OK Gentlemen...Victory and Victory holster experts, come on in and solve this mystery

OK, where to start this mystery...I recently bought a S&W 4 inch victory at a local auction. I will be picking it up this upcoming week. It is 4 inch, parkerized with original finish, but needs original grips. So, I am now on the lookout for an original holster to complete the gun.

I happen on a small group of holsters on Ebay...In this group, I spot a probable original US Navy flap holster among the others. Also included was a nice shoulder holster with a name written on it, but that's all I noticed at the time from the Ebay picture...I made an informal offer, the seller took the offer and today, I received the holsters...All looks good when I got them out of the box, which is where the mystery starts.

On the shoulder holster, there is an older handwritten name printed "J.C. Strobel" with an older stylized "swoosh" handwritten below the name. What I didn't see in the auction picture was more writing above and below the name... The full writing states" "LIEUT. J. C STROBEL USNR". The name is also printed on one of the shoulder straps in the same font. At that point, I start to wonder since the shoulder holster was marked as being owned by a Navy Officer, that the shoulder holster and the Victory holster may have come from the same sailor? I suspected so, and I know the seller didn't even know that the flap holster was a USN WW2 holster because it had no markings on front like the "US" marked ones.

So...I start searching Newspapers.com where I have a subscription...I can't make a definitive link because "J.C" may have been listed as "Lieutenant Jack C. Strobel" or "Lt. John Christopher Strobel", etc. So then I simply google the full name and, viola...I find it.

Not only do I find the name, but I find the EXACT holsters listed as being sold with a U.S. Navy marked Victory model V91059, which sold at auction in 2022 for $1475. I compared the auction pic and the holsters I have and they are the same holsters.

My question is how could these holsters be stuck with a pile of other holsters sold on Ebay for peanuts when they were sold a year and a half ago with a $1500 Victory? I can understand nobody looking at the flap holster and knowing what it was, but how could these have gotten separated from the original gun which sold less than two years ago? The seller I bought them from didn't know what they were, with the exception of one reproduction 1911 shoulder holster which was in the mix.

Here is the link to the original page and then my photos of the holsters I received today and the holster lot I bought them in on Ebay.

Smith & Wesson S&W Navy Victory Model .38 Spl 4″ WWII DA/SA Revolver C&R | Lock, Stock & Barrel

It looks like the auction house went through GunBroker to sell the gun/holster set. From the date I can see in the inspected tag address of the picture, it was from a 2022 auction... I checked Gunbroker closed auctions and they don't go back far enough to list anything in 2022.

My questions are this:

1) How could the holsters be separated from the gun this quickly aside from a death of the new buyer and heirs not knowing one went with the other?

2) Even if the new Victory owner didn't want the named holsters that came with the $1500 gun, (which would baffle me in the first place), why would they sell them in a $50 grouping of miscellaneous other holsters?

3) Who is Lieutenant J.C. Strobel and when and where did he serve?

Any opinions, thoughts or musings would be appreciated.

ETA...The seller is a female and she is apparently an estate sale "picker" in Simi Valley California...The 2022 auction for the gun and holsters set was in California as well. Here's the Ebay holster auction link that I won that shows all of the group that the holsters were in:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/226016627785

The story of a Heiser holster being separated from a Colt Official Police.
The owner didn't consider them a set and sold them separately.

It's expensive, but Newspapers.com has proven to be a terrific resource.

https://smith-wessonforum.com/gun-l...-510-deja-vu.html?highlight=Major+John+Irving

Strangely enough, the shoulder holster also has to be WW2 era as the maker is stamped "A.H Hardy Beverly Hills CA"...Apparently a well known trick shooter, marksman and holster maker for Hollywood movie stars...He apparently was born in 1876, retired from leathercraft in 1941 and died in 1950...He was a pallbearer for Buffalo Bill Cody.

From a couple of sources:

"A.H. (Capt.) Hardy was a world famous sharpshooter and was a pallbearer for Buffalo Bill Cody, in Denver Colorado. He began learning leatherwork in Omaha Nebraska at the age of 17. Wherever he lived he always had his leathershop with him, making saddles, holsters, purses, anything leather. In Beverly Hills he worked with the studios as a technical director and teaching actors how to shoot. Actors he worked with included Tom Nix, Fred Stone, Clark Gable, William S. Hart, Andy Devine, Fred MacMurry and others. He also made custom holsters for them. In the 1935 movie Annie Oakley his daughter Kathryn did the shooting for Barbara Stanwyck, who played Annie, and Hardy for Preston Foster who played Toby Walker..."

Lots of possible explanations. Buyer of the gun/holster set in 2022 wasn't interested in the leather gear, got broken up/sold in an estate sale (likely) or divorce, sold or traded the gun and lost the holsters to include in the deal.

You'd think someone spending $1500 for the package would have been more careful to keep it all together, but life (or death) happens, even to gun collectors.

I'm guessing the buyer in 2022 passed on between then and now. The gun got sold by the family who didn't realize that the holsters belonged with the gun. They may have sold the gun for far less than the $1500 too not knowing the value if "dad" didn't leave records. Happens often I think. Then they had an estate auction and the holsters, and more, were picked up for little or nothing by the estate sale "picker." I see this stuff show up in pawnshops more often then you might expect. If some of us passed on tomorrow, would our families have a clue as to values and what went with what? I've left a few notes. . . .but not nearly enough.

And then there's this: "Don't let my wife sell this stuff for what I told her it cost."

Just be happy you got it.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

More info

Thanks guys for the insight and what 22hipower and murphydog said I believe is true....It just doesn't stand to reason that these would have been knowingly separated and sold in that short period of time for so little money. Come to think of it, there are several dozen things I have that my wife would have no idea what went with what when the inevitable happens to me...Something to think about for sure.

I also found out about the original owner of the victory and these holsters. In doing a little more research, I found that John C. Strobel was a US Naval Aviator during WW2 and then became a instructor pilot in Korea:

John Strobel Obituary (2003) - Fort Wayne, IN - Fort Wayne Newspapers

If you look closely at his gravestone, you'll notice the Naval aviator wings engraved on the stone above his name. He died in 2003 and was born in 1915.

Shame that V91059 didn't go with the holsters though...It may come up on here or in the database eventually.

I really enjoy finding anything that can be directly linked to those greatest generation heroes of WWII and Korea, any military service for that matter. You might find more by checking the Commander's military records, you can do that with a records request to DOD. Sometimes a wealth of information surfaces. I spent many hours researching a Registered Magnum that belonged to an Army Colonel who served in WWI, WWII and Korea. If you haven't seen it before you might enjoy reading my post from a few years ago which might give you some ideas on further researching Commander Strobel. Enjoyed your post, thanks much.

First Registered Magnum - S&W Letter Received

Jeff
SWCA #1457

It's amazing the things that we discover as non-related casual observers when we are only sparked by the interest of acquiring something. You have to wonder if the family or descendants had any idea of the history or exploits of the member before "cashing" out his belongings.
My brother was laid out for quite some time due to a work related injury that led to disability and during that time period utilizing the FOI act, & other resources conducted an intensive family history & discovered many things about my grandfather that we never knew about. Unfortunately there was no one else from that generation still alive to get an oral history from, so we had to depend on "official records".
In any event getting back to the subject on hand, I have observed on many an occasion how we as strangers have found amazing stories actually Facts about people from research.
As collectors/accumulators it's the chase that makes it all worthwhile and ties everything together.
In the end we are only custodians of these "toys" until they pass to the next generation...

Sorry to say I didn't follow the link to the holster auction to see the Hardy mark.

Further research from Red and Turneriver found that Hardy was closely connected to Heiser, although to what degree is not certain. Designer for sure. Many Hardy and Heiser holsters are identical in design - as with the shoulder holster - with some Hardy's bearing Heiser markings. In any case, our esteem for Captain Hardy rose considerably.

Hardy is best known today for the "Hardy-Cooper" shoulder holster promoted by Jeff Cooper. (Cooper added a belt loop - a feature on many other shoulder holsters, but not on the Hardy or Heiser.) Cooper likely knew Hardy pre-WWII.

Red or John may jump in here to correct me on some details.

Victory

Well, here is the Victory that will eventually find its way into the holsters that I bought....It is a 4 inch, .38 Special ordnance bomb marked...Parkerized finish is worn, but i am going to have it professionally reparkerized once it arrives and I assess all functions. I got it for around $550 total with BGC shipping and tax.

That may seem a little high on here, but US Victory 4 inchers in .38 Special are just not cheap anywhere around me...Frankly, they are not easy to find either. This one just has a tired original finish and needs grips and the lanyard ring replaced, which is a fairly easy fix and seems o be a common thing done to surplus Victories in the 1950's..I think a poster in this thread has one or both and when I get the gun, I'll see what direction I need to go. I think with a carefully done repark, and this holster set and an original cotton/duck lanyard and some ammo it will be nice. At least it wasn't cut on or nickeled, but if it had been, I wouldn't have bought it probably.

Serial number is V159236, so that should put it early war I would imagine.

I was thinking it was this guy, but it says he was Army.

Obituary information for John "J.C." Strobel

glenwolde said:

I was thinking it was this guy, but it says he was Army.

Obituary information for John "J.C." Strobel

Click to expand...

Yes, I saw him first, but I was 90% sure it wasn't him because of the shoulder holster having "LIEUT" and "USNR" hand inscribed on it, I was leaning heavily toward the owner being a naval aviator.

Maybe more likely:

John Strobel Obituary (2003) - St. Petersburg, Florida - Tampa Bay Times

glenwolde said:

Maybe more likely:

John Strobel Obituary (2003) - St. Petersburg, Florida - Tampa Bay Times

Click to expand...

Yes, that's him...See above obituary/grave marker.

pic of Commander Strobel

It just so happens that "Unite the USA", a patriotic civic group posted a picture and tribute to Commander Strobel, (Lieutenant Strobel when he carried these Victory and shoulder holsters), on Twitter a while back.

I am going to attempt to see if Family member are willing to share anything about him.

Great story, thanks for sharing.