Commercial made in 1929 at $4750.

There was a picture of a marine in front of a south pacific cave with a Smith 1917 . If I remember correctly it's was in the NRA magazine.

I love my Brazilian model. The action is wonderful. A real pleasure to shoot. And curiosity factor at the range is cool too.

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To me there are 2 questions that need to be answered before a real answer can be posted.

1) Are you wanting a collector piece or a shooter?

2) What is your price range?

As others have stated, as always, price and condition typically go hand in hand. A beat up shooter grade will be less than a pristine collector gun with early concave stock tops and grooved hammer. Smooth stocks were the norm on the early guns without checking.

As to whether one should buy a Smith or a Colt, that almost falls into the category of blaspheme.

You want a Smith of course.......Colt is a 4 letter word.

(I only had time to read page 1 so forgive if this was addressed on page 2)

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James Redfield
LM #497

They are cool revolvers. I lucked into one years ago. 1918 production and fully British proof marked. It came into my possession with I believe original grips. I’ve got them bagged up and put a set of Sambar Stag service grips on it. The barrel is actually in decent shape. I usually shoot 200gr SWC loads and it does alright.



I wish it could tell me it’s story……

Another thing to mention re: Fury and Hollywood in general. Revolvers have long been a favorite of directors since they look better on film than matte black autos; they have more complex angles/reflections and simply stand out better. A 6" medium or large framed revolver is considerably larger than even a "duty" sized auto like a 1911 or Glock 17. The Desert Eagle had a nice run for many of the same reasons (big and not slab sided) but isn't nearly as iconic now as it was from the mid 1980s through the early 2000s.

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Psalm 27:2

I have both a Colt and a S&W Model 1917 as well as a 1937 Brazilian. If you leave them unaltered, the Brazilian is by far the best shooter, because it has the improved square notch rear sight adopted by S&W after M1917 production had ceased.

So for all of you kind folks---that has given me much to think about (( bought a 586 no dash this weekend in nickel so I'll have to replenish the coffers before going 1917 shopping - but at least now I won't go out like some ignorant babe in the woods ))
But if I might partially return the favor to all of you that responded---
If you really want WARDADDY's gun from FURY, I saw where it might be available ---need to check with the administrators of this site before I say anymore --- consider this forum way too valuable to ever violate a rule I may be unaware of

I find it's much easier on the wallet to take good deals as they come, even if they're not exactly your cup of tea. You'll either grow to like them, or they make great trade fodder for someone with a more targeted mindset (and bank account to support it).

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Psalm 27:2

S&W's 1937 (1st contract) had the square notch, but IIRC, the 2nd contract (1946) vast number were rounded as they were made using left over frames from the 1917 model. Not to argue or contest your statement but of the several models I've had of 1917's, both military and commercial, as well as Brazil models, both 1st & 2nd contract, accuracy was negligible between them all.

A Model 1917 that was parkerized for WWII will cost less than a WWI original.



Colt accepted by the US Army June 1918
S&W accepted by the US Army November 1918

The double action trigger on the Colt is well over the 12 pound limit of my trigger pull gauge. The Colt is bigger, heavier, and less elegant IMHO. I found the Colt in a pawn shop around 15 years ago and paid $825. I didn’t find the Smith & Wesson until last year. I paid almost twice as much and believe I got a good deal.

Some years back, got a near-pristine S&W M1917. Looks almost unissued.
Concave grips, but no grooved hammer. Came from a friend who had little interest in such hardware. A check with S&W Historian Roy Jinks showed a ship-date of February 1918.
It literally became my ONLY 'safe queen'.

I set about to locate a 'stand-in shooter' and found a Brazilian M1937 for about $200 from another friend. It had been Parkerized long before and has been a great shooter and woods gun.
I enjoy loading and shooting mostly .45 AR rounds in it with 250 gr LSWC's and LSWC-HP's.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

I'll mention a couple of them: My good friend and former forum member Leland had one he inherited from his uncle. The uncle took it with him when he shipped over to Europe during WWII. His was a S&W 1917 and Leland's uncle was carrying it when he was killed in the Hurtgen (SP?) Forest during the battle of the bulge. Somehow the 1917 and other personal stuff made it back to his family near Poplarville, Ms. after his death. Leland had known about the 1917 since he was a kid and kept up with who had it. It was gifted to Leland by a family member when Leland was still in his 20's. Fast forward a few years and Leland passed away March 2020 at age 65. In his will he left my son Robert the 1917 and several hundred rounds of auto rim reloads. It's not going anywhere probably for a few more decades. One vote for the S&W.

Back in the early 70's (I started in 1969) when I was a rookie officer and knew little about handguns I became close friends with a Detective who was a gun guy, armorer, machinist, mechanic, and a lot of other handy stuff. 1917's were plentiful, Colt and S&W. Lots of folks tinkered with them, including my friend Det. George. He bought a S&W 1917 cheap at a local gun store who had a lot of them. They were ugly and nobody wanted them, kind of like the Victory models. Det. George took his and rounded the butt, shortened the barrel to 2", had it nickeled, did a smooth action job on it, and put some real pretty old stag grips on it. This was over 50 years ago. We don't butcher guns like that now...I hope. We had to furnish our own back then and that was Det. George's duty gun. He carried it with personally loaded hollow point auto rim backed up by several full moon clips. Another vote for S&W.

I started LE career as a reserve deputy doing an internship with the local sheriff's office. My only po-leese type sidearm at the time was a 1911 .45 ACP. The chief deputy always gave me a dirty look every time he saw that pistol; it probably had something to do with the large hole in the top of his desk. BTW, the deputy who shot the chief's desk is now the high sheriff in that county.

Well, I went down to my gun pusher and bought a re-blued S&W 1917. The chief deputy was much happier to see me after that purchase.

I wound up selling that 1917 in order to buy a M27-2 3 1/s". Later that year, the .357 became a .44 Special conversion.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Spoke to my local leather smith. I was able to find a pattern for the holster from Fury and am having one made.

As others have said if you can find a Brazilian one probably going to be cheaper. I lucked into a early 1917 with early features dished stocks, and grooved hammer many years ago my second big bore N frame Smith. but not my last good luck on your search.

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Randy

The Model 22 was a short action revolver. The Model 1917 had the old long action. There were also different hammer block safeties.

The Model 45 was a 22 caliber K frame.

I still enjoy my Brazilian Models. I have a couple from both contracts. My favorite is this modified one.





This was from the post war contract built on the found frames, barrels and small parts from WW I. I carried it before, when, and after I wore a badge. It has been replaced by a Model 22-4 but it is still doing duty in the house.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Well, since you posted a modified one I guess I'll post my modified and somewhat ratty old Brazilian...

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

You can dispense with the awful moon clips if you load these:





After searching for a long time, and nothing met expectations or price, I purchased this S&W 22-4 Classic re-issue from a forum member:



If you find a load it likes, revolver shoots pretty well offhand: